Kirby Jackson Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) Those 2 years in the NFL are what I'm talking about. I really believe it help prepare you for the NFL, so you can concentrate on your job, and not just getting the lay of the land. Remember, Spurrier was an innovator, too. And he was a famous flame out. It's going to take more than Chip Kelly (and I'll wait for him to have more success, too) before I start believing in hiring coaches with no previous NFL experience. Let the guys come into the NFL and coach a position, or perhaps as a coordinator. There is something to be said for earning the job. That never goes out of style as far as I'm concerned. I'm just not sure that 2 seasons 12 years ago have much to do with Harbaugh's success. The Spurrier example is good in that it was a different time then. Spurrier's system may have worked in today's game. The game is won and lost in space and with the rules it much easier to find space. In addition, Malzahn has been able to create advantages through tempo and formations that teams haven't been able to stop. He's Chip Kelly on steroids. For once I want the guy that's what's next. This game is evolving so fast and you need to be the team controlling things. Malzahn dictates pace instead of reacting to it. I am a big believer that the aggressor wins more often than not. I would rather my team decides how the game will be played instead of reacting to it. Edited October 16, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
The Dean Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 One notable difference between Spurrier and Kelly is the amount of hours of preparation that each of them spent studying film/formulating strategy. Spurrier was very light in this regard as opposed to Kelly who works his butt off to game plan and study opponents. No doubt Spurrier was arrogant beyond belief and half-assed his time in the NFL. I realize he is an extreme case. But if it were only about innovation, then you'd expect him to have done a bit better, no? My point is, success in the NFL is about more than scheme and innovation (though these things are important). You go from managing boys in college to managing men in the NFL. Many of those men now make more than the HC. In college (especially in the SEC and other major conferences) you recruit your players and have an advantage over schools from other conferences. You have HUGE rosters. You can redshirt players who need more time--even if they were highly recruited and on scholarship. In short, the entire lay of the land, professionally, is different in the NFL. Even a year or two as a position coach, or perhaps coordinator, helps a guy learn the ropes. Learn to deal with men--professionals, a smaller roster, coaches who have more experience than you as underlings, form relationships with experienced coaches you may want to work with again, etc. I'm not suggesting it is impossible to succeed in the NFL with no prior experience, but I am saying you are at a disadvantage from the get-to. And there simply are very few who have tried to make this jump and succeeded. I believe if a coach REALLY wants to move to the NFL he should be willing to put in the time at the NFL level at a position below HC. I realize not everyone agrees with this, but I feel strongly about it. BTW, great Bills bill.
Kirby Jackson Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 No doubt Spurrier was arrogant beyond belief and half-assed his time in the NFL. I realize he is an extreme case. But if it were only about innovation, then you'd expect him to have done a bit better, no? My point is, success in the NFL is about more than scheme and innovation (though these things are important). You go from managing boys in college to managing men in the NFL. Many of those men now make more than the HC. In college (especially in the SEC and other major conferences) you recruit your players and have an advantage over schools from other conferences. You have HUGE rosters. You can redshirt players who need more time--even if they were highly recruited and on scholarship. In short, the entire lay of the land, professionally, is different in the NFL. Even a year or two as a position coach, or perhaps coordinator, helps a guy learn the ropes. Learn to deal with men--professionals, a smaller roster, coaches who have more experience than you as underlings, form relationships with experienced coaches you may want to work with again, etc. I'm not suggesting it is impossible to succeed in the NFL with no prior experience, but I am saying you are at a disadvantage from the get-to. And there simply are very few who have tried to make this jump and succeeded. I believe if a coach REALLY wants to move to the NFL he should be willing to put in the time at the NFL level at a position below HC. I realize not everyone agrees with this, but I feel strongly about it. BTW, great Bills bill. Fair points but you will never get someone like Malzahn making $4M-$5M a year to take anything less than a head coaching job. He probably makes more than Marrone. Many of those college jobs are considered superior to many NFL jobs (especially down here in SEC country). In addition, the college game influencing the pros is a recent development due in large part to the success of Harbaugh and Carroll and later Kelly. Also, do not underestimate the importance of recruiting in pro sports today. There are other options if Marrone is not going to be here (I think that he will be). Malzahn is certainly on top of my list. I would also be happy with Frank Reich, Kevin Sumlin (if he had a good d coordinator) or Dan Mullen.
