BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 IMHO, we haven't seen enough of Orton in this offense to make a judgement one way or the other. This week is a huge test for the Orton-led O and even for the D. Beating the Pats* this weekend will be worth lot more than 1 game in the Win column. this is a general comment and not a reply to you specifically many can say IMHO, we haven't seen enough of EJ in this offense to make a judgement one way or the other.
Doc Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 I'd say that whoever the QB is, the OC and OL are major impediments to success.
Jauronimo Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 If Orton goes 4-1 over his next 5 starts I think Whaley locks him up for a long time. I'm thinking 5 years, $80 million. IF Orton is 5-1 as a starter you gotta lock him up midseason. No chance Whaley waits until the end of his contract only to get sodomized in FA or even worse, risk losing him to that big New Orleans pay day.
HOUSE Posted October 9, 2014 Author Posted October 9, 2014 Wait till he throws his firts "stinker game", there will be hundreds of posters here telling you why. I am not a rookie, I expect a stinker game. Brady had one 2 weeks ago.............so what ?
kota Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 A lot of teams thought Orton was the answer and ultimately wasn't. Ask yourself can we win a SB with him.
Bob Malooga Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 I could post dozens of clips of qbs having passes batted down . Do you believe that EJ got benched because he threw pick 6 because plenty of qbs have thrown pick sixes . Romo and Brees always have one two instances a year it seems where someone takes a short pass of theirs to the house . EJ got benched because he wasnt making throws BEFORE the pick 6 and didnt make throws after the pick 6 . Its that simple and not that hard to figure out and the pick 6 by EJ is a tiny blimp on the radar of Ejs accuracy issues . In the clip you analyzed Orton was 30-46 for 358 2 tds and 2 picks after having not started a game in 2 seasons playing against a defense set to defend the pass most of the time because he had no run game support . In some of those instances you can clearly see the miscommunication from having not practiced that loing with the starters . I can clearly see him in one instance instead of forcing the ball into coverage throwing it low where no one can get it but not risking a pick . I see him overthrow Dez but I also see Dez get bumped off his route as well . You say he threw it behind but I see him attempting several back shoulder throws and the timing simply isn't there yet after one or two practices . Orton is not some passing master and he will have his ups and downs i dont see how anyone could watch football this season and not understand that . But EJ was bad and bad for an extended period of time in a football 8-10 quarters of bad football is a extremely long time in football and he was simply bad . I dont get why people just cant admit that and I am seeing far too many instances of people taking an instance of someone else being bad and comparing it to multiple quarters of the bad football EJ was playing and it makes no sense. There are not many instances of non superstars playing qb that survive weeks of bad play , The point is...they both make crappy decisions and throws, and neither is going to take this team anywhere. Kyle Orton's career completion percentage is 58.8%, and EJ Manuel's is 58.6%...they are not "long-term franchise QB's."
Rob's House Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 A lot of teams thought Orton was the answer and ultimately wasn't. I don't believe that's true.
NoSaint Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 A lot of teams thought Orton was the answer and ultimately wasn't. Ask yourself can we win a SB with him. in the "lots of things are possible" if our defense and special teams are immaculate, and he plays a good 4 game stretch - maaaaaaybe. but he certainly wouldnt be in my top 10-15 choices, and i wouldnt chalk him up as a guy that could consistently put you in a spot to compete for it but instead one that if everything fell just right could benefit for a year.
Rob's House Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 The point is...they both make crappy decisions and throws, and neither is going to take this team anywhere. Kyle Orton's career completion percentage is 58.8%, and EJ Manuel's is 58.6%...they are not "long-term franchise QB's." This masks the reality that Orton has improved over the years. For all we know he's still improving.
qblax16 Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 I didn't read through this whole post, but I'm glad it was posted!! Long term answer is 5 years in my opinion. If he plays well the rest of the season, let's make him the starter again next year, and about midway through next season sign him up for another 4 years.
