Green Lightning Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Approach towards player and personel management can be learned, as well as work ethic. Those aren't what's being discussed, however. Were talking about week to week x's and o's, and game by game planning for a unique opponent every single week. Nothing about Pepper's stay in New England will help him know devine some mystical way to eliminate Gronkowski. Hours of film study, analyzing the game plans of teams who have mitigated his impact on the game will. Film study also tells you how to take the starch out of Brady: constant pressure that moves him off his spot, takes him out of rythem with his receivers, and doesn't allow his downfield routes to develop Fine, but there is still value to understanding how a person thinks through one's working with them This is the dumbest thing I've read on these boards in moths, and that's really saying something. Excellent! Reading in moths is really saying something! Short of the typo, it's almost irresistible to take a poke at posters on high horses with little tolerance. I trust our coaches are studying film and picking the brains of those who have served the Dark Lord in NE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 (edited) Yes. Really. No, not really. Those are put in week by week as a specific game plan. Pepper Johnson's knowledge of last year's game plan will have no bearing on this year's game. This is now the 3rd time I'm saying this: I didn't say he'd know the game plan, and neither did anyone else. We are talking about coaching points and approach, not the game plan. The fact that you keep ignoring this and talking about the game plan reads like a straw man. The code changes every week. Some of the terminology changes every week. Teams don't often change how they coach or the principles on which they implement their game plan. No, it really isn't. After re-reading Yolo's posts, yes, it really is; I'm starting to wonder if you've read them thoroughly yourself. You're a smart poster, and you watch a lot of football, so the disconnect seems very odd in this case. Some people have been repeating this. It doesn't make it true. Others keep repeating "it's all on film"; that likewise doesn't make it true. Edited October 10, 2014 by thebandit27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Calm down, guys. Everything IS on film. And now that the NFL offers an All-22 view on Game Rewind, us real fans can know absolutely everything about the teams. Thanks, NFL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackInDaDay Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Pepper's D line may have more responsibilities against the Pats if Schwarz elects to use some wide 9 alignments to keep their TEs from getting clean releases off the line. when the TEs are in tight, the DEs could go to the wider technique to funnel them into a combo of LBs or LB/SS. when they split, our DEs could play an inside tech, chipping them to an outside LB/SS combo. anything like that would have to be coordinated with how our DTs attack their middle - penetrating? playing two gaps? stunting? stunting? blitzing with an additional defender? wherever we take a body away from our base to implement the above, we'll have to do our best to disguise where we've weakened ourselves.. for instance, we'll probably have many occasions where we have to put at least one DB in a man situation with a wide out - just to have enough bodies to defend the rest of the field. so with Brady being pretty sharp, he'll spot that more than not - so disrupting his timing by disrupting his TEs is huge. when they're not on the field, or if they split them out like slot guys, i'd jam them/WRs with who ever i'm not zone-blitzing Brady with. if we flood the middle, to make him get the ball out sooner than he'd like, we have to cover the screen/flat passes that can break the Pats are a mismatch problem for any D, and know going into any game, that their opponent is going to try to bring pressure up the middle and disrupt Brady's receivers - but that has to be our first priority. we have to win the los between their tackles - everything works off of that. so yeah - Peppers and the rest of the coaches will have to plan a coordinated effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 This is now the 3rd time I'm saying this: I didn't say he'd know the game plan, and neither did anyone else. We are talking about coaching points and approach, not the game plan. The fact that you keep ignoring this and talking about the game plan reads like a straw man. Speak to the differences around the coaching points and approach around the NFL, and how they aren't refected through the outcomes seen on film. Some of the terminology changes every week. Teams don't often change how they coach or the principles on which they implement their game plan. Bingo! The strategy that coaches put in place to deal with various defenses, packages, and situations (which is the refection of how they coach, and their principles) is all on film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 It's all on film. All of it. do you really believe that watching tape of a team is as insightful as being educated in the system? Even stat sights acknowledge they don't know what assignments players had on any given play. Either you're attached to the prideful position you've taken..... Or you're having a bad day.