YoloinOhio Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 The #BillsMafia @TheBillsMafia 15m15 minutes ago At the blog, @jaytdehart charted C.J. Spiller's rushing attempts to find why he's struggling. http://famba.se/Zq5zuW
Manther Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) So it goes when you inherit a specialty player leftover from a prior regime. But IMO, it's on Spiller to prove he's more than a speciality player and he simply hasn't. His skill set is far too narrow. That is a good point. But, I still don't think Hackett uses his players well or puts them in positions to succeed. Hackett is not NFL caliber. And, since Marrone doesn't correct him Marrone is just as much at fault. Also, how can Marrone previously be on O line coach and O lineman and for not one but two years the O line is below average. The continued trend I see with Marrone is he is not a strong student of the game and seems to be a poor teacher too. Terrible combo skill set. Edited October 14, 2014 by Manther
GG Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 I agree with you, and I have ripped spiller for that run. However, seeing it again-- chandler got blown up. If chandler doesn't get pushed 3 yards backward at the snap, then maybe spiller keeps it inside. But that's what people talk about instinct & vision. He doesn't trust the inside to be there because Chandler is driven back, so he kicks it outside only to have the same guy who bulldozed Chandler hit him for a 3 yard loss. If he hits the original hole with his speed, it's at worst a 2 yard gain, and potentially bigger. I'm guessing the All-22 review of this play will be ugly.
bobobonators Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 The #BillsMafia @TheBillsMafia 15m15 minutes ago At the blog, @jaytdehart charted C.J. Spiller's rushing attempts to find why he's struggling. http://famba.se/Zq5zuW Great post. NH call a sweep? That's blasphemy.
Wayne Cubed Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 Great post. NH call a sweep? That's blasphemy. No offense to you, because you didn't write the piece, but this 'bloggers' solution is to run sweeps? Ok, and that'll work for a total of 2 weeks tops and then defenses will figure out thats all their doing with Spiller. So then what? Spiller has to be able to run inside to establish the outside runs. Keep defenses honest. In fact, I'd argue that defense know Spiller can't run inside and therefore hope that he kicks it out, which doesn't and hasn't worked. I just don't buy that Spiller can't be an at least somewhat effective inside runner when guys like McCoy and Charles.
NoSaint Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 Great post. NH call a sweep? That's blasphemy. we have our 3rd WR benched for a 3rd TE to stick to a game plan, our top 2 DEs off the field for normal rotations late in the 4th to stick to a game plan, instead of finding packages to play to players strengths we want them to do everything well and do not adjust to be able to stick to a game plan, etc.... i think im picking up a trend there. i expected the offense to be a lot more creative, flexible etc.... but im not seeing it and that might be a big part of why we havent seen any offensive players show progress the last 2 years...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 Hackett not properly using Spiller, Jackson, Watkins, Mike Williams, etc., etc, etc. Wake me when it's over.
NoSaint Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 No offense to you, because you didn't write the piece, but this 'bloggers' solution is to run sweeps? Ok, and that'll work for a total of 2 weeks tops and then defenses will figure out thats all their doing with Spiller. So then what? Spiller has to be able to run inside to establish the outside runs. Keep defenses honest. In fact, I'd argue that defense know Spiller can't run inside and therefore hope that he kicks it out, which doesn't and hasn't worked. I just don't buy that Spiller can't be an at least somewhat effective inside runner when guys like McCoy and Charles. i think what hes arguing is you use the perimeter to set up those interior runs - if you have a back that does well in space, and your best blocker at LT -- why not lean heavy on that and have the runs behind your guards be the more rare of the two plays (and use some element of surprise to help the back and blockers in their weakest area). spiller can be effective but it wont be his bread and butter.
Wayne Cubed Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) i think what hes arguing is you use the perimeter to set up those interior runs - if you have a back that does well in space, and your best blocker at LT -- why not lean heavy on that and have the runs behind your guards be the more rare of the two plays (and use some element of surprise to help the back and blockers in their weakest area). spiller can be effective but it wont be his bread and butter. Could he be effective? I don't think he see's the holes in the middle or doesn't trust his blockers so he bounces it outside. If it's called up the middle, he needs to run up the middle. If the calls up the middle, to keep the defense honest, and he keeps bouncing it outside then how are sweeps going to work? And what does that say when this "dynamic" player can only run one type of run or play? Edited October 14, 2014 by Wayne Cubed
NoSaint Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 Could he be effective? I don't think he see's the holes in the middle or doesn't trust his blockers so he bounces it outside. If it's called up the middled, he needs to run up the middle. If the calls up the middle, to keep the defense honest, and he keeps bouncing it outside then how are sweeps going to work? because if the defense isnt keying on him going up the middle like 50% of carries it might not be as muddled in there. plus sometimes he SHOULD bounce it outside too. it wont always work but neither will running into the blockers backs when nothing is there. hes not jerome bettis - whats special for him isnt turning no gain into 2 yards with power, its his agility and speed that will find him extra yards last up, if we get him reliable inside blocking, odds are he would be more apt to trust it.
