C.Biscuit97 Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 Biscuit would blame Lombardi himself for Manuel's ineptitude. I highly doubt Lombardi would trust Nate Hackett to developing a young qb. It's not just Manuel. It's Spiller. It's the oline. If a proven guy like Norv Turner was having the same problems with our offense, I'd be more on the EJ isn't good enough or Spiller is a flash in the pan. But sorry. Hackett doesn't inspire confidence in me in developing NFL players. Maybe he can improve with time but we run one of the most boring offenses I've ever seen.
FireChan Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) I highly doubt Lombardi would trust Nate Hackett to developing a young qb. It's not just Manuel. It's Spiller. It's the oline. If a proven guy like Norv Turner was having the same problems with our offense, I'd be more on the EJ isn't good enough or Spiller is a flash in the pan. But sorry. Hackett doesn't inspire confidence in me in developing NFL players. Maybe he can improve with time but we run one of the most boring offenses I've ever seen. Why do you keep referencing Norv Turner as some kind of offensive guru? You know he has a .483 HC record, right? You know he fielded some of the worst underachieving teams in NFL history, right? You know he was the OC for the 2006 49ers team, with a rookie QB (Alex Smith) who finished 4-12 and 26th in offense, right? Alex Smith definitely appreciated the vaunted Norv developing him, it only took him 5 more season to play well. Show me that Norv didn't build his coaching career on being a part of the Cowboys dynasty. He's the Wannstedt of offenses. Get him 4 All-Pros on an offense and he'll win some regular season games. Edited October 14, 2014 by FireChan
Sisyphean Bills Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 Why do you keep referencing Norv Turner as some kind of offensive guru? You know he has a .483 HC record, right? You know he fielded some of the worst underachieving teams in NFL history, right? You know he was the OC for the 2006 49ers team, with a rookie QB (Alex Smith) who finished 4-12 and 26th in offense, right? Alex Smith definitely appreciated the vaunted Norv developing him, it only took him 5 more season to play well. Show me that Norv didn't build his coaching career on being a part of the Cowboys dynasty. He's the Wannstedt of offenses. Get him 4 All-Pros on an offense and he'll win some regular season games. Not sure if that is enough.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) Well, one of those turnovers led to a TD only because Duke Williams, instead of making an easy end zone int, inexplicably shoved the WR in the dumbest PI committed in the history of the NFL. And despite those 2 turnovers, the Bills went into halftime only down by 6 points. Then in the second half, the D laid down. and it would have been much nicer had Orton not "given" the Putrids those 13 points - Bills by 6 up half if you choose to use that logic I mean Edited October 14, 2014 by BillsFan-4-Ever
mattsox Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 this team is still plagued with below average QB play. Orton Passer Rating: 20th (EJ 28th) Orton Total QBR: 31st (EJ 33rd) Orton is playing better than EJ, but that ain't saying much. Orton better take advantage of the upcoming so called easier games. No ****. You were expecting Orton to be the second coming of Jim Kelly???
paupmvp1995 Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 You can't predict what he would or wouldn't have done. But if we are going to try, I predict he would have avoided some of the sacks where Orton stood in the pocket like a rookie for 5 seconds and got crushed. I predict EJ would have protected the ball better than Orton because with the exception of the terrible INT to Watt, he has proven to protect the ball. And I predict that he would have gotten another game of experience against a good team and maybe learned something. You are REALLY stupid. Did you seriously not watch the game? Orton was bringing it the entire game. The guy is a gunslinger. He made one poor throw that was picked. All QB's do that. On the fumble, Cordy Glenn was pathetic. We have not had a QB make the throws that Orton was making to all our receivers since Flutie, and Bledsoe for about two or three starts. EJ is AFRAID to throw it down the seem. At least w Orton we have a chance to move the football on every drive. My goodness, turnovers happen in a game. No risk, no reward. You give Orton some time to throw, and some decent playcalling, and we will be moving the football all season. The receivers did not want to play w EJ. They all get that EJ has no game. You should too. Watch the game again. Orton did not lose the game. With any kind of second half D, we have a great chance of winning this game. And that was all because of Orton leading the Offense.
JC2002 Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 and it would have been much nicer had Orton not "given" the Putrids those 13 points - Bills by 6 up half if you choose to use that logic I mean Actually Orton didnt give them 13 points . The Pats on that pick received the ball at their own 39 yard line that is not giving someone points . The pats got the ball to our one because of a 30 yard pass interference penalty . Did you guys watch the game ?
bobobonators Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 Actually Orton didnt give them 13 points . The Pats on that pick received the ball at their own 39 yard line that is not giving someone points . The pats got the ball to our one because of a 30 yard pass interference penalty . Did you guys watch the game ? LOL. I agree. That's like arguing Orton gave them points everytime the Bills punted in the 2nd half. After the offense got the bills within one score late in the 4th, we gave them points too b/c we had to kick the ball off back to them. Heaven forbid we stop a 3rd and 16.
