CountDorkula Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 If I am Pegula I say "Hey John Gruden, how much are they paying you? I'll double it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 So we all agree that things are not great with the BILLS. But before they put in another unproven system, lets wait and see how this same essential system is working for the Sabres. So far, aside from getting rid of Darcy, no results. Andi f this does happen, put me down for anyone but Pork Faced Holmgren! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 the issue with the Sabres was nothing was done. He decided that Ruff and Regier were fine and additional resources would put them over. Instead it just magnified their shortcomings. as far as "no results"... the team had to rip itself to the studs and get rid of everyone for assets in picks and prospects. They currently have the top prospect pool in the league not counting the 3 1st round draft picks in what looks to be the best draft class in more than a decade. The team is lined up now to become a monster in the NHL for a long time to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) the issue with the Sabres was nothing was done. He decided that Ruff and Regier were fine and additional resources would put them over. Instead it just magnified their shortcomings. as far as "no results"... the team had to rip itself to the studs and get rid of everyone for assets in picks and prospects. They currently have the top prospect pool in the league not counting the 3 1st round draft picks in what looks to be the best draft class in more than a decade. The team is lined up now to become a monster in the NHL for a long time to come. What happened with the Sabres is they made the playoffs when Pegula got there. So instead of starting the rebuild then they went and spent a ton of money to build up around Miller, Roy, Pominville, Stafford, Connolly, and Vanek. The core that was here long before Pegula. If Marrone makes the playoffs, dont expect any firings either. Edited October 13, 2014 by TheTruthHurts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GA BILLS FAN Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 What happened with the Sabres is they made the playoffs when Pegula got there. So instead of starting the rebuild then they went and spent a ton of money to build up around Miller, Roy, Pominville, Stafford, Connolly, and Vanek. The core that was here long before Pegula. If Marrone makes the playoffs, dont expect any firings either. The big notable difference between the two scenarios (assuming Bills make playoffs), the Bills don't have a franchise QB and it's very rare to win the ultimate prize (the SUPERBOWL) without one. I suspect the Pegulas understand that and will put the organizational focus where it belongs, getting a franchise QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 What happened with the Sabres is they made the playoffs when Pegula got there. So instead of starting the rebuild then they went and spent a ton of money to build up around Miller, Roy, Pominville, Stafford, Connolly, and Vanek. If Marrone makes the playoffs, dont expect any firings either. Yup. The fans were pretty angry and sick of it. Golisano/Quinn wouldnt make any changes which was a huge reason Pegula had so much hype. The team was struggling. Again... Then they caught fire for the Spring in a crazy run and took a much better Flyers team to 7 games in a brutal playoff series they should have won... and effectively burned Philly out. So Pegula figured positivity and money would be the key to a quick trip to the top. I do remember he "asked' around about Ruff & Regier and they got positive reviews and he kept them around and even extended them. I dont think Pegula will make the same errors here. Not saying keeping B&W&M etc is a mistake... but I see Pegula certainly bringing in a bigwig football guy to assess and properly structure a winning football program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 The big notable difference between the two scenarios (assuming Bills make playoffs), the Bills don't have a franchise QB and it's very rare to win the ultimate prize (the SUPERBOWL) without one. I suspect the Pegulas understand that and will put the organizational focus where it belongs, getting a franchise QB. You are very likely correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 The big notable difference between the two scenarios (assuming Bills make playoffs), the Bills don't have a franchise QB and it's very rare to win the ultimate prize (the SUPERBOWL) without one. I suspect the Pegulas understand that and will put the organizational focus where it belongs, getting a franchise QB. In Nix's last year he had the scouting staff come up with the best qb prospect in the draft. It was the priority mission of the scouting department. They came up with EJ at the top of their list. I'm not assuming that he is destined to fail but it is obvious that he is a qb with major flaws, accuracy and reads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Do you need exhalted consultants doing a comprehensive study of the franchise to tell you that what will dramatically change the dynamic of this lumbering organization is a higher caliber franchise qb. That in itself will do more to improve the prospects for this meandering franchise. Under Nix's tenure the organization had multiple opportunities to select good prospects, not necessarily in the first round, who would have offered the fan base some realistic optimism. As it stands it selected EJ and has an invested its future in a prospect that has exhibited significant flaws. If he doesn't work out then this franchise has to go back to the drawing board and start over again to address its most critical need. Is Orton a decent bridge qb? He is what he is: a mediocre qb who knows how to play. But he is also a limited qb who is not going to get you anywhere. Our situation is far from being dire but it is not close to being resolved. When you have a void that hasn't been filled for a generation then what does it say about the wisdom of the people running the operation? The owner can bring in all the costly high-powered consultants he wants without getting the same advice that a druken fan can give: Get a quality qb prospect and get the best bridge qb you can acquire to buy you time for the prospect to develop. I don't disagree, but franchise QBs are not easy to find. The Bills have had one in their 55 year history. Kemp was a good game manager, smart, had a great running game and very good defense. Joe Ferguson was a gamer, but franchise? So the only real franchise QB was Kelly. You can say this about most NFL teams. Most have had one or two franchise QBs. If you count Bledsoe the Pats have had two, the Jets one and the Dolphins two. I do believe that it should be easier today than