Hitting on All Cylinders But 2 !!

[mrags]

 

There are holes. CJ can't see them. He never has and never will.

i second this. Well, actually I probably was the 1st for this. I just watched the lions game a second time the other day. I didn't let in on every single run by CJ but probably half or so I picked out easily noticeable holes that CJ COULD have hit but didn't. In those 5 plays I watched he was 0-2 yards on every play. He had options on every single one of them that he could have cut left instead of right, bounced outside instead of up the middle, stayed up the middle instead of outside. Numerous plays where he just made the wrong decision. Wrong read. Any football player can run the ball through a hole the size of a Mack Truck. It's the good ones that see the small holes and capitalize on them before the small holes become no holes. Freddy does that. Other good RBs do too. CJ doesn't. And as a RB in this league, that's not a good lack of a trait to have.

[thewildrabbit]

There are holes. CJ can't see them. He never has and never will.

Sure, just like Marshawn Lynch couldn't see them either, so they shipped him out. EDIT: What I find incredibly ironic is that Hackett's dream RB would be Lynch up the middle in a cloud of dust carrying 3 defenders on him. These scrub coaches always want someone different, and fail to utilize what they have.

 

Spiller is keyed on and gets tackled in the backfield quite a bit, so exactly how is that his fault? The biggest problem with CJ is he keeps getting compared to Fred Jackson, and not many many RB's can do what Fredex does. In making the first three defenders miss him to make his yards.

 

Spiller gets the hand-off out of the shotgun on a draw play, and is expected to run to daylight... when there is none. Have you seen how poorly the current OG's are blocking? This is all on the Bills OC Nathaniel Hackett who is running a Syracuse JV run game in the NFL. Without a decent run game Kyle Orton is doomed.

 

I'd say the current success in winning games by being incredibly lucky is unsustainable. I doubt the Patriots kicker misses 3 FG's, or they lose the starting 3 RB's and are forced to use the 4th string RB. Lose their best receiver for the game on one play.

 

And to add to Kelly the dog's post above. With a good run game the Bills more then likely beat the Texans just like Dallas did. But unlike Dallas the Bills have two utter garbage at OG, and until that changes it will be difficult to build a decent run game. IMO

Edited October 11, 2014 by FeartheLosing

[Kelly the Dog]

Another element of the CJ debate is that fans expect him to make the right decision 80-90% of the time. And they watch plays and they are 100% correct that if CJ would have just forgot about trying to break it and got every yard he could have, like Fred does, he would have got 3 instead of 1 or 2 instead of -1. And again, they would be right. But they don't see or concede that if he did that on some of his 10-15-20-25 yards runs, those would be 2,3 yards.

 

He's still averaging 5.0 yards for his career. That's phenomenal. He doesn't (except for one game this year) get 2 yards every time and then run for 30, nor does he run for 1-0-2-1-3- minus 2-35. That's a gross exaggeration and not even close to the truth. He gets 4-6-8-10-12 yard carries all the time. Fred gets every inch out of every carry and CJ averages more per carry (right now he doesn't this year, I know, but most of the time he does and everyone thinks Fred is incredible including me).

[Kemp]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/10/08/offensive-line-rankings-2/

 

According to Pro Football Focus, the problems can be traced directly to the worst offensive line in the NFL.

 

 

 

[CardinalScotts]

quit putting it on the coaches we did this last year with the special teams coach, now we are blaming the o line coach? As far as the offensive coordinator while hackett was hamstung with EJ they now have a veteran QB the problem is he's going to take a bit to work off the rust. EJ is a bad inside runner but Fred isn't, why does Fred have a great yard per carry average again and CJ doesn't. The offensive line specifically the guards are terrible combined with playing probably the four best defensive lines in the NFL (Dolphins, Texans, Chargers, Lions) has made it look worse. The upside you only get better playing better d- given a chance to play some teams not quite as good I think the O-line will look better

[thebandit27]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/10/08/offensive-line-rankings-2/

 

According to Pro Football Focus, the problems can be traced directly to the worst offensive line in the NFL.

 

Well that concludes the discussion...

 

Except that the worst OL in the NFL in 2013, according to PFF, belonged to the Seattle Seahawks.

 

The OGs have been underwhelming, although I like Richardson as a run blocker.

 

The biggest issue in the running game is CJ just can't read blocks like Fred can.

 

I think many folks just don't understand that these gaping holes for RBs are quite uncommon in the NFL. Most often, running games work because an OL creates a small crease that the RB hits at the right time for a 5-yard pickup.