Mr. WEO Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 and it would have been much nicer had Orton not "given" the Putrids those 13 points - Bills by 6 up half if you choose to use that logic I mean Orton didn't "give" the pats those 13 points. 3 of them came on a NE FG after a Spiller fumble just before halftime. You're a mess, brother...
taterthegator Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 Orton did not lose the game for us. Poor choices by coaching, and other players not stepping up or making mistakes. Lets not forget our D did not help Worst game of the year for our D But he certainly didn't help...
Maddog69 Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 I hate absurd comments like this. Can't make the throw? Then explain to me why EJ HAS made those throws. Seriously, these are the dumbest things said in threads and the shout box every week. EJ has made every single throw that Orton has, so stop with these comments. EJ has made some beautiful throws, and several of our WRs dropped ones that were right on the money. Neither QB is playing good enough, that's a given. But these mythological claims are absurd. Love him or hate him, doesn't matter. Factually you are 100% incorrect. At the end of the day, I want to win and don't care which QB is in there to do it. But if Orton doesn't play better, then EJ needs to finish the season to see if he can further develop considering he only has 14 games. And in those 14 games, his stats, record, and performance is better than many top QBs first 14 games. So let's not over exaggerate his poor play. In 14 games he also has 3 comeback 4th qtr wins. He had upside where Orton has none. So if this is all we get from Orton, then we need to ride and die with EJ and hope the light bulb comes on and find a new QB next year if it doesn't. First and foremost FIRE HACKETT I agree with this post 100,000,000 Percent You are REALLY stupid. Did you seriously not watch the game? Orton was bringing it the entire game. The guy is a gunslinger. He made one poor throw that was picked. All QB's do that. On the fumble, Cordy Glenn was pathetic. We have not had a QB make the throws that Orton was making to all our receivers since Flutie, and Bledsoe for about two or three starts. EJ is AFRAID to throw it down the seem. At least w Orton we have a chance to move the football on every drive. My goodness, turnovers happen in a game. No risk, no reward. You give Orton some time to throw, and some decent playcalling, and we will be moving the football all season. The receivers did not want to play w EJ. They all get that EJ has no game. You should too. Watch the game again. Orton did not lose the game. With any kind of second half D, we have a great chance of winning this game. And that was all because of Orton leading the Offense. Keep making excuses for him. Bad ball security. He missed the some open throws. He stood in the pocket WAY to long and took sacks. Were you at the game? I was. He made a lot of mistakes. Sure he made some nice passes. And a lot of completions on short passes. He was better this week than last. But, we still lost. He made enough mistakes to hurt the team as much as EJ ever has. Someone on here said that you shouldn't attribute wins and losses to QBs and I agree. But then why do so many people blame EJ for the losses to Houston and SD with all of the other things that are now being used to excuse Orton losing still present? It's the double standard that drives me nuts. The team is not good enough to beat top teams, so don't blame the QB. Orton has had 8 years to demonstrate his mediocrity and has done it expertly. I see no reason to have EJ on the bench. He can lose to NE just as good as Orton did and he might learn something and improve so he might one day beat them. I feel like this is a wasted season with Orton. Atleast with EJ, we might make progress towards finding our QB of the future. Many here are convinced EJ is not it. I'm not there yet. I want to see as many more starts this season as possible so I don't go into next season not knowing for sure whether we need to go find another young QB to develop. I do know for sure that Orton is not the QB of the future. Orton didn't "give" the pats those 13 points. 3 of them came on a NE FG after a Spiller fumble just before halftime. You're a mess, brother... LOL. Oh, Orton only gave them 10 points. That's SOOOO much better.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 Actually Orton didnt give them 13 points . The Pats on that pick received the ball at their own 39 yard line that is not giving someone points . The pats got the ball to our one because of a 30 yard pass interference penalty . Did you guys watch the game ? I stand corrected. Let me be more specific I'll call it 10 points. read what the media, even the game announcers have said three first-half turnovers that led to all 13 of the Patriots' points http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2014/10/bills_closed_gap_patriots_but_still_lose.html Bottom line: The Bills committed three turnovers in the first half, and the Patriots converted them into 13 points. Kyle Orton threw and interception and lost a fumble. C.J. Spiller also coughed one up. http://bills.buffalonews.com/2014/10/12/points-patriots-37-bills-22/