Big Gun Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 Yes if a pro running back doesn't have it in him do something as BASIC as run between the tackles it's the OC's fault. How is it that Bills fans can't understand the disconnect between railing on the "Pop Warner" scheme and giving the players' a pass for being unable to execute it? That answer is obvious, it's a lot of loud mouth blow hard know nothings that think they know everything. Watch who attacks me and you will have your answer.
Wayne Cubed Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 because if the defense isnt keying on him going up the middle like 50% of carries it might not be as muddled in there. plus sometimes he SHOULD bounce it outside too. it wont always work but neither will running into the blockers backs when nothing is there. hes not jerome bettis - whats special for him isnt turning no gain into 2 yards with power, its his agility and speed that will find him extra yards last up, if we get him reliable inside blocking, odds are he would be more apt to trust it. I would say his bouncing it outside, just from observation, doesn't work at all for him, ever. He runs laterally instead of cutting it up back inside. For example: https://vine.co/v/OKUu0DaiEWY If he cuts that back inside, he gets 3 maybe 4 yards. What's he keep doing? Running laterally. Is it not possible that defenses, knowing bouncing outside doesn't work for him, want him to be forced to the outside, where CB's and Safeties (who are faster than LB's) can track him down. And he is horrible after contact, so all the CB or Safety has to do is tie him up.
The Big Cat Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 i think what hes arguing is you use the perimeter to set up those interior runs - if you have a back that does well in space, and your best blocker at LT -- why not lean heavy on that and have the runs behind your guards be the more rare of the two plays (and use some element of surprise to help the back and blockers in their weakest area). spiller can be effective but it wont be his bread and butter. I'm not buying it. Sorry, but your theory relies on the assumption that, as it is, something has to be schemed to open up the middle. By and large, this is not the case. I don't believe that all the jet sweeps in the world will help CJ suddenly find/hit a crease between the tackles.
simpleman Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) Whenever you criticize Hackett, someone insults you and says "why aren't you an NFL coach?". Implying you don't know anything. Well it does not take the skills and knowledge of a NFL PRO coach to see that Hackett refuses to believe that good coaches tailor their playbook and their calls to use the players they have to maximize their strengths and abilities and mask their weaknesses. As others on the site have mentioned, he continues to try to force square pegs into round holes. Hackett's downfall is his arrogance, ego and inflexability to accept that he can not make square pegs fit round holes even after he fails to do so repeatedly. He is not an unintelligent man, he just refuses to change. He is too arrogent and stubborn to adapt and change. He believes if he just keeps trying over and over again, the results will somehow change in his favor. They won't. And Marrone backs him. The whole coaching staff seems infected with a sense of arrogance and inflexability, even Schwartz is the same way, he just has better players that mask his weaknesses and bad decisions. They all seem to believe that they know better than anyone else, reguardless of the results of their decisions. The Bills have the players with enough talent this year to at least make the playoffs, but the coaching staff is actually holding them back. Edited October 14, 2014 by simpleman
The Big Cat Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 Whenever you criticize Hackett, someone insults you and says "why aren't you an NFL coach?". Implying you don't know anything. Well it does not take the skills and knowledge of a NFL PRO coach to see that Hackett refuses to believe that good coaches tailor their playbook and their calls to use the players they have to maximize their strengths and abilities and mask their weaknesses. As others on the site have mentioned, he continues to try to force square pegs into round holes. Hackett's downfall is his arrogance, ego and inflexability to accept that he can not make square pegs fit round holes even after he fails to do so repeatedly. He is not an unintelligent man, he just refuses to change. He is too arrogent and stubborn to adapt and change. He believes if he just keeps trying over and over again, the results will somehow change in his favor. They won't. And Marrone backs him. The whole coaching staff seemes infected with a sense of arrogance and inflexability, even Schwartz is the same way, he just has better players that mask his weaknesses and bad decisions. They all seem to believe that they know better than anyone else, reguardless of the results of their decisions. The Bills have the players with enough talent this year to at least make the playoffs, but the coaching staff is actually holding them back. If we're going to call running between the tackles a "round hole" let's at least acknowledge it's a round whole with a diameter of 20 feet, and--at worst--a square peg of an NFL running back should be a "square peg" with sides of 8 inches. I simply don't understand this analogy as it pertains to RUNNING UP THE MIDDLE OF THE !@#$ING FIELD. It's not like he's asking CJ to play left !@#$ing tackle. The so-called round hole is the most basic !@#$ing thing a square peg could possibly be asked to do.
