Orton is mediocre

[A Dog Named Kelso]

Orton is better then EJ at this point in time but already think he's getting overrated by many on this board. The offense is still beyond pathetic, really don't wanna see Orton again next year but it's what we gotta stomach for this season......And for the record, I was so on board for Mike Glennon instead of EJ but cannot have EJ shoulder the blame for how bad the offense has been. With no O-line and a OC that seems to be playing Madden how can we trust that any QB can be developed under this mess? This coming from a guy who wanted 3-4 QB's instead of Manuel, he screamed inconsistent at FSU.

I don't think he is getting overrated. He is a capable QB and that is what this team needs at the moment. The problem is that many people only see elite or horrible and disregard anything else. So, because Orton is a capable to good QB many people go out of their way to tear him down. Unfortunately; the same is also true of EJ, because he needs time to develop many think that is impossible and he sucks.

[Buffaloed in Pa]

Yeah ,and your stats are HORRIBLY WRONG. K-Dog.

[Orton's Arm]

Orton is ranked 31st in the NFL through 2 starts, should be 0-2 if not for no one telling the Detroit Kicker that he just and to make one FG to win, and for every one good drive he looks totally inept for 3 or 4 others.

 

Orton isnt mediocre statistically, by record, or by the eye ball test...he's below average on all three barometers.

 

We need a new QB next year or let EJ back in to see if he can figure how to not suck.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree about the eyeball test. By my eyeball test, Orton looks like a real NFL QB.

 

As for his stats, below are his yards per attempt stats for the last five years:

2010: 7.3

2011 (Broncos): 6.3

2011 (Chiefs): 8.0

2012: 8.9

2013: 7.8

2014: 7.5

 

To put all this in comparison, Trent Edwards averaged 6.5 yards per attempt for his career. Losman averaged 6.6 yards per attempt. Fitzpatrick never averaged more than 6.8 yards per attempt during any season in Buffalo. (His usual was 6.7.) On the other hand, Tom Brady's career average is 7.4 yards per attempt; and Peyton Manning's career average is 7.7 yards per attempt. While Orton isn't Brady or Manning, he is a significant upgrade over Fitz. That's reflected by both stats and the eyeball test.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree about the eyeball test. By my eyeball test, Orton looks like a real NFL QB.

 

As for his stats, below are his yards per attempt stats for the last five years:

2010: 7.3

2011 (Broncos): 6.3

2011 (Chiefs): 8.0

2012: 8.9

2013: 7.8

2014: 7.5

 

To put all this in comparison, Trent Edwards averaged 6.5 yards per attempt for his career. Losman averaged 6.6 yards per attempt. Fitzpatrick never averaged more than 6.8 yards per attempt during any season in Buffalo. (His usual was 6.7.) On the other hand, Tom Brady's career average is 7.4 yards per attempt; and Peyton Manning's career average is 7.7 yards per attempt. While Orton isn't Brady or Manning, he is a significant upgrade over Fitz. That's reflected by both stats and the eyeball test.

 

BS. I know guys like you love meaningless 300 yard games & ypa. Guys like me like touchdowns. I have a crazy idea that touchdowns mean more than yards. Crazy I know. Well Orton's career high in touchdowns is 21. His next highest is 20 & 18. Fitz has had 24, 23, & 23.

 

You're right. Orton isn't Fitz. I'd rather have Fitz.

[FireChan]

 

 

BS. I know guys like you love meaningless 300 yard games & ypa. Guys like me like touchdowns. I have a crazy idea that touchdowns mean more than yards. Crazy I know. Well Orton's career high in touchdowns is 21. His next highest is 20 & 18. Fitz has had 24, 23, & 23.

 

You're right. Orton isn't Fitz. I'd rather have Fitz.

 

Except when it comes to RB's right?

[Orton's Arm]

BS. I know guys like you love meaningless 300 yard games & ypa. Guys like me like touchdowns. I have a crazy idea that touchdowns mean more than yards. Crazy I know. Well Orton's career high in touchdowns is 21. His next highest is 20 & 18. Fitz has had 24, 23, & 23.

 

You're right. Orton isn't Fitz. I'd rather have Fitz.

 

Orton is a much more accurate passer--especially on intermediate to deep passes--than Fitzpatrick. That's why Orton's YPA is better. However, Fitz had the better offensive coordinator. Also, Gailey tended not to call very many running plays in the red zone. If a drive resulted in a touchdown, it would typically be because of a pass, not a run.

 

The Bills had a better running game with Gailey. During one season under Gailey Spiller averaged 6.0 yards per carry; as opposed to whatever dismal average he's putting together this year under Hackett. Not only that, but Hackett has a strong tendency to waste large numbers of plays on running Spiller up the middle for 2 yard gains. On third down, Orton is expected to make up for Hackett's misdeeds on first and second down. The first time he fails to complete a pass--whether due to his own fault, or a drop, or a missed block, or no one getting open--the drive will often end. Gailey typically avoided run, run, pass.