bobobonators Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 I stand corrected. Let me be more specific I'll call it 10 points. read what the media, even the game announcers have said three first-half turnovers that led to all 13 of the Patriots' points http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2014/10/bills_closed_gap_patriots_but_still_lose.html Bottom line: The Bills committed three turnovers in the first half, and the Patriots converted them into 13 points. Kyle Orton threw and interception and lost a fumble. C.J. Spiller also coughed one up. http://bills.buffalonews.com/2014/10/12/points-patriots-37-bills-22/ The also converted very punt/kick off we gave to them in the 2nd half into a score. The line should be simple: Bills Defense fails to stop Brady and the Pats.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 On the first play of the half, Bills quarterback Kyle Orton threw an interception straight to Patriots linebacker Jamie Collins that led to New England’s only first-half touchdown. Late in the half, Patriots defensive end Chandler Jones beat Bills left tackle Cordy Glenn to get to Kyle Orton, reach over his back for a strip sack and then recover the fumble himself, which put the Patriots at the Bills 24-yard line and led to a field goal..... Finally, Bills running back C.J. Spiller fumbled with just six seconds left in the first half, which allowed the Patriots to complete one pass to the sideline and set up a 53-yard field goal for Stephen Gostkowski. http://www.buffalobillsdraft.com/2014/10/halftime-report-turnovers-costly-as-buffalo-bills-trail-13-7-to-new-england-patriots/
bobobonators Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) On the first play of the half, Bills quarterback Kyle Orton threw an interception straight to Patriots linebacker Jamie Collins that led to New England’s only first-half touchdown. Late in the half, Patriots defensive end Chandler Jones beat Bills left tackle Cordy Glenn to get to Kyle Orton, reach over his back for a strip sack and then recover the fumble himself, which put the Patriots at the Bills 24-yard line and led to a field goal..... Finally, Bills running back C.J. Spiller fumbled with just six seconds left in the first half, which allowed the Patriots to complete one pass to the sideline and set up a 53-yard field goal for Stephen Gostkowski. http://www.buffalobillsdraft.com/2014/10/halftime-report-turnovers-costly-as-buffalo-bills-trail-13-7-to-new-england-patriots/ I think we all watched the game man. The strip sack is what it is. That ball is going to be fumbled 9 times out of 10. Not much Orton could've done there except maybe get rid of the ball sooner, but it's not like he was standing in the pocket for 8 seconds either. The INT was the only CLEAR mistake Orton made and that was in the Pats territory and not our side of the field. The defense could've stopped them too. Edited October 14, 2014 by bobobonators
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) or how about this one I see a pattern I don't like. A slow start is one thing. easy points to start games is another I think we all watched the game man. The strip sack is what it is. That ball is going to be fumbled 9 times out of 10. Not much Orton could've done there except maybe get rid of the ball sooner, but it's not like he was standing in the pocket for 8 seconds either. The INT was the only CLEAR mistake Orton made and that was in the Pats territory and not our side of the field. The defense could've stopped them too. didn't Brady hold onto his attempted strip sack on a prior drive? Edited October 14, 2014 by BillsFan-4-Ever
Maddog69 Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 The also converted very punt/kick off we gave to them in the 2nd half into a score. The line should be simple: Bills Defense fails to stop Brady and the Pats. I think the offense and defense both contributed to the loss. As did the coaching. As I said before, this was a team loss. Too many mistakes and too many penalties.
bobobonators Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 I think the offense and defense both contributed to the loss. As did the coaching. As I said before, this was a team loss. Too many mistakes and too many penalties. I agree.
garbag3man Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 From what I have seen throughout his career, Kyle Orton is Ryan Fitzpatrick. The guy has a strong mentality, he's ready to throw the ball 40 times a game, and he has a pretty good arm. He is going to make 2-3 terrible decisions that are going to lose games/keep games closer than they should be. That being said, and as an EJ fan, I think that starting KO for a while is just what the doctor ordered for the team for the rest of the season, and for EJ as well. Whatever happened, we all saw that EJ regressed in the SD & HOU games. I don't think he should have been throwing 30+ passes, and I think we should have been moving the pocket more, but he regressed. I think that this is an opportunity for him to be able to sit back and watch a QB who just goes out there and plays, and really grow from this. KO isn't the answer at QB for this team long term, he is a caretaker. He is a guy we can put in there, and possibly win some games, and I think in the meantime, EJ will be growing into a QB who can start in this league for quite a few years going forward.
filthymcnasty08 Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 From what I have seen throughout his career, Kyle Orton is Ryan Fitzpatrick. The guy has a strong mentality, he's ready to throw the ball 40 times a game, and he has a pretty good arm. He is going to make 2-3 terrible decisions that are going to lose games/keep games closer than they should be. That being said, and as an EJ fan, I think that starting KO for a while is just what the doctor ordered for the team for the rest of the season, and for EJ as well. Whatever happened, we all saw that EJ regressed in the SD & HOU games. I don't think he should have been throwing 30+ passes, and I think we should have been moving the pocket more, but he regressed. I think that this is an opportunity for him to be able to sit back and watch a QB who just goes out there and plays, and really grow from this. KO isn't the answer at QB for this team long term, he is a caretaker. He is a guy we can put in there, and possibly win some games, and I think in the meantime, EJ will be growing into a QB who can start in this league for quite a few years going forward. Stop making sense brother….you're supposed to be a fervent supporter of one or the other here in the land of perpetual QB controversy!!!!
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