Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 At this point, I'm not concerned with the long term future. Let's worry about this Sunday and take it week to week. Now this, I can embrace. At this point, I'm not concerned with the long term future. Let's worry about this Sunday and take it week to week. Now this, I can wholeheartedly endorse. One game at a time, boys. Win the next one. Then the next one. Then the one after that......
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 2 more pages in the last few hours .... Lets see.... Here are 4 reasons Chicago Denver KC Dallas
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 I can't help but see a lot of similarities with this Bills QB situation with Orton and the Cardinals situation a few years ago with Warner. Both were good veterans brought in to back-up a talented but raw young QB. Both of those QB's got hurt leaving the veteran to take over the team. I'm not saying the same thing will happen (I'd say it's extremely unlikely that it will but, I hope it does) what I'm saying is that this Bills team reminds me of that Cardinals team. Both offenses consisted of dynamic playmakers and good defenses. All Warner needed to do was be smart and manage games to win and he ended up doing much more. All Orton needs to do is be smart and manage the game. Again, I don't know if lightening can strike twice but I hope it does. It's certainly a more exciting team to watch right now with Orton in there. I hope EJ learns what he needs to and can eventually take the reigns back, then they won't have to use another draft pick on a QB. Warner is one of the most accuarte passers in NFL history and a Hall of Famer. Orton has been at best, a servicable starter. Yes, there's a chance 4 teams completely overlooked his abilities. I'm thinking it's very small and he is a stop gap.
JC2002 Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 You are honestly saying you are ok with Orton taking on Rodgers, Wilson, Kaep, Manning, Brady, Rivers, Brees in the playoffs? The rules are basically set up for QBs to run wild and put up gaudy numbers. A journeyman backup doesn't win us a championship and I'd be shocked if we won a playoff game. After watching Fitz try his hardest for 3 years you think this board would have caught on. The Pats* are not going away. The put up 40+ against a very good defense last week. The demise of the Pats* has been wildly exaggerated. Im saying after like 15 years only a nut would worry about something like that . The goal is to get there and play the games and you evaluate your team and its players when you get there not on what you perceive from some crystal ball to be the great play of opponents before you even play the game . Orton wont be taking on those qbs that will be our DEFENSE and Ill put our defense up against any of those qbs . Orton will be matched up against the defenses of those qbs teams and the only one that really is lethal is Seattle at home If we get to see Rodgers,Kaep,Brees or Wilson it will be neutral site and it will mean we are in the SB . We win our division and like our chances against anyone in our conference with Orton and not because hes the greatest but because if we win our division and get a home field game we will have proven that we are one of the better teams in the league and have a shot regardless of who the other team has at QB Warner is one of the most accuarte passers in NFL history and a Hall of Famer. Orton has been at best, a servicable starter. Yes, there's a chance 4 teams completely overlooked his abilities. I'm thinking it's very small and he is a stop gap. The Bears drafted him of course they didnt over look his abilities the Broncos traded for him of course they didn't over look his abilities The Chiefs picked up off waivers of course the didn't overlook his abilities The Cowboys signed orton to a nice deal of course they didn't over look his abilities We signed him to a nice deal as well so I don't think we are overlooking his abilities the fact is that being a starting qb in the NFL is as much about luck as well as opportunity and circumstances .
Prickly Pete Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 I doubt he can keep up with a very good offensive team. I can see him MAYBE winning a Wildcard game, but no more. I hope I'm wrong. He hasn't been a starter since the league clamped down on DB's though. Maybe that will benefit his game in unforeseen ways. Just having the balls to make a throw goes a long way these days. It's like you are twice as likely to get a PI, but you gotta throw it first, or you'll never get a call.
Luxy312 Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 Orton isn't the long term answer because he hasn't been the long term answer anywhere else. Let's not forget that he lost his starting job TWICE to Tim Tebow. His career completion percentage playing for stellar Chicago and Denver offenses was no better than EJ Manuel. Take a step back and actually look at the Lions game. They didn't win that game because of the offense. They won that game because the defense completely shut down the Lions. To boot, that 7 points for Detroit on the pick-6 could very well have been the ballgame. But for Dan Carpenters big leg, that game would have been yet another loss and yet another pitiful performance from the offense. If the Patriots come out and score 30+ points on this team, they will NOT win the game.
