A Few Thoughts About The Game, in no particular order.....

[thewildrabbit]

I'm calling BS. You're telling me you weren't saying Gailey wasn't using Spiller enough in 2012? You're telling me you weren't pumped when Hackett said he'd run him til he pukes? Not buying it.

Allow me to clarify. I did want Gailey to utilize Spiller more, and get him at the very least 20 touches a game. Gailey himself stated he should be giving both Fred & CJ 20 touches each, and throwing only 20 times a game. Yet that almost never happened because once the team got behind in the score by as little as 3 points it was " bombs away" with Chan as the OC going pass happy. Neither Orton or EJ should be throwing 40 times a game, and yet they have the lst 3 games.

 

Heck yea I was excited to hear Hackett state he would run Spiller until he threw up. Just not the way Hackett has been using him. Last year it was +70% of runs midguard, or up the middle, or up the gut. Now this year with lousy OG's they can't even seem to get that done.

 

Then probably the biggest reason for Spiller's decline is that the blocking is no where near the same, and the offensive plays aren't the same.

 

I just don't like the way Hackett has setup the current offensive scheme. With trying to run Spiller out of a 2-3 WR spread set, and usually always keeps a TE in to block. Chan Gaileys offensive scheme called for a shotgun, 4 WR single back spread set. Sometimes a 5 WR empty backfield shotgun spread set like the Patriots use.

 

The difference between the two schemes is that 4 WR set (that Brady also runs) challenges the defense to cover the extra WR with a DB instead of a LBer. This often creates a mismatch in favor of the offense. Hackett runs it occasionally, and Gailey continually ran it.

 

Go back and watch that first series against the Patriots, and watch Spiller run off tackle for 6 yards on a misdirection play. Then I never saw that play again all game.

 

When I said situational RB I meant 20 touches a game. 15 touches in the run game, and 5 in the passing game. But not as the every down, up the middle for 3 yards, and a cloud of dust, up the gut type RB. He needs to get the ball in space, off tackle. misdirection, end around, WR slot. He simply isn't built to take constant up the middle pounding. At 5'11'' 200lbs he is a waterbug type IMO. At 6'1'' 215 Jackson is more suited for the up the middle plays, and even then it should be Dixon's job as he is 6'1'' 239 lbs. Dixon had 5 attempts for 60 yards against Chicago, and made the Bears respect the run game.

[FireChan]

Allow me to clarify. I did want Gailey to utilize Spiller more, and get him at the very least 20 touches a game. Gailey himself stated he should be giving both Fred & CJ 20 touches each, and throwing only 20 times a game. Yet that almost never happened because once the team got behind in the score by as little as 3 points it was " bombs away" with Chan as the OC going pass happy. Neither Orton or EJ should be throwing 40 times a game, and yet they have the lst 3 games.

 

Heck yea I was excited to hear Hackett state he would run Spiller until he threw up. Just not the way Hackett has been using him. Last year it was +70% of runs midguard, or up the middle, or up the gut. Now this year with lousy OG's they can't even seem to get that done.

 

Then probably the biggest reason for Spiller's decline is that the blocking is no where near the same, and the offensive plays aren't the same.

 

I just don't like the way Hackett has setup the current offensive scheme. With trying to run Spiller out of a 2-3 WR spread set, and usually always keeps a TE in to block. Chan Gaileys offensive scheme called for a shotgun, 4 WR single back spread set. Sometimes a 5 WR empty backfield shotgun spread set like the Patriots use.

 

The difference between the two schemes is that 4 WR set (that Brady also runs) challenges the defense to cover the extra WR with a DB instead of a LBer. This often creates a mismatch in favor of the offense. Hackett runs it occasionally, and Gailey continually ran it.

 

Go back and watch that first series against the Patriots, and watch Spiller run off tackle for 6 yards on a misdirection play. Then I never saw that play again all game.

 

When I said situational RB I meant 20 touches a game. 15 touches in the run game, and 5 in the passing game. But not as the every down, up the middle for 3 yards, and a cloud of dust, up the gut type RB. He needs to get the ball in space, off tackle. misdirection, end around, WR slot. He simply isn't built to take constant up the middle pounding. At 5'11'' 200lbs he is a waterbug type IMO. At 6'1'' 215 Jackson is more suited for the up the middle plays, and even then it should be Dixon's job as he is 6'1'' 239 lbs. Dixon had 5 attempts for 60 yards against Chicago, and made the Bears respect the run game.

 

Who blocked poorly this play? What is the problem with the play-call? Why would the OC ever call this again?

 

https://vine.co/v/OqB9YQxv31M

 

I think RB's who do things like this should get 0 touches a game.