 

Is Orton a better quarterback than Fitzpatrick? Absolutely. But he isn't enough better to compensate for the downgrade at offensive coordinator, the decreased per-play effectiveness of the running game, and the collapse of the interior OL.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

 

Orton is a much more accurate passer--especially on intermediate to deep passes--than Fitzpatrick. That's why Orton's YPA is better. However, Fitz had the better offensive coordinator. Also, Gailey tended not to call very many running plays in the red zone. If a drive resulted in a touchdown, it would typically be because of a pass, not a run.

 

The Bills had a better running game with Gailey. During one season under Gailey Spiller averaged 6.0 yards per carry; as opposed to whatever dismal average he's putting together this year under Hackett. Not only that, but Hackett has a strong tendency to waste large numbers of plays on running Spiller up the middle for 2 yard gains. On third down, Orton is expected to make up for Hackett's misdeeds on first and second down. The first time he fails to complete a pass--whether due to his own fault, or a drop, or a missed block, or no one getting open--the drive will often end. Gailey typically avoided run, run, pass.

 

Is Orton a better quarterback than Fitzpatrick? Absolutely. But he isn't enough better to compensate for the downgrade at offensive coordinator, the decreased per-play effectiveness of the running game, and the collapse of the interior OL.

 

I agree about the coordinator. Hackett is bad and Gailey was good (it's also why I don't want to give up on EJ). But Orton had McDaniel in Denver who was coming up setting records in NE. Also, I'd take D Thomas, Royal and Decker over Stevie, Jones, & Nelson.

 

Basically, Orton and Fitz are the same guy. And that's why I hate this move. We wanted to get rid of Fitz and now we basically have him back. He is a good backup and a mediocre starter. And I hate that we're back here.

 

 

 

Except when it comes to RB's right?

 

Your point make carry weigh if we had red zone Qbs who prevented Qbs from getting tds. Fred Jackson gets goalline carries.

[Deranged Rhino]

I agree about the coordinator. Hackett is bad and Gailey was good (it's also why I don't want to give up on EJ). But Orton had McDaniel in Denver who was coming up setting records in NE. Also, I'd take D Thomas, Royal and Decker over Stevie, Jones, & Nelson.

 

Basically, Orton and Fitz are the same guy. And that's why I hate this move. We wanted to get rid of Fitz and now we basically have him back. He is a good backup and a mediocre starter. And I hate that we're back here.

 

You mean 3-3, 1-1 in the division with an honest to God's chance of making the playoffs? Yeah, it sucks to be back in this position.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

 

You mean 3-3, 1-1 in the division with an honest to God's chance of making the playoffs? Yeah, it sucks to be back in this position.

 

Haha. Trust me, I know the season's not over. I hope Orton lights it up. But I have 8 years of proof he won't.

 

And how many times were we here with Fitz. I think Edwards and Lisman got us here. 3-3 kinda sucks given how average the league is and our talent level. The reason I wanted to stay with EJ is because there's a chance (however small) of improving into something big. We know what Orton is. He's a lower term starter and really backup. Just like Fitz.

 

But if Orton leads us to the playoffs, he will be my favorite qb.

[FireChan]

 

 

I agree about the coordinator. Hackett is bad and Gailey was good (it's also why I don't want to give up on EJ). But Orton had McDaniel in Denver who was coming up setting records in NE. Also, I'd take D Thomas, Royal and Decker over Stevie, Jones, & Nelson.

 

Basically, Orton and Fitz are the same guy. And that's why I hate this move. We wanted to get rid of Fitz and now we basically have him back. He is a good backup and a mediocre starter. And I hate that we're back here.

 

 

 

Your point make carry weigh if we had red zone Qbs who prevented Qbs from getting tds. Fred Jackson gets goalline carries.

 

You do know Josh McDaniels got canned from Denver, right?

 

You do also know that RB's vulture TD's from other RB's AND QB's right?

 

You do also know that we're at .500 right now, with our upcoming stretch of games against teams who are a combined 8-22 in W/L and you're already heaping on the negativity, right?

[JC2002]

BS. I know guys like you love meaningless 300 yard games & ypa. Guys like me like touchdowns. I have a crazy idea that touchdowns mean more than yards. Crazy I know. Well Orton's career high in touchdowns is 21. His next highest is 20 & 18. Fitz has had 24, 23, & 23.

 

You're right. Orton isn't Fitz. I'd rather have Fitz.

 

just embarrassing that you are just clinging to whatever meaningless stat that you can .

 

Fitz in 2 full seasons threw 24 tds and 23 tds but also threw 23 picks and 16 picks

 

Orton has never started 16 games due to injuries mostly so his best numbers are actually in 15 games but he did in Denver throw 20 tds and 9 picks in 13 games

 

somehow those 3-4 extra tds are what you are gonna cling to back up your argument ?