PeoriaAZBillsFan Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 Warner is one of the most accuarte passers in NFL history and a Hall of Famer. Orton has been at best, a servicable starter. Yes, there's a chance 4 teams completely overlooked his abilities. I'm thinking it's very small and he is a stop gap. It's very likely you're right. All I'm saying is that they've both were put into a similar position. I think our offense is the best offense that Orton has been around and I'm cautiously excited to see what he can do with it. I'm not ready to put him in that category, I just think that potential is there.
billykaykay Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 That brings up so many questions to be honest...... - So many teams have moved on from him to a draft pick - So many teams draft pick ended up not being as good as Orton - QBs dont hang around in the league if they cant play BUT - Why do teams keep moving on from him in the past? Is it possible that he has just found the perfect fit? I feel like teams too often have leaned on him instead of biulding up teams around him. As a rookie, he started when the starting QB went down for the year. He, as a rookie, led the Bears to the playoffs. The following year, the job was given back to the starter.In Denver, I remember his having a very good year - throwing deep to Brandon LLoyd. They were a terrific combination that year. He eventually succumbed to the irrational fans screaming for Tebow & getting their way when mgmt started Tebow over him. Orton is a damn good QB. He is no Brady, Manning etc. If we don't run him out of town after a bad game, he will prove to be a serviceable QB that is capable of taking a decent team to the playoffs. Just my opinion.
Prickly Pete Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) It's very likely you're right. All I'm saying is that they've both were put into a similar position. I think our offense is the best offense that Orton has been around and I'm cautiously excited to see what he can do with it. I'm not ready to put him in that category, I just think that potential is there. Where is the evidence that this is such a great offense? The running game is not very strong. The O-line has been pretty bad sometimes, the WR's are unproven, the TE is avg at best, and the OC obviously isn't one of the top coordinators in the league, so what are you talking about? Edited October 8, 2014 by HoF Watkins
billykaykay Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 I could see him being the QB for the next handful of seasons, as we figure out a QB to develop, but that's not "long term" to me. I feel like "long term" is a guy you get as a rookie and retires on your team... Oh, also, regarding Fitz/Orton... If the 2011-2012 Bills had our current defense, I think they would have made the playoffs. So as long as we keep a strong defense, we can get by with an inconsistent "average" QB, while we figure out a young QB to develop (whether it be EJ or someone else). Brady might be the only one to fit your definition of long term. Four or five years is a lifetime in the NFL>
Big Gun Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 5 pages on this? pardon me for saying this but ..... holy crap people need to get a life . a dozen redundant QB threads and this one is the hottest? Yeah so, don't you have better things to do, like play in traffic or something!
Maddog69 Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 The funny thing is, the pass that Sammy caught that set up the winning FG was about 1 inch away from being intercepted and returned for the game losing TD or FG. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. We won last week. This week is going to be a TOUGH game.
Big Gun Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 Do any of you really truly within your hearts envision Kyle Orton raising the Lombardi trophy in a Bills uniform??? If you really truly do, then yes, he is the long-term answer. Unfortunately I envision (at best) a wildcard berth with a first round exit. I looked at your name quick and thought it said manboobs.
Luxy312 Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 It's very likely you're right. All I'm saying is that they've both were put into a similar position. I think our offense is the best offense that Orton has been around and I'm cautiously excited to see what he can do with it. I'm not ready to put him in that category, I just think that potential is there. Not even close. Orton has gotten to throw to the likes of Brandon Marshall, Dez Bryant, Jason Witten, Miles Austin, etc. He's also sat behind some very solid offensive lines and STILL not really done a lot. Before the Bills, he had 2,265 passing attempts. That's a pretty good sample size to pretty much know what we're getting. This is his 10th season in the NFL as well. His "upside" if you want to even call it that has been played out already.