chris heff Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 The Bills once had a guy named Daryl Lamonica, I would consider him a franchise quarterback, but we let him go. One of the worst trades ever, but my criteria was a guy that was with a team for a long time and consistently won.
thewildrabbit Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 Harbaugh spent a year or 2 as a QB coach, Kelly had none, Carroll was a mess in his first stint. It is just different now then 5-10 years ago because of innovation. People used to scream for guys with pro experience and you end up hiring the Lovie Smith's, Norv Turner's and Romeo Crennel's of the world. Take the guy that is the innovator and you will win. I know I'd prefer someone with past success in the NFL as a head coach. I think its abundantly clear that some coaches get smarter as go along in their professions, and some guys don't. Its obvious Chan Gailey didn't, and never should have been hired as a HC when he was recently fired as an OC. You generally promote after some success, and not promote after failure. Gailey's line, you don't know, what you don't know... When you get 2x NFL HCing shots like Pete Carroll, and then go into college and win national championships it shows he was getting smarter. Plus, the man is brilliant in finding, developing young players for his defensive secondary. He started in the NFL as the Bills DB's coach. I think in Lovie Smith's case its crystal clear that the "Tampa two" defense the man likes to run doesn't work so well with ordinary players, and needs specific standouts at certain positions. One big reason why Jauron's defenses always stunk was because unlike Carroll, Jauron doesn't know the difference between a good player and his backside. A good choice for a new Bills HC would be "the chin", as the man knows how to evaluate players. Ex Steeler GM Tom Donahoe lost a power struggle to him at Pittsburgh.(Another dysfunctional hire that was fired as GM, and hired by Buffalo, and then promoted to president) The man knows everything thing there is to know about building a winning team. Who to hire as assistant coaches, and who he wants in the draft. The man was recently on CBS sports talking about building a top O line, run game to help support a young QB. Sounds perfect to me. Then there is Jim Harbaugh who is in constant battle with his current GM http://thebiglead.com/2014/09/25/chip-kelly-got-the-tight-end-jim-harbaugh-wanted-in-the-2013-draft-probably-because-of-trent-baalke/ http://thebiglead.com/2014/10/05/jay-glazer-says-theres-no-way-jim-harbaugh-returns-to-49ers-next-season/ There is talk that the NY Jets are looking at Harbaugh, and we know that the Dolphins already tried to hire him even when they still had another HC on the payroll. Chances are they fire Philbin after this season. Anyway, I think that the dysfunction that has embedded itself the last 14 years of hiring the wrong people by the franchise will be corrected with new ownership.
mannc Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 There are other options if Marrone is not going to be here (I think that he will be). Malzahn is certainly on top of my list. I would also be happy with Frank Reich, Kevin Sumlin (if he had a good d coordinator) or Dan Mullen. No David Shaw?
Kirby Jackson Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 No David Shaw? It's funny that you say that because he used to be high on my list. I think that he has been brutal this year.
Malazan Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 where has that been published? another overrated retired coach? No thanks ^right there. Is there something in the water that people can't keep up with a message board?
jr1 Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 Does this mean porn webmaster Doug Whaley won't be GM next year?
kota Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 Completely surprised why people think this is news. Being the new guy you don't want to drink the coolaid and just believe everything people say. You need to formulate your own opinion based upon what people say in the organization and the outside council. He needs to do his due diligence based upon the fact that the team hasn't sniffed the playoffs in 20 years.
Augie Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 There is talk that the NY Jets are looking at Harbaugh, and we know that the Dolphins already tried to hire him even when they still had another HC on the payroll. Chances are they fire Philbin after this season. Funny how the teams that don't have HOF QB's are always looking for new coaches. Get a top QB and life gets a lot easier. But the right coach can make a big difference, too.
Rico Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 Completely surprised why people think this is news. Being the new guy you don't want to drink the coolaid and just believe everything people say. You need to formulate your own opinion based upon what people say in the organization and the outside council. He needs to do his due diligence based upon the fact that the team hasn't sniffed the playoffs in 20 years. It's only news if you believed the shills who kept telling everyone that upper management/staff is safe at OBD, cause their "connections" tell them so. Ten more games to prove you deserve to stay.