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Everything's on film - except what Goodell burned. So if everything is on film why'd Goodell burn the spy tapes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Pepper's D line may have more responsibilities against the Pats if Schwarz elects to use some wide 9 alignments to keep their TEs from getting clean releases off the line. when the TEs are in tight, the DEs could go to the wider technique to funnel them into a combo of LBs or LB/SS. when they split, our DEs could play an inside tech, chipping them to an outside LB/SS combo. anything like that would have to be coordinated with how our DTs attack their middle - penetrating? playing two gaps? stunting? stunting? blitzing with an additional defender? wherever we take a body away from our base to implement the above, we'll have to do our best to disguise where we've weakened ourselves.. for instance, we'll probably have many occasions where we have to put at least one DB in a man situation with a wide out - just to have enough bodies to defend the rest of the field. so with Brady being pretty sharp, he'll spot that more than not - so disrupting his timing by disrupting his TEs is huge. when they're not on the field, or if they split them out like slot guys, i'd jam them/WRs with who ever i'm not zone-blitzing Brady with. if we flood the middle, to make him get the ball out sooner than he'd like, we have to cover the screen/flat passes that can break the Pats are a mismatch problem for any D, and know going into any game, that their opponent is going to try to bring pressure up the middle and disrupt Brady's receivers - but that has to be our first priority. we have to win the los between their tackles - everything works off of that. so yeah - Peppers and the rest of the coaches will have to plan a coordinated effort. Pressuring Brady consistently, and forcing the Patriots to react by keeping the TE's tight to the line, and leaving them in pass protection, or simply forcing them into dump-offs after late releases, taking their seam routes out of the game as shown to be effective where it can be implemented as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damj Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 He's been sleeping at a Holiday Inn Express all week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 (edited) Pepper's D line may have more responsibilities against the Pats if Schwarz elects to use some wide 9 alignments to keep their TEs from getting clean releases off the line. when the TEs are in tight, the DEs could go to the wider technique to funnel them into a combo of LBs or LB/SS. when they split, our DEs could play an inside tech, chipping them to an outside LB/SS combo. anything like that would have to be coordinated with how our DTs attack their middle - penetrating? playing two gaps? stunting? stunting? blitzing with an additional defender? wherever we take a body away from our base to implement the above, we'll have to do our best to disguise where we've weakened ourselves.. for instance, we'll probably have many occasions where we have to put at least one DB in a man situation with a wide out - just to have enough bodies to defend the rest of the field. so with Brady being pretty sharp, he'll spot that more than not - so disrupting his timing by disrupting his TEs is huge. when they're not on the field, or if they split them out like slot guys, i'd jam them/WRs with who ever i'm not zone-blitzing Brady with. if we flood the middle, to make him get the ball out sooner than he'd like, we have to cover the screen/flat passes that can break the Pats are a mismatch problem for any D, and know going into any game, that their opponent is going to try to bring pressure up the middle and disrupt Brady's receivers - but that has to be our first priority. we have to win the los between their tackles - everything works off of that. so yeah - Peppers and the rest of the coaches will have to plan a coordinated effort. Agreed. I've been saying all week that I fully expect to see quite a bit of man coverage on the boundaries. I think Gilmore/McKelvin/Graham can win the boundary matchups with Lafell etc. I also think I like the idea of a disguising the Robey-Edelman matchup on the inside; show man coverage and play zone in the middle 1/3--use Robey as a blitzer some too. Speak to the differences around the coaching points and approach around the NFL, and how they aren't refected through the outcomes seen on film. Bingo! The strategy that coaches put in place to deal with various defenses, packages, and situations (which is the refection of how they coach, and their principles) is all on film. No, it isn't. I don't know why you think that. The results of the strategies they implement are on film; the reasoning behind them is not. Edited October 10, 2014 by thebandit27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Yes. Really. Those are put in week by week as a specific game plan. Pepper Johnson's knowledge of last year's game plan will have no bearing on this year's game. The code changes every week. No, it really isn't. Some people have been repeating this. It doesn't make it