in the past. Free agency helps, and the rookie pay scale means that you can take a shot in the first round. If your wrong it is not a financial disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 You are very likely correct. It is futile to go back at look at some of the lost opportunties to find a quality qb but Nix set this franchise back by years when he passed over prospects such as Wilson and Kaepernick, and to a lesser extent Dalton, who could have addressed the critical need. Passing over Russell Wilson for the "track" receiver, Graham, who would have been availability in the next round was a blunder that still haunts this bedraggled franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) The big notable difference between the two scenarios (assuming Bills make playoffs), the Bills don't have a franchise QB and it's very rare to win the ultimate prize (the SUPERBOWL) without one. I suspect the Pegulas understand that and will put the organizational focus where it belongs, getting a franchise QB. Not really, because the NHL equivalent to a franchise QB is a franchise #1 center, which the Sabres have been looking for as well. They are tanking to acquire that franchise center. Before the tank though they tried to sign Brad Richards and trade for Jordan Staal. Neither wanted Buffalo, and good thing IMO. Right now is the best thing for the Sabres. Will take time, but 2-3 years. Edited October 13, 2014 by TheTruthHurts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 It is futile to go back at look at some of the lost opportunties to find a quality qb but Nix set this franchise back by years when he passed over prospects such as Wilson and Kaepernick, and to a lesser extent Dalton, who could have addressed the critical need. Passing over Russell Wilson for the "track" receiver, Graham, who would have been availability in the next round was a blunder that still haunts this bedraggled franchise. Indeed...extra points for "bedraggled"...wonderful word usage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) I don't disagree, but franchise QBs are not easy to find. The Bills have had one in their 55 year history. Kemp was a good game manager, smart, had a great running game and very good defense. Joe Ferguson was a gamer, but franchise? So the only real franchise QB was Kelly. You can say this about most NFL teams. Most have had one or two franchise QBs. If you count Bledsoe the Pats have had two, the Jets one and the Dolphins two. If you can't come up with a franchise qb in over a generation then you should close shop and get out of the business. Kaepernick, Wilson, Foles, Dalton etc were on the board below the first round that were available. When you are a qb starved franchise and still avoid the opportunities that other teams seize then the problem is oneself. I do believe that it should be easier today than in the past. Free agency helps, and the rookie pay scale means that you can take a shot in the first round. If your wrong it is not a financial disaster. Those conditions that you cite have been in existence for the past few year. Excuses are unacceptable. Edited October 13, 2014 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) Indeed...extra points for "bedraggled"...wonderful word usage. Ralph Wilson's major failing was not in spending enough money but it was in his hiring of wretchedly mediocre people. If his football hires were at the level of his business hires this would be a sterling franchise. The hiring of Levy as a GM and then Nix, (the checkers player playing in a game of chess) were not simply bad hires but they were outlandish hires. The five years squandered were more than enough time to rebuild a hollow franchise. The shame of it is that if smarter hires were made he could have witnessed success at the end of his distinguished life. Edited October 13, 2014 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 If I am Pegula I say "Hey John Gruden, how much are they paying you? I'll double it" he doesn't know football like he pretends to know football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Ralph Wilson's major failing was not in spending enough money but it was in his hiring of wretchedly mediocre people. If his football hires were at the level of his business hires this would be a sterling franchise. The hiring of Levy as a GM and then Nix, (the checkers player playing in a game of chess) were not simply bad hires but they were outlandish hires. The five years squandered were more than enough time to rebuild a hollow franchise. The shame of it is that if smarter hires were made he could have witnessed success at the end of his distinguished life. All true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 he doesn't know football like he pretends to know football Yeah, Im not a Gruden fan. Overrated coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GA BILLS FAN Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) [/b] In Nix's last year he had the scouting staff come up with the best qb prospect in the draft. It was the priority mission of the scouting department. They came up with EJ at the top of their list. I'm not assuming that he is destined to fail but it is obvious that he is a qb with major flaws, accuracy and reads. I didn't have an issue with the Bills drafting EJ -- my issue is that over the last 7 drafts, the Bills had 33 picks in the 4th round or higher and the ONLY QB they drafted was EJ --- to me, if you don't have a franchise QB in a sport that requires one to succeed, you invest a whole lot more -- to me that's an organizational failing, not just a Nix failing Edited October 13, 2014 by TXBILLSFAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I would be really surprised if all 3 weren't here in 2015. Marrone is the only one that there is even a CHANCE of not being here. Russ will be there as long as he wants to be and Whaley has a pretty long leash as well. After everybody going all-in on Manuel and then trading the 2015 1st-round pick to get Watkins, if this team ends up with a losing record and the offense continues to struggle, I don't think any of them should feel safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) After everybody going all-in on Manuel and then trading the 2015 1st-round pick to get Watkins, if this team ends up with a losing record and the offense continues to struggle, I don't think any of them should feel safe. We can ride this roller coaster all year (and I'm sure we all will). The Bills will finish with a pretty good record (schedule is really easy) and have a good deal of talent. Whaley and Russ will be back and Marrone most likely. This doesn't mean that the team will max out their potential but enough will be done to keep the group together. Edited October 16, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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