 

Spiller's main issue is Spiller. Teams have figured him out from 2012. If he's on the field, they sure as hell know he isn't gonna stay in pass-pro, because he sucks at it. They know to not over commit to the middle, because he's gonna try to bounce it out. They know to look for the screen, because that's his only effective play. Running a "Spiller-centric" offense helps CJ Spiller. It didn't do much for our offensive ranking, nor our W/L. It doesn't help our young QB (who was supposed to keep the reigns this year.) Can you imagine EJ in Gailey's offense? Good lord, we'd never complete a pass.

Edited October 14, 2014 by FireChan

[thewildrabbit]

Th

Who blocked poorly this play? What is the problem with the play-call? Why would the OC ever call this again?

 

https://vine.co/v/OqB9YQxv31M

 

I think RB's who do things like this should get 0 touches a game.

 

Spiller's main issue is Spiller. Teams have figured him out from 2012. If he's on the field, they sure as hell know he isn't gonna stay in pass-pro, because he sucks at it. They know to not over commit to the middle, because he's gonna try to bounce it out. They know to look for the screen, because that's his only effective play. Running a "Spiller-centric" offense helps CJ Spiller. It didn't do much for our offensive ranking, nor our W/L. It doesn't help our young QB (who was supposed to keep the reigns this year.) Can you imagine EJ in Gailey's offense? Good lord, we'd never complete a pass.

You really can't see holes on the line from the sideline view, at least I can't. I'd say Chandler being thrown to the ground like a rag doll, so yea, that's a piss poor block. At best no matter what Spiller does, he gets back to the line of scrimmage as two defenders were closing from the outside. This is the NFL, and holes on the line close in milliseconds.

 

Why not look at this from Gailey's offense: http://www.buffalobi...9a-a6a349aa4b95

 

when was the last time you saw the Bills OG's 20+ yards downfield making a block...2012 perhaps?

 

And lastly, Gailey was about as much a QB guru is as Marrone is an O line guru. I wouldn't want that guy coaching a rookie QB. You can't honestly tell me that the O line hasn't gotten so much worse with no Levitre from 2012..can you?

 

 

 

EDIT: The way the offense should be run is exactly the way Hackett ran it in the first game against Chicago. Manuel 16 of 22 passing. Spiller 18 touches, Jackson 10 touches, Dixon 5 touches. 193 net yards rushing vs 167 yards passing. The Bills had 7 first down rushing, 6 passing. Run the ball, and keep the defense off the field.

 

Then against the Chargers, Houston, Detroit, and New England its been all about throwing 40 times a game vs 20 rushes. Its like the Bills aren't even trying to get a decent run game going. Even if they bench Spiller it should be Jackson / Dixon getting 20 touches each.

Edited October 14, 2014 by FeartheLosing

[Gordio]

I disagree that Spiller's a liability. He's fast, quick, and is a threat to break a big play any time he gets the ball in space. That's not a liability. The liability lies in the brains of the people trying to use him as a between-the-tackles tailback behind a line that can't get him in to space.

 

And that's why he should be "benched" - on this offense, he's no more than a situational player. He's in no way fit to be the starting RB on this team.

 

The end of the half fumble by Spiller was a stupid play by a stupid player. Although it was even a dumber call. If your going to call that play why not just take a knee & head towards the lockerroom.

[FLFan]

The end of the half fumble by Spiller was a stupid play by a stupid player. Although it was even a dumber call. If your going to call that play why not just take a knee & head towards the lockerroom.

It was a "safe" play to run from that position and situation which actually worked. It caught NE defending the pass downfield and he gained 15 yards. Had Spiller not fumbled the ball, the Bills were set up for a pass to get to field goal range, and they had a time out. The one time Spiller chose to NOT run out of bounds was the exact time he should have. There was nothing wrong with the play, everything wrong with Spiller's decision making.

[Manther]

 

 

Totally ridiculous. Orton is only slightly better than Manuel right now. Those two turnovers that Orton made in the first half got the Pats' rolling. There's no denying this.

 

If you're impressed by passing stats, then yes Orton blows Manuel away. However, turnovers are the most important stat and Manuel seemed much better than Orton at protecting the ball.

 

I'm ok with watching Orton start a couple of more games, but if this definition of a journeyman QB thinks he can get away with making killer turnovers and keep his starting job over a 1st rd selected QB who had a decent win/loss record then he's got another thing coming.

Orton is much better than Manuel right now. If you can't tell you are not being open minded. Orton can complete simple and tougher passes... move the ball...chains...and score points. Manuel struggles with all those. The eye test does it for me too. Orton looks lime an NFL QB and Manuel doesn't. There is a big difference in the two!