 

I noticed against Detroit that the creases are definitely there--part of the issue is this delayed garbage out of the gun. It takes too long to get back to the LOS and the crease is gone half the time. The other part is that there are times that a RB needs to allow a blocking set to develop--CJ hasn't done well with this at all.

 

I think the switch in OL mentality from when Marrone took over really hurt CJ in terms of reading blocks as well. He just hasn't adjusted well.

 

[H2o]

The OL not yet coming together is the biggest detractor on this team imo. The lack luster play at the OG positions is really disheartening. Even still the running game hasn't been as horrible as it could be because we have a guy like Fred Jackson. The ageless wonder is showing us once again who is the lead horse for our team. At least we are able to accomplish enough to keep opposing defenses honest for the most part.

 

I say second would be the play calling at times. Hackett still hasn't opened things up this year that much more so than last. You could say he was dumming down the offense for EJ and this will change now that we have Orton in there over time, but it may just be what type of coach Hackett is. CJ has ALL the talent in the world, but can't put it together on the field either due to himself or an OC not utilizing him properly. Our OC should KNOW he needs to get this guy the ball in space. Screens, swing passes, wheel routes, draws, shotgun sweeps, bubble screens, tosses, I mean anything. He is a threat to go the distance every time he touches the ball. I would also like to see Bryce Brown a bit more. The guy ran hard in Philly, but did have some fumble issues. It's almost like they have him redshirted and are waiting for Spiller's departure in the offseason before they put him to work.

 

The defense is playing outstanding right now under Schwartz. This is the first time we have been able to stop the run consistently in what, 5 or 6 years? Let's not waste this opportunity. No playoffs in 15 years and this looks like our best opportunity to end that drought since Bledsoe couldn't handle Pitt's 3rd string. If the OL comes together, Orton stays healthy, and Hackett starts to open up by using the talent we have then this division is ripe for the taking, our taking.

[Kemp]

Well that concludes the discussion...

 

Except that the worst OL in the NFL in 2013, according to PFF, belonged to the Seattle Seahawks.

 

The OGs have been underwhelming, although I like Richardson as a run blocker.

 

The biggest issue in the running game is CJ just can't read blocks like Fred can.

 

I think many folks just don't understand that these gaping holes for RBs are quite uncommon in the NFL. Most often, running games work because an OL creates a small crease that the RB hits at the right time for a 5-yard pickup.

 

I noticed against Detroit that the creases are definitely there--part of the issue is this delayed garbage out of the gun. It takes too long to get back to the LOS and the crease is gone half the time. The other part is that there are times that a RB needs to allow a blocking set to develop--CJ hasn't done well with this at all.

 

I think the switch in OL mentality from when Marrone took over really hurt CJ in terms of reading blocks as well. He just hasn't adjusted well.

 

That site does pretty good work and it's hard to argue with the idea that the OL is the worst part of the team, at present.

 

For all of the positive chatter about Seantrel, he hasn't been very good. Yes, I know he is a rookie, but where he was drafted is irrelevant.

[FLFan]

We don't run a spread because EJ needed an "easier" scheme. It's hard to change that mid-season. I wouldn't be surprised if down the road, we "open" it up a little more.

I agree they were apparently trying to simplify for EJ. However, they definitely have the offensive scheme available. It is just a question of when and where they are going to feel comfortable with Orton. This could be the week. I hope so, because going 3 wide and spreading NE out seems the best way to attack them to me.

[thebandit27]

 

 

That site does pretty good work and it's hard to argue with the idea that the OL is the worst part of the team, at present.

 

For all of the positive chatter about Seantrel, he hasn't been very good. Yes, I know he is a rookie, but where he was drafted is irrelevant.

 

Some things they're okay with; much of their analyses are quite subjective though.

 

As to the OL, I think if Henderson is the weak link on the OL they'd be in great shape.

 

My opinion is that Richardson needs to play out the season at LG, then drop about 15 lbs in the offseason. If also go after a pulling guard like Clint Boling in FA as well.

[FLFan]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/10/08/offensive-line-rankings-2/

 

According to Pro Football Focus, the problems can be traced directly to the worst offensive line in the NFL.

Seems about right.

[cjatcreek07]

There is no question right now our guards are a big weakness. I've never felt this good about a Bills team since the 1999 season though. Imagine if in the next couple years through the draft and free agency we add a couple stud guards, a better tight end so chandler can be very productive as a TE #2, a young qb, and more young depth at other positions we will be stacked!!!