JC2002 Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 The funny thing is, the pass that Sammy caught that set up the winning FG was about 1 inch away from being intercepted and returned for the game losing TD or FG. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. We won last week. This week is going to be a TOUGH game. Just about every football game is decided by an inch and guys who are willing to die to win that inch on any given sunday
billykaykay Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 I doubt he can keep up with a very good offensive team. I can see him MAYBE winning a Wildcard game, but no more. I hope I'm wrong. He hasn't been a starter since the league clamped down on DB's though. Maybe that will benefit his game in unforeseen ways. Just having the balls to make a throw goes a long way these days. It's like you are twice as likely to get a PI, but you gotta throw it first, or you'll never get a call. Great observation. Hadn't thought of that, but O throws a nice long ball. Perhaps, we begin to get those 30 yd penalties.
JC2002 Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 Not even close. Orton has gotten to throw to the likes of Brandon Marshall, Dez Bryant, Jason Witten, Miles Austin, etc. He's also sat behind some very solid offensive lines and STILL not really done a lot. Before the Bills, he had 2,265 passing attempts. That's a pretty good sample size to pretty much know what we're getting. This is his 10th season in the NFL as well. His "upside" if you want to even call it that has been played out already. well to be honest in dallas he started one game and we saw what he could do . he had marshall back when marshall was an admitted knucklehead and set records with marshall and then they got rid of marshall . The issue is that Ortons never been the guy and never had the backing of a organization and team where the say you are our guy for the next 3-4 years . Grossman was the high paid first rd pick in Chicago and Orton was behind him The Broncos traded for Orton because the coach didnt get along with Cutler and he felt Orton was good enough until they could draft a QB With the Chiefs it was cassells teams but Crennel actually gave Orton credit for helpong win that job http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=afcwest&id=40350&tag=andrew-luck&wjb= In Dallas he signed on to be the HIGHEST paid backup in the league and dallas felt orton could start for teams when they signed as a reason why they paid him so well This is why I say that a lot of times starting at QB football is all about opportunity,circumstance, and luck . and now hes in another meatgrinder with a 1st rd pick behind and the coaching staff under tremendous pressure and new owners to boot . If Orton helps us get to a playoff and wins a game do we give him the team for 3 years and see where it takes us ? Only time will tell
Big Gun Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 Not even close. Orton has gotten to throw to the likes of Brandon Marshall, Dez Bryant, Jason Witten, Miles Austin, etc. He's also sat behind some very solid offensive lines and STILL not really done a lot. Before the Bills, he had 2,265 passing attempts. That's a pretty good sample size to pretty much know what we're getting. This is his 10th season in the NFL as well. His "upside" if you want to even call it that has been played out already. Orton played 13 games with B Marshall and started 1 game for the Cowboys. So yeah I too would consider Orton to be QBing the best collective talent he has really ever played with here on the Bills.
3putt Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 Every one who we bring in to usurp or guy. (Insert name) can make all the throws. That is such a cliche. Yeah I'm a basketball guy. BUT I know enough to know that that is not something to marvel over. I was talking to the skycap one day about this. Why should that be something to harp on. Should we praise a pilot who can land a plane. A singer who can hit a C note? If you have perfected you're craft to get to the league. You are expected to be able to atleast be adequate. Maybe Orton can hit every pass. But will he? If EJ grew a set and developed a true IDGAF attitude are we sure... 1000% sure he can't do it? I'm really not. And not a critique of others but can we beat someone who doesn't hand us the game before we decide to talk about long term solutions? I believe in the case of a starting QB, having a wider repertoire of throws is important in that eventually opposing defenses will determine which areas of the field it does not need to defend or in the alternative force the QB into his least comfortable option. When that happens the probability of success lessens. Again, I advocate for no option at this time but rather point out that if Orton plays to his average stats, many will not see him as a long term option in the days of a "QB driven league." PS: I believe that QB driven league is pablum served to the masses raised on Madden and FFL. Strong D measured on points allowed and a strong running/possession game can still win championships i.e. Seattle, Ravens.
die hard bills fan Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 I think overall Orton has above average skills for a qb. He seems to have a very good understanding of offensive schemes in general and appears to have picked ours up quickly. he has decent enough arm strength to make all the throws, good accuracy and knows how to command a huddle. These are all qualities of a franchise qb so it seems odd he hasn't stuck with one team for very long. Could it be his attitude or some kind of friction between coach or front office? There is the report out of Dallas on how he and Romo did not get along and we've all seen his party pictures. Just wondering.
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