Edited October 14, 2014 by Manther

[Tyrod's Tailor]

Who blocked poorly this play? What is the problem with the play-call? Why would the OC ever call this again?

 

https://vine.co/v/OqB9YQxv31M

 

I think RB's who do things like this should get 0 touches a game.

 

Spiller's main issue is Spiller. Teams have figured him out from 2012. If he's on the field, they sure as hell know he isn't gonna stay in pass-pro, because he sucks at it. They know to not over commit to the middle, because he's gonna try to bounce it out. They know to look for the screen, because that's his only effective play. Running a "Spiller-centric" offense helps CJ Spiller. It didn't do much for our offensive ranking, nor our W/L. It doesn't help our young QB (who was supposed to keep the reigns this year.) Can you imagine EJ in Gailey's offense? Good lord, we'd never complete a pass.

 

That play is damning. What the hell is he looking at? Jackson gets 5 yards at least.

[thebandit27]

The end of the half fumble by Spiller was a stupid play by a stupid player. Although it was even a dumber call. If your going to call that play why not just take a knee & head towards the lockerroom.

 

The play gained 15 yards...if he holds onto the ball, they have plenty of time to throw a pass down the middle of the field, call a timeout, and set up for a field goal. Blame the fumble, not the play call that got a sizeable gain when there was still time to score before the half.

 

That play is damning. What the hell is he looking at? Jackson gets 5 yards at least.

 

Sure is...I realize the OL isn't great, but Spiller makes them look much worse than they are on many occasions.

[Sgt. Ski]

God I hate to do this but.... i'm a Freddie fan, but if ANYBODY dvr's the game. go back and look at the formations that spiller runs off of. they are not the same ones that freddie runs with the exception of 2. we still need to block!!!!!!!!!

[JC2002]

Cj looks like a player to me that simply needs something good to happen to him . That run FireChan posted screams zero confidence to me

[Gordio]

It was a "safe" play to run from that position and situation which actually worked. It caught NE defending the pass downfield and he gained 15 yards. Had Spiller not fumbled the ball, the Bills were set up for a pass to get to field goal range, and they had a time out. The one time Spiller chose to NOT run out of bounds was the exact time he should have. There was nothing wrong with the play, everything wrong with Spiller's decision making.

Fair enough, I was in the scoreboard endzone pretty low so it was tough for me to see how much he gained. Plus I had a few pops in me by that time. Right call bad result I guess. Yeah he should of ran out of bounds.

[RevWarRifleman]

Th You really can't see holes on the line from the sideline view, at least I can't. I'd say Chandler being thrown to the ground like a rag doll, so yea, that's a piss poor block. At best no matter what Spiller does, he gets back to the line of scrimmage as two defenders were closing from the outside. This is the NFL, and holes on the line close in milliseconds.

 

Why not look at this from Gailey's offense: http://www.buffalobi...9a-a6a349aa4b95

 

when was the last time you saw the Bills OG's 20+ yards downfield making a block...2012 perhaps?

 

And lastly, Gailey was about as much a QB guru is as Marrone is an O line guru. I wouldn't want that guy coaching a rookie QB. You can't honestly tell me that the O line hasn't gotten so much worse with no Levitre from 2012..can you?

 

 

 

EDIT: The way the offense should be run is exactly the way Hackett ran it in the first game against Chicago. Manuel 16 of 22 passing. Spiller 18 touches, Jackson 10 touches, Dixon 5 touches. 193 net yards rushing vs 167 yards passing. The Bills had 7 first down rushing, 6 passing. Run the ball, and keep the defense off the field.

 

Then against the Chargers, Houston, Detroit, and New England its been all about throwing 40 times a game vs 20 rushes. Its like the Bills aren't even trying to get a decent run game going. Even if they bench Spiller it should be Jackson / Dixon getting 20 touches each.

FTL, thanks for including that video of Spiller in 2012. That's good stuff that proves a good point: Chan worked ways to get CJ out into space. He's lethal then. Why Hackett/Marrone don't utilize this is frustrating! Enjoyed many of your points this season, too. And thanks for digging up the 2012 CJ vid. Good stuff. This is real football. RWR

[reddogblitz]

Sad but true. Time for someone to post the Jim Mora "playoffs?" rant. Any talk of playoffs is premature until we can keep up with the Pats, at least at home.

 

Not necessarily. It depends more on what we do in the other 14 game . If we were to win 7 of the next 9 and lose to the Patsies 73 - 0 in Foxboro we would probably still make the playoffs.

[4merper4mer]

 

And I am tired of watching Marrone look like a moron

 

Are you also tired of water being wet?

Edited October 15, 2014 by 4merper4mer