GG Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 If Orton goes 4-1 over his next 5 starts I think Whaley locks him up for a long time. I'm thinking 5 years, $80 million. IF Orton is 5-1 as a starter you gotta lock him up midseason. No chance Whaley waits until the end of his contract only to get sodomized in FA or even worse, risk losing him to that big New Orleans pay day. He's locked up through 2015. So you'll have until March 2016 for that plausible scenario to play out. Brees will be ready to call it quits by then, too
starrymessenger Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 I sifted through a lot of this thread and read a lot of the same type of response in regards to why he could be the solution to the Bills' QB problems: He's "good enough" to win with the talent the Bills have. That right there is why he's not the long term solution. A long term solution isn't "good enough", that's a stop gap. A long term solution should be a strength of the team. If you have to wait for a Luck or Rodgers you may have to wait a long time, possibly forever, especially if you don't know how to evaluate QBs, thus making the whole process even more of a crapshoot than it already is. If he's good enuf to win that's good enuf. People used to say things like that about EJ ie he just needs to be a game manager etc... Bottom line however was that, game manager or not, he wasn't good enuf to win However, even if KO lights it up, the Bills obviously need to avoid the errors of the past. They need to draft a QB. Right now they don't even have a reliable backup on the roster if Orton goes down.
Sisyphean Bills Posted October 10, 2014 Posted October 10, 2014 I don't believe that's true. By "lots of people", he probably meant Josh McDaniels standing in a fun house of mirrors.
Doc Posted October 10, 2014 Posted October 10, 2014 By "lots of people", he probably meant Josh McDaniels standing in a fun house of mirrors. Huh? JM wanted to, and did, replace Orton with Tebow.
GG Posted October 10, 2014 Posted October 10, 2014 By "lots of people", he probably meant Josh McDaniels standing in a fun house of mirrors. At some point, he thought he looked like Charlie Weis before surgery.
DirtDart Posted October 13, 2014 Posted October 13, 2014 I don't believe that's true. It is very true, past trends point to the above.
boyst Posted October 13, 2014 Posted October 13, 2014 I like having Orton on this team. His upside is as good as Fitz's but he has experience. Winning in his background and something fitz doesn't have. Fitz would never call the punt team off or call for a 2PAT. This is invaluable to a learning team. This is someone we need to help grow this roster - even beyond he abilities in a better QB. I'm not going to be harsh on humans the best tbing we have righ now.
Rob's House Posted October 13, 2014 Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) It is very true, past trends point to the above. What teams thought Orton was the answer? I like having Orton on this team. His upside is as good as Fitz's but he has experience. Winning in his background and something fitz doesn't have. Fitz would never call the punt team off or call for a 2PAT. This is invaluable to a learning team. This is someone we need to help grow this roster - even beyond he abilities in a better QB. I'm not going to be harsh on humans the best tbing we have righ now. I agree. I wasn't terribly satisfied with his overall performance today, but he did some things that impressed me. I'm almost as bummed about not getting to see what he could have done in a 2 minute drill down 8 after that TD drive as I am about the loss. I'm curious if he took the reigns and started calling the plays at that point. Edited October 13, 2014 by Rob's House
boyst Posted October 13, 2014 Posted October 13, 2014 What teams thought Orton was the answer? I agree. I wasn't terribly satisfied with his overall performance today, but he did some things that impressed me. I'm almost as bummed about not getting to see what he could have done in a 2 minute drill down 8 after that TD drive as I am about the loss. I'm curious if he took the reigns and started calling the plays at that point. I want to know as much about the INT's as possible. I was doing the Blue Ridge Parkway and mountain climbing/trail hiking with GF today - it is her bday and her sister is in town,too. I planned the entire drive to each mtn section to coordinate with the game, including a small 20 min hike at about when halftime would be. I caught the radio of most of the game.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 13, 2014 Posted October 13, 2014 A lot of teams thought Orton was the answer and ultimately wasn't. Ask yourself can we win a SB with him. Orton is very clearly a journeyman back up. Any expectations of him performing beyond that role dismiss the obvious historical pattern and are sadly ill fated. As for the introspective inquiry... No- EASY!... But outside of 1-3 guys that don't need a great supporting cast to contend, I think I'd still have the same initial thought....
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