GG Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 Whenever you criticize Hackett, someone insults you and says "why aren't you an NFL coach?". Implying you don't know anything. Well it does not take the skills and knowledge of a NFL PRO coach to see that Hackett refuses to believe that good coaches tailor their playbook and their calls to use the players they have to maximize their strengths and abilities and mask their weaknesses. As others on the site have mentioned, he continues to try to force square pegs into round holes. Hackett's downfall is his arrogance, ego and inflexability to accept that he can not make square pegs fit round holes even after he fails to do so repeatedly. He is not an unintelligent man, he just refuses to change. He is too arrogent and stubborn to adapt and change. He believes if he just keeps trying over and over again, the results will somehow change in his favor. They won't. And Marrone backs him. The whole coaching staff seemes infected with a sense of arrogance and inflexability, even Schwartz is the same way, he just has better players that mask his weaknesses and bad decisions. They all seem to believe that they know better than anyone else, reguardless of the results of their decisions. The Bills have the players with enough talent this year to at least make the playoffs, but the coaching staff is actually holding them back. If you're referring to my comment, please read the full post. The square peg in a round hole is related to Spiller's role in this offense and Spiller's inability to be anything but a highly situational player. If he had the ability that Bush, Charles, McCoy, etc show that he can carry a bigger load, then it would make sense to design an offense around him. But he benefited from Gailey's offenses that featured more spread formations because of the personnel the Bills had at the time. That's why I posed the question of whether it makes sense for Hackett to change the entire offense for one player, when the rest of the team may not be suited for it?
FireChan Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 If we're going to call running between the tackles a "round hole" let's at least acknowledge it's a round whole with a diameter of 20 feet, and--at worst--a square peg of an NFL running back should be a "square peg" with sides of 8 inches. I simply don't understand this analogy as it pertains to RUNNING UP THE MIDDLE OF THE !@#$ING FIELD. It's not like he's asking CJ to play left !@#$ing tackle. The so-called round hole is the most basic !@#$ing thing a square peg could possibly be asked to do. Yep. This is like if we had a QB who couldn't hit short accurate throws across the middle. "That's not his game." He better make it a part of his game.
Wayne Cubed Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) I'm not buying it. Sorry, but your theory relies on the assumption that, as it is, something has to be schemed to open up the middle. By and large, this is not the case. I don't believe that all the jet sweeps in the world will help CJ suddenly find/hit a crease between the tackles. Something has to be schemed to open the middle, for only one RB on the team. A running back so dynamic and special he's the only one who can't figure out how to run the ball up the middle. Edited October 14, 2014 by Wayne Cubed
The Big Cat Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) That's why I posed the question of whether it makes sense for Hackett to change the entire offense for one player, when the rest of the team may not be suited for it? And I say it makes no sense whatsoever. Those who want to point to CJ's above average 2012 season miss the much larger point. To achieve those above average numbers, he was used as a counter measure while the rest of the offense was a set up. This is the "space" that everyone is clamoring for. It was produced by using everything else as a decoy. It worked brilliantly...resulting in above average production from Spiller. So let's go over how Hackett should "use" Spiller. He should set up an entire offense that's sole purpose is to setup using Spiller...on a limited basis...so he can put up above average numbers. Is that what posters want? Do people really think that makes sense? Edited October 14, 2014 by The Big Cat
NoSaint Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 I'm not buying it. Sorry, but your theory relies on the assumption that, as it is, something has to be schemed to open up the middle. By and large, this is not the case. I don't believe that all the jet sweeps in the world will help CJ suddenly find/hit a crease between the tackles. im saying it will help create creases and less blocking failures potentially. he did well when we spread the offense to create those creases in the past.
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