true. It really was, actually. I don't know how else to explain it. I thought it was common knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 do you really believe that watching tape of a team is as insightful as being educated in the system? Watching a game or two? Or ten? Absolutely not. Watching hundereds of hours of broken down coaches film? Yes. That's how you learn the system. Further, how much time to you think Pepper Johnson spend studying the Patriots offense during his time in New England? Or do you think he might have spent his time studying opposing offenses in order to, you know, build a defensive game plan against them? Even stat sights acknowledge they don't know what assignments players had on any given play. Right. Because they aren't coaches breaking down hundereds of hours of game film in order to understand those assignments. They are doing a casual break down in order to drawn out statistics. Either you're attached to the prideful position you've taken..... Or you're having a bad day.... Actually, it's that I know what I'm talking about. You should absolutely feel free to continue to be wrong, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Everything's on film - except what Goodell burned. So if everything is on film why'd Goodell burn the spy tapes? Makes you wonder why they bother closing off practices. Or not showing their meetings on NFLN. It's all on film anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Agreed. I've been saying all week that I fully expect to see quite a bit of man coverage on the boundaries. I think Gilmore/McKelvin/Graham can win the boundary matchups with Lafell etc. I also think I like the idea of a disguising the Robey-Edelman matchup on the inside; show man coverage and play zone in the middle 1/3--use Robey as a blitzer some too. [/i] No, it isn't. I don't know why you think that. The results of the strategies they implement are on film; the reasoning behind them is not. How complicated is the reasoning? Do you really think Belicheck is a great coach because he has a secret reason to create mismatches with Gronk and an LB? What possibilities of reasoning are there in running a smash concept or any other passing concept other than getting a man open against a certain coverage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Makes you wonder why they bother closing off practices. Or not showing their meetings on NFLN. It's all on film anyway. Good grief... Because that's where the individual game plans are implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Watching a game or two? Or ten? Absolutely not. Watching hundereds of hours of broken down coaches film? Yes. That's how you learn the system. Further, how much time to you think Pepper Johnson spend studying the Patriots offense during his time in New England? Or do you think he might have spent his time studying opposing offenses in order to, you know, build a defensive game plan against them? Right. Because they aren't coaches breaking down hundereds of hours of game film in order to understand those assignments. They are doing a casual break down in order to drawn out statistics. Actually, it's that I know what I'm talking about. You should absolutely feel free to continue to be wrong, however. He wasn't studying it in order to defend it. He was part of the coaching staff. Game planning meetings. Training camp, where he practiced against it for many years. Scouting meetings. Draft meetings. Before anyone is placed on a draft board the coaches must present to the scouting department how they will use them and why they will be effective in the system and against opponents' systems, especially within the division. The level of detail is something most of us will never realize. I think the bottom line is you don't feel he will lend any advantage to stopping the NE TEs. The result may show that they were not stopped. But that would be for lack of player execution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 How complicated is the reasoning? Do you really think Belicheck is a great coach because he has a secret reason to create mismatches with Gronk and an LB? What possibilities of reasoning are there in running a smash concept or any other passing concept other than getting a man open against a certain coverage? Obviously the desire is to get a guy open. I never said he had secret reasons to create mismatches. I'm speaking more to pre-snap adjustments etc., how those things are communicated, how players are instructed to make reads etc. on option routes, and so on. Honestly this topic has gone goofy with the way things are being debated now. Some folks believe that you can watch hours and hours of film and know absolutely everything. Others think that's not the case. I've made clear where I fall on the issue. I'm ready to leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Good grief... Because that's where the individual game plans are implemented. But its all on film... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickelCity Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Well this thread turned out to be just delightful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Well this thread turned out to be just delightful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts