K-9 Posted October 15, 2014 Posted October 15, 2014 yea - i think there is a little fault for both sides probably, realistically. we dont know the story, but im guessing shared blame as itd be odd if it was NOTHING. I promise im not inherently pro-player, anti-team..... but something about the trend the last year or so i think makes me uneasy about simply giving marrone the benefit of the doubt on his decisions. How is Marrone to "blame" for benching a player? Isn't that his right as a coach? Isn't it the player's responsibility to accept coaching decisions, whether he agrees with them or not? Whether the fans agree or not? It's no more complicated that MW being dissatisfied. There's no "blame" to be assigned here. But MW's reaction is not what I'd want out of a player. Ever. GO BILLS!!!
GG Posted October 15, 2014 Posted October 15, 2014 How is Marrone to "blame" for benching a player? Isn't that his right as a coach? Isn't it the player's responsibility to accept coaching decisions, whether he agrees with them or not? Whether the fans agree or not? It's no more complicated that MW being dissatisfied. There's no "blame" to be assigned here. But MW's reaction is not what I'd want out of a player. Ever. GO BILLS!!! No one would have batted an eyelash if Marrone announced Gragg's benching on Sunday. It's a bit different with your nominal No. 3 receiver.
K-9 Posted October 15, 2014 Posted October 15, 2014 No one would have batted an eyelash if Marrone announced Gragg's benching on Sunday. It's a bit different with your nominal No. 3 receiver. Nominal being the operative word. But you're right, nobody would have batted an eyelash if Gragg was benched instead because I doubt Gragg would have told his agent to demand a trade and then to go public in the press with his dissatisfaction. I doubt most fans would have batted an eyelash, either. Unless you're convinced that benching MW was the only thing that kept us from winning that game. But hey, if there's a segment of the fan base that needs to assign "blame" for a player getting benched, more power to them. GO BILLS!!!
26CornerBlitz Posted October 15, 2014 Posted October 15, 2014 Mike Williams: "I'm Happy Here, I Want To Be Here" (2:16) Wide Receiver Mike Williams responds to trade talk.
boyst Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 Nope. I am pretty sure Mike Williams hates Buffalo. He is so amazing and we just can't use all his greatness. Totally true: Marrone botched this because he is a moron. Mike Williams hates Marrone and Buffalo. Its a fact
YoloinOhio Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 Speculating is one thing... Marrone ditched Williams once before, ditched Stevie, traded for Williams to replace him and ditched him again. Meanwhile he will let Hackett keep his job and even loan him the beemer for prom. MW trade happened months before Stevie was traded. MW was not his replacement. TB called offering him up for a 6th rd pick and Whaley did it because Marrone knew him as a player, knew he had ability, and was willing to work thru the negatives for any potential upside. Stevie was traded once Watkins was drafted because he had not bought in to the culture Marrone was trying to create and was going to be 3rd at best on the depth chart, which was not something they thought he would handle well considering his attitude last season. They did him a favor sending him home to SF, unloaded his contract, and got a higher pick in return than they invested. FYI, there were multiple teams not interested in Stevie Johnson. He had been on the block since At least the combine.
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 I don't know if the Bills have wasted this much offense talent in their franchise history. But at least we have Nate Hackett. MW trade happened months before Stevie was traded. MW was not his replacement. TB called offering him up for a 6th rd pick and Whaley did it because Marrone knew him as a player, knew he had ability, and was willing to work thru the negatives for any potential upside. Stevie was traded once Watkins was drafted because he had not bought in to the culture Marrone was trying to create and was going to be 3rd at best on the depth chart, which was not something they thought he would handle well considering his attitude last season. They did him a favor sending him home to SF, unloaded his contract, and got a higher pick in return than they invested. FYI, there were multiple teams not interested in Stevie Johnson. He had been on the block since At least the combine. Yolo, you're my man, but the 49ers gave up 4th to take a chance on Stevie. Their culture is a million times better than ours. The only culture we have is wasting talented offensive players.
enlightener Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) blah blah blah blah blah blah...thats what most of you sound like. When I read this I thought, ya MW doesnt play st and the team had a 3 tight end set in the game plan when kyle williams suddenly became available that was that. What else can you say/think? You going to leave out woods and start that crap again? Why 13 pages of BS? You either bench hogan or williams and williams cant play st or go deep like goodwin (our only deep threat with graham being cut) So ya, what do you all not understand????? Edited October 16, 2014 by enlightener
YoloinOhio Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) I don't know if the Bills have wasted this much offense talent in their franchise history. But at least we have Nate Hackett. Yolo, you're my man, but the 49ers gave up 4th to take a chance on Stevie. Their culture is a million times better than ours. The only culture we have is wasting talented offensive players. thats why it was a better fit for him. The winning culture was already there. He just needed to show up. In Bflo, he needed to buy in to change and display leadership as a veteran. That was not his strength, and why a place like Cleveland wouldn't work either. They are trying to do the same thing. Edited October 16, 2014 by YoloinOhio
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 thats why it was a better fit for him. The winning culture was already there. He just needed to show up. In Bflo, he needed to buy in to change and display leadership as a veteran. That was not his strength, and why a place like Cleveland wouldn't work either. They are trying to do the same thing. I thought Stevie grew up a lot last year. The whole way he handled his mother dying was impressive to me. I would have him being our veteran wr mentor than Williams. A lot of offensive players aren't reaching their potential here. I like the Marrone hire but his loyalty to his friend calling plays probably will cost him his job.
26CornerBlitz Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 Doug Marrone, Bills players react to Mike Williams trade talk Rookie Sammy Watkins, who the Bills added this offseason less than two months after trading for Williams, said the veteran receiver is seen as a leader. "He’s the one to keep us together, movies, out to eat, anything... he’s there. Picking us up during practice, meetings. Anything that has to do with leading, he’s our leader and I think it would hurt all of us," Watkins said. "I won’t even lie to you, it would hurt everybody that’s in our room."
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 Doug Marrone, Bills players react to Mike Williams trade talk Just like Stevie was a leader and they got rid of him. I love our roster but there is some major mismanagement going on.
YoloinOhio Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 I thought Stevie grew up a lot last year. The whole way he handled his mother dying was impressive to me. I would have him being our veteran wr mentor than Williams. A lot of offensive players aren't reaching their potential here. I like the Marrone hire but his loyalty to his friend calling plays probably will cost him his job. wrt to Stevie - he was not buying in. It's his job to do so when a new coach comes in who is charged with having to turn around a decade plus of losing. He didn't buy in and wasn't all in for team success. That's all I know, and some GMs didn't think his talent level was worth dealing with a potential attitude problem. Just like Stevie was a leader and they got rid of him. I love our roster but there is some major mismanagement going on. i like Stevie, but I heard (GM of another team) the Bills felt Woods was more of a leader as a rookie than he was as a vet.
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 wrt to Stevie - he was not buying in. It's his job to do so when a new coach comes in who is charged with having to turn around a decade plus of losing. He didn't buy in and wasn't all in for team success. That's all I know, and some GMs didn't think his talent level was worth dealing with a potential attitude problem. Honestly, I'm finding trouble in believing Marrone lately. I liked the idea of getting a college coach instead of a re-trend NFL one, but he might be over his head. Stevie was about as popular guy in the lockerroom. Also, if you are wondered about the culture, why do you trade for Mike Williams? Things aren't adding up.
YoloinOhio Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 Honestly, I'm finding trouble in believing Marrone lately. I liked the idea of getting a college coach instead of a re-trend NFL one, but he might be over his head. Stevie was about as popular guy in the lockerroom. Also, if you are wondered about the culture, why do you trade for Mike Williams? Things aren't adding up. i don't know... I don't believe MW was a problem in that way in TB. I do think it was low risk considering the investment and how well Marrone knew him, but he is frustrated with his role and perhaps not handling it well. There is clearly a lot we don't know.
26CornerBlitz Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 Agent: Mike Williams wants to play "Mike Williams is not requesting a trade. Mike Williams wants to play," his agent, Hadley Engelhard, said Wednesday. "We're just trying to give Mike an opportunity to play. "He didn't want it to come across to his hometown fans that he wants out of there. He doesn't want out of there. He wants to stay there. He wants to play. But if he's not going to play there, he wants to play somewhere else."
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 i don't know... I don't believe MW was a problem in that way in TB. I do think it was low risk considering the investment and how well Marrone knew him, but he is frustrated with his role and perhaps not handling it well. There is clearly a lot we don't know. Mike Williams has had issues since high school. He's extremely talented but there's a reason TB only got a 6th for him. The fact that Mike Williams is having issues is hardly a shock. Yet, we traded for a guy who Marrone kicked off the team. I want to believe but I just can't right now.
machine gun kelly Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 MW was not a problem in the locker room in Tampa, and I live there. He was a hell of a WR, and excellent #2, but was a knucklehead off the field. He is not being used right this year. Part of that is just simply bad play from EJ. He was dumb to post on Saturday, but he can help us significantly if Orton can get his timing down with all of his WR.
YoloinOhio Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 Mike Williams has had issues since high school. He's extremely talented but there's a reason TB only got a 6th for him. The fact that Mike Williams is having issues is hardly a shock. Yet, we traded for a guy who Marrone kicked off the team. I want to believe but I just can't right now. oh trust me, I know all about his "issues" especially from HS. Got family with buffalo PD. I meant locker room stuff (wrt Stevie) MW was not a problem in the locker room in Tampa, and I live there. He was a hell of a WR, and excellent #2, but was a knucklehead off the field. He is not being used right this year. Part of that is just simply bad play from EJ. He was dumb to post on Saturday, but he can help us significantly if Orton can get his timing down with all of his WR. this is what I'm hoping for. Mike Williams has had issues since high school. He's extremely talented but there's a reason TB only got a 6th for him. The fact that Mike Williams is having issues is hardly a shock. Yet, we traded for a guy who Marrone kicked off the team. I want to believe but I just can't right now. i hear you.. It's frustrating
GG Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 Nominal being the operative word. But you're right, nobody would have batted an eyelash if Gragg was benched instead because I doubt Gragg would have told his agent to demand a trade and then to go public in the press with his dissatisfaction. I doubt most fans would have batted an eyelash, either. Unless you're convinced that benching MW was the only thing that kept us from winning that game. But hey, if there's a segment of the fan base that needs to assign "blame" for a player getting benched, more power to them. GO BILLS!!! But it's not just this one thing. It's rarely just one thing that knocks somebody down, or exposes their true nature. It's the culmination of things that when taken together paint a full picture. If it's not MW, then it's Marrone and Stevie. If not them, then it's Pears. How about Bryce Brown? Or coddling EJ until he almost had a receiver revolt on his hands? On paper this is the best personnel grouping that the Bills fielded in a long time, yet there's little to show for it and has a feel of spiraling out of control. I'm sure that he doesn't appreciate the dirty laundry getting aired. But he should also recognize that there are few signs out there that his players respect him. I'm sure that he is steamed that Sammy talked to the Syracuse reporter about the MW situation. But he's the one who created the mess by mismanaging the roster. I also have a feeling that he's a big time liar. And it's not the type of lies that are said to the public and press to keep the focus off the team. It's the bad type of lies, where he's double talking inside the clubhouse to the players and the administration. The whole "I have a game to win" shtick with Pegula was pure bluster. Publicly blaming Schwartz for the last series. Whining that the MW situation is now his problem. Hell, he created the problem, and has the nerve to complain that it's somebody else's problem? There are plenty of times where OBD and coaches need to be defended. I'm having a harder time finding those spots with Marrone & Co.
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