My take on All-22: Last 2 weeks

[Mango]

Thought I would go back and rewatch the All-22 of our last loss and win, and do a little comparison.

 

Houston: EJ got clobbered. From watching all the pass plays, he seemed to make the right reads on almost all the plays, 2 or 3 were poor/there was a better option. A couple of head scratchers for sure, I got about 4 or 5, oddly almost all involved Robert Woods. They weren't in the same book let alone the same page. Not sure who is at fault here. Sammy had a bad game. Sorry guys, but he did. Mike Williams with two big drops as well. To have that, with the pressure, and EJ's gross inaccuracy at times is a recipe for disaster. The receivers let the QB down as much as the QB let them down. Not sure who but I read a few posts where people where mentioning WR's running around open. Didn't see that at all. Houston forced our QB, WR's, and OL to win their battles, and they all seemed to fail to a certain extent. The OL was disgraceful. JJ Watt had his way with Buffalo. All in all a bad showing for the entire offense, not just the QB (yes a bad QB showing too!). Not a pass for EJ, just an observation.

 

Detroit: Orton missed some better reads, especially in the 2nd and 3rd quarter where there were plays to me made. He delivered the ball with more consistency though, and had more help from his WR's than the week prior. Read into that what you will, but it happened. Hogan saw a lot more time Sunday. Could be after his performance in the Houston game, mentioned above. After watching the all-22 here, I really wasn't all that impressed. He made some plays but we still need more from our QB position. Detroit played with 2 safeties over top almost the entire game, and did a good job of taking anything away that wasn't underneath. I think this ended up costing them. Had they loaded up the front a bit more, Orton would have had to force some pretty low percentage throws. Not saying he can't complete them, just that they're low percentage.

 

One thing I noticed from both games, is our general lack of open receivers. Sammy does a much better job than anybody else and it's obvious. especially coming out of his breaks. Our intermediate passing game doesn't exist because we barely run any routes there. 3 deep receivers and a check down. Regardless of either QB we are seeing go routes, and check downs. We aren't helping Orton or EJ here. If I am any D I still load the box with our OL, and make the WR beat the CB, and have the QB try and set to throw those pretty low percentage plays. The odds are they don't regularly enough for you to lose the game. Pretty low percentage stuff. I think this is basically what Houston did. We don't really have a QB or OL worth respecting. I am not sure where the blame falls here. Are we over-hyping our talent and depth at the position? Is it the OL for not giving the QB enough time for the receivers to get through their routes? Is it play calling? If we want to take pressure off the OL, why not more slants, we barely see any. Why barely any intermediate stuff?

 

I am no Hackett supporter, and to me it looks like he gets the blame for not doing a good enough job at hiding our weaknesses and using our strengths. There are some serious issues at personnel all over the place, and the roster doesn't get a pass, but I think we aren't doing enough to mask it or use it most efficiently.

[K-9]

Thanks for the analysis. I haven't seen it yet.

 

As for Orton, as bad as his 1st and 2nd quarters were, his 4th quarter was about as good as it gets. Shaking off the expected rust and steadily getting better as the game progressed is a GREAT sign moving forward. Looking forward to the All-22.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Captain Hindsight]

I didn't see much wrong with EJ's reads ever just not putting the ball where it needed to be. I still think they pulled him early

 

Orton made the same reads and delivered good passes more often than not. But from what i saw (I only had time to break down the 1st quarter) he left plays out there that could have been big plays. Regardless of who is under center, more production is needed there

[john]

agree with the comments here. My 2 cents is that Buffalo made the right call in benching EJ IF they want the best possible chance to have a winning season and make the playoffs this year. EJ is obviously not ready and the game is just too fast for him at this point. Yes, Orton left a lot out on the field (but then again, so did Stafford and say what you want about CJ not being healthy..Tate more than made up for that I think...) but he was overall more accurate and in my honest opinion had a much better command of the offense.

He got better as the game wore on and the rust wore off a bit. It was his first live action as starting QB for this team. Of course there was going to be some rust. He gives the Bills by far the best chance at a good season.

Edited October 7, 2014 by john

[Doc]

With an inexperienced/project QB like EJ, passing more than twice as much as running against the Texans, when they were averaging 4.2 YPC and the game was never out of reach, was unconscionable. Fortunately this week the receivers actually caught the ball and the defense shut down Detroit, so that those 17 points scored were enough to win it.

[Solomon Grundy]

Thought I would go back and rewatch the All-22 of our last loss and win, and do a little comparison.

 

Houston: EJ got clobbered. From watching all the pass plays, he seemed to make the right reads on almost all the plays, 2 or 3 were poor/there was a better option. A couple of head scratchers for sure, I got about 4 or 5, oddly almost all involved Robert Woods. They weren't in the same book let alone the same page. Not sure who is at fault here. Sammy had a bad game. Sorry guys, but he did. Mike Williams with two big drops as well. To have that, with the pressure, and EJ's gross inaccuracy at times is a recipe for disaster. The receivers let the QB down as much as the QB let them down. Not sure who but I read a few posts where people where mentioning WR's running around open. Didn't see that at all. Houston forced our QB, WR's, and OL to win their battles, and they all seemed to fail to a certain extent. The OL was disgraceful. JJ Watt had his way with Buffalo. All in all a bad showing for the entire offense, not just the QB (yes a bad QB showing too!). Not a pass for EJ, just an observation.