Best Player Available Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 ^right there. Is there something in the water that people can't keep up with a message board? Just your silly rumor mongering I guess. swing again.
DC Tom Posted October 17, 2014 Posted October 17, 2014 Unless that consultant can play offensive guard, I don't really care.
The Wiz Posted October 17, 2014 Posted October 17, 2014 Unless that consultant can play offensive guard, I don't really care. Well even if he can't, he's no worse off than our current guard.
Coach Tuesday Posted October 17, 2014 Posted October 17, 2014 Unless that consultant can play offensive guard, I don't really care. Holmgren > Pears
Manther Posted October 17, 2014 Posted October 17, 2014 Do you need exhalted consultants doing a comprehensive study of the franchise to tell you that what will dramatically change the dynamic of this lumbering organization is a higher caliber franchise qb. That in itself will do more to improve the prospects for this meandering franchise. Under Nix's tenure the organization had multiple opportunities to select good prospects, not necessarily in the first round, who would have offered the fan base some realistic optimism. As it stands it selected EJ and has an invested its future in a prospect that has exhibited significant flaws. If he doesn't work out then this franchise has to go back to the drawing board and start over again to address its most critical need. Is Orton a decent bridge qb? He is what he is: a mediocre qb who knows how to play. But he is also a limited qb who is not going to get you anywhere. Our situation is far from being dire but it is not close to being resolved. When you have a void that hasn't been filled for a generation then what does it say about the wisdom of the people running the operation? The owner can bring in all the costly high-powered consultants he wants without getting the same advice that a druken fan can give: Get a quality qb prospect and get the best bridge qb you can acquire to buy you time for the prospect to develop. The consultants are involved to bring more than information about player personnel. Pegula's aren't professionals in the football world. The consultants are a great idea. You bringing up the QB situation is absolutely narrow minded and either shows your lack of intelligence or eagerness to try to cause problems. I am a little concerned that the names passed around are folks who built franchises years ago not in last few years. I want innovation on offense and defense ala chip kelly. The only thing ha need consultant for is to figure out if the GM is the right guy if not hire the right GM and give him the keys to the car. They will evaluate all positions in the organization and processes. Not just the GM. Ralph Wilson's major failing was not in spending enough money but it was in his hiring of wretchedly mediocre people. If his football hires were at the level of his business hires this would be a sterling franchise. The hiring of Levy as a GM and then Nix, (the checkers player playing in a game of chess) were not simply bad hires but they were outlandish hires. The five years squandered were more than enough time to rebuild a hollow franchise. The shame of it is that if smarter hires were made he could have witnessed success at the end of his distinguished life. Exactly, you need to spend money on the best quality people in your organization from the top down. Like in your scouting departments and into your coaches to train and develop them. Like the Yankees do in baseball. BTW, I do not cheer for the Yanks. But they spend money through thevorgaization and it gets quality long term consistent results! Like the Red Wings in hockey. They need to get the right people in the right seats on the bus starting at the top and working its way down! Consultants and evaluating is a great place to start.
agardin Posted October 17, 2014 Posted October 17, 2014 No to Holmgren. Here's the truth the way I see it. Show me a hall of fame coach and I will show you a hall of fame QB. Does a great coach bring out he best in his players yes but you can't make chicken salad..... The Bills have suffered as every other team without a QB has. Is there anyone out there that can make EJ a pro bowl level player? That would solve a lot of the Bills problems.
26CornerBlitz Posted October 17, 2014 Author Posted October 17, 2014 I have never head Kim Pegula speak. It'll be nice to hear what she has to say: @BuffaloBillsPR Be sure to tune into @KISS985BUFFALO tomorrow morning at 8:30 am when Kim Pegula catches up with @JanetSnyderKISS and @NICKinBUFFALO.
Malazan Posted October 17, 2014 Posted October 17, 2014 Just your silly rumor mongering I guess. swing again. what the hell are you even talking about...the poster was saying Gruden is not good. Someone thought he was talking about Ron Wolf. I corrected him. I don't know what the hell you're talking about. Maybe they offer a class on 'how to message board' somewhere that you can take.
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