Edited October 11, 2014 by LoyalToTheEnd

[die hard bills fan]

Totally agree.

[FireChan]

Sure, just like Marshawn Lynch couldn't see them either, so they shipped him out. EDIT: What I find incredibly ironic is that Hackett's dream RB would be Lynch up the middle in a cloud of dust carrying 3 defenders on him. These scrub coaches always want someone different, and fail to utilize what they have.

 

Spiller is keyed on and gets tackled in the backfield quite a bit, so exactly how is that his fault? The biggest problem with CJ is he keeps getting compared to Fred Jackson, and not many many RB's can do what Fredex does. In making the first three defenders miss him to make his yards.

 

Spiller gets the hand-off out of the shotgun on a draw play, and is expected to run to daylight... when there is none. Have you seen how poorly the current OG's are blocking? This is all on the Bills OC Nathaniel Hackett who is running a Syracuse JV run game in the NFL. Without a decent run game Kyle Orton is doomed.

 

I'd say the current success in winning games by being incredibly lucky is unsustainable. I doubt the Patriots kicker misses 3 FG's, or they lose the starting 3 RB's and are forced to use the 4th string RB. Lose their best receiver for the game on one play.

 

And to add to Kelly the dog's post above. With a good run game the Bills more then likely beat the Texans just like Dallas did. But unlike Dallas the Bills have two utter garbage at OG, and until that changes it will be difficult to build a decent run game. IMO

 

Marshawn Lynch was shipped out because he was a criminal. Show me a guy who Buffalo let go and dominated elsewhere, please.

 

Spiller's numbers would vastly improve if his decision making improved. It's the easy road to just say, "rah rah o-line, play calling, space!" He himself is the main reason he's being held back, clearly he isn't "the next Barry Sanders," in this scheme.

[The Frankish Reich]

Considering we have a front 5 plus te and rb chip blocking and still having issues keeping a pocket, I don't see a 4 wr set until the guards get better/replaced.

 

I do agree a 4 wr set would help cj but unless the blocking holds he will still do his typical 1 yard, try to bounce it out, end of play.

Exactly. The play of the O line has been by far the biggest disappointment this year. If they can pull it together enough to become acceptable -- kind of low average in quality -- this team, with Orton, is really solid-to-excellent in all other phases. But until that happens, we'll see more TEs staying in to chip, more Fred (or Summers? Dixon?) staying in on passing downs to block, etc. I hope it does come together because that Sammy-Woods-Goodwin-Williams thing would be something to see if Orton could ever get enough time. (And let me throw this out there: Orton will make nice use of Hogan. I know he gets beat up here, but Hogan is a poor man's Welker in waiting. OK, a homeless man's Welker. But still, we need that slot guy)

[BackInDaDay]

CJ might have more success as a tailback out of the I - where he'd get a better look at the line play.. with our assortment of receiving threats, the thought of him bouncing outside could force a base D to widen up to defend the edge, or sacrifice coverage to contain.

[thebandit27]

CJ might have more success as a tailback out of the I - where he'd get a better look at the line play.. with our assortment of receiving threats, the thought of him bouncing outside could force a base D to widen up to defend the edge, or sacrifice coverage to contain.

 

I'm not surprised to see you say that.

 

I really think that the delayed stuff out of the gun is causing him to miss chances to hit the creases that are there.

[BackInDaDay]

I'm not surprised to see you say that.

 

yeah - guess i need to self-scout - always preaching timing, timing, timing

 

I really think that the delayed stuff out of the gun is causing him to miss chances to hit the creases that are there.

 

i hear ya, but if he isn't gonna hit the hole like a true halfback, then at least get him moving towards the line.. those flat footed handoffs out of the shotgun all come off looking like aborted draws.

[Uncle Joe]

What I have noticed most with Spiller under both Chan and Doug is that he is not good at pass blocking. I think Ds are aware of this and stack the LOS anticipating the run with CJ as the lone back. 2 back sets with Fred and CJ, as well as quick reads to multiple WR sets with CJ as the lone back, could help open up the running game.

I just can't see the value with CJ as the lone back in the shotgun unless you can make a quick pass downfield to keep the defense honest.

[billsfan89]

The defense is playing well and the QB has only spent 5 weeks on the roster so that probably makes out game plans really conservative. Orton probably knows a limited amount of the play book so they are probably easing him into the more subtle parts of the offense. Also when the defense is playing well it makes you run the ball and play to limit mistakes. I think as the year goes on Orton will have the offense open up more (The defense is bound to have a bad game here or there which might require it).