 

You completely ignore the fact that Fitz has yet to finish a season with a .500 or better record as a starter but yet of course you would take someone who has yet to play a meaningful game in his entire NFL career

 

So no Fitz and Orton are not the same game because one has played quite a few games that mean something in November and December and the other one has not its that simple

[3rdand12]

BS. I know guys like you love meaningless 300 yard games & ypa. Guys like me like touchdowns. I have a crazy idea that touchdowns mean more than yards. Crazy I know. Well Orton's career high in touchdowns is 21. His next highest is 20 & 18. Fitz has had 24, 23, & 23.

 

You're right. Orton isn't Fitz. I'd rather have Fitz.

How about the redzone numbers ? I think that has been the significant shift into the positive for the Offense.

Don't discount what a short time Orton has been here > Much less running the ones .

I am going to stay pro Orton. Level headed mind you , and steady. But feel he is still getting acclimated . and deserves some credit and some fan support .

[C.Biscuit97]

 

 

just embarrassing that you are just clinging to whatever meaningless stat that you can .

 

Fitz in 2 full seasons threw 24 tds and 23 tds but also threw 23 picks and 16 picks

 

Orton has never started 16 games due to injuries mostly so his best numbers are actually in 15 games but he did in Denver throw 20 tds and 9 picks in 13 games

 

somehow those 3-4 extra tds are what you are gonna cling to back up your argument ?

 

You completely ignore the fact that Fitz has yet to finish a season with a .500 or better record as a starter but yet of course you would take someone who has yet to play a meaningful game in his entire NFL career

 

So no Fitz and Orton are not the same game because one has played quite a few games that mean something in November and December and the other one has not its that simple

 

Orton got benched and Tebow (however overrated he was) went to the playoffs. Those were talented Denver teams. Much more so than the Buffalo ones.

 

And honestly, neither are Fitz or Orton are good enough. That's the point.

[dave mcbride]

I obviously engage a lot about the qbs and rbs, but this needs to be stressed: we have some really bad offensive linemen, and it affects everything. Seantrel Henderson was absolutely horrible in every way last Sunday, and Richardson appears to be abysmal. And of course there's Pears.

[JC2002]

Orton got benched and Tebow (however overrated he was) went to the playoffs. Those were talented Denver teams. Much more so than the Buffalo ones.

 

And honestly, neither are Fitz or Orton are good enough. That's the point.

 

You have no point you say absurd stuff and then quickly switch topics when confronted with stats disproving your claims

 

Its simply embarrassing

[FireChan]

 

 

You have no point you say absurd stuff and then quickly switch topics when confronted with stats disproving your claims

 

Its simply embarrassing

 

Personally, my favorite Biscuit quote is, "these knee jerk reactions need to stop," which, of course, came after his, "Fire Marrone," topic just days after EJ being benched.

 

This is a normal interaction.

 

"Hackett sucks, I don't trust his judgment. If he was a great offensive mind like (insert someone who is not a great offensive mind) it'd be different.

 

"(Insert not great offensive mind) sucks, look at his W/L record, his stats as an OC, and the fact he hasn't "developed" a successful QB in almost 40 years"

 

"But the offensive line sucks!"

Edited October 18, 2014 by FireChan

[@OrtonsMustache]

https://twitter.com/...2536576/photo/1

[Orton's Arm]

I agree about the coordinator. Hackett is bad and Gailey was good (it's also why I don't want to give up on EJ). But Orton had McDaniel in Denver who was coming up setting records in NE. Also, I'd take D Thomas, Royal and Decker over Stevie, Jones, & Nelson.

 

Basically, Orton and Fitz are the same guy. And that's why I hate this move. We wanted to get rid of Fitz and now we basically have him back. He is a good backup and a mediocre starter. And I hate that we're back here.

 

> it's also why I don't want to give up on EJ

 

Manuel is not more accurate than Losman. Nor is he better at processing information than Losman. Nor are his physical tools much different than Losman's. At least Losman could throw a nice long bomb. There is no aspect of Manuel's on-field play that stands out as significantly better than Losman's, or as likely to become better. Manuel will be lucky to have as good a career as Losman had. That's not the offensive coordinator's fault. Not even Bill Walsh could have turned Manuel into an accurate passer or someone who processes information rapidly.

 

> Basically, Orton and Fitz are the same guy.

 

I'm not sure I agree. Orton looks more accurate to me. I also see him making the kinds of difficult throws that Fitz would typically avoid.

 

> And I hate that we're back here.

 

I can empathize with that feeling. It probably isn't much different than how I felt when the Bills drafted Manuel in the first place. When they announced the pick, I felt exactly the same emotions I had after the Music City Miracle. Trust me, I was not a happy camper.

 

The Bills haven't had a legitimate quarterback of the future since Kelly hung up his cleats. But at least now they realize they don't have a quarterback of the future. That's a step in the right direction. An even bigger step in the right direction would be if Pegula made sure that the people picking Manuel's replacement are not the same ones who chose Manuel. There's talent on this team. But for that talent to come together, we're first going to need the right general manager, head coach, and quarterback.