 

Detroit: Orton missed some better reads, especially in the 2nd and 3rd quarter where there were plays to me made. He delivered the ball with more consistency though, and had more help from his WR's than the week prior. Read into that what you will, but it happened. Hogan saw a lot more time Sunday. Could be after his performance in the Houston game, mentioned above. After watching the all-22 here, I really wasn't all that impressed. He made some plays but we still need more from our QB position. Detroit played with 2 safeties over top almost the entire game, and did a good job of taking anything away that wasn't underneath. I think this ended up costing them. Had they loaded up the front a bit more, Orton would have had to force some pretty low percentage throws. Not saying he can't complete them, just that they're low percentage.

 

One thing I noticed from both games, is our general lack of open receivers. Sammy does a much better job than anybody else and it's obvious. especially coming out of his breaks. Our intermediate passing game doesn't exist because we barely run any routes there. 3 deep receivers and a check down. Regardless of either QB we are seeing go routes, and check downs. We aren't helping Orton or EJ here. If I am any D I still load the box with our OL, and make the WR beat the CB, and have the QB try and set to throw those pretty low percentage plays. The odds are they don't regularly enough for you to lose the game. Pretty low percentage stuff. I think this is basically what Houston did. We don't really have a QB or OL worth respecting. I am not sure where the blame falls here. Are we over-hyping our talent and depth at the position? Is it the OL for not giving the QB enough time for the receivers to get through their routes? Is it play calling? If we want to take pressure off the OL, why not more slants, we barely see any. Why barely any intermediate stuff?

 

I am no Hackett supporter, and to me it looks like he gets the blame for not doing a good enough job at hiding our weaknesses and using our strengths. There are some serious issues at personnel all over the place, and the roster doesn't get a pass, but I think we aren't doing enough to mask it or use it most efficiently.

 

Thanks Mango! Maybe Marrone and Co. wanted EJ to sit and watch a veteran play. That was their plan all along

[atlbillsfan1975]

With an inexperienced/project QB like EJ, passing more than twice as much as running against the Texans, when they were averaging 4.2 YPC and the game was never out of reach, was unconscionable. Fortunately this week the receivers actually caught the ball and the defense shut down Detroit, so that those 17 points scored were enough to win it.

Yep funny how a win can influence how things are viewed.

Not to mention if Sammie doesn't make that remarkable play in the fourth it is an interception and most likely returned for a T.D. Suddenly we are talking about how Orton scored more points for Detroit than Buffalo.

I am by no means arguing with the EJ benching. I am however hoping we did indeed see 'rust' on Orton. I however am more inclined to think he is who he is. I have seen the Bills try to make backups their starter since Jimbo retired. I want to believe that Orton can get the Bills to the playoffs, but after one shaky performance i am not a believer just yet.

The receivers did play a heck of a game and where much more focused with Orton then they were with EJ in Houston.

 

Lets hope the Bills entire team plays like it did in Detroit and we get KW and Bradham back this week. Then maybe 21-24 points will win it. The place will be rocking on Sunday and i hope the Pats pee the bed when facing a hostile crowd and physical team.

[Maddog69]

I feel like this weeks game (and many other recent games) are proof of the old saying "the QB gets too much credit for wins and too much blame for losses". Orton was not the reason we won. He did just enough to squeak out a victory that happened because the defense was amazing and Detroit's kicker was horrible. Orton's day was proof that, with a great defense and some luck, you don't need Peyton Manning at QB to win in the watered down NFL. A veteran like Orton should be able and should be expected to take this team to the playoffs.

 

[Doc]

Yep funny how a win can influence how things are viewed.

Not to mention if Sammie doesn't make that remarkable play in the fourth it is an interception and most likely returned for a T.D. Suddenly we are talking about how Orton scored more points for Detroit than Buffalo.

I am by no means arguing with the EJ benching. I am however hoping we did indeed see 'rust' on Orton. I however am more inclined to think he is who he is. I have seen the Bills try to make backups their starter since Jimbo retired. I want to believe that Orton can get the Bills to the playoffs, but after one shaky performance i am not a believer just yet.

The receivers did play a heck of a game and where much more focused with Orton then they were with EJ in Houston.

 

Lets hope the Bills entire team plays like it did in Detroit and we get KW and Bradham back this week. Then maybe 21-24 points will win it. The place will be rocking on Sunday and i hope the Pats pee the bed when facing a hostile crowd and physical team.

I'll give Orton the3 BotD since he just joined the team 5-1/2 weeks ago, and didn't even have a pre-season game with the team. As for benching EJ, there's nothing that be can done about it except to cheer for Orton and hope EJ learns from him.

[K-9]

I feel like this weeks game (and many other recent games) are proof of the old saying "the QB gets too much credit for wins and too much blame for losses". Orton was not the reason we won. He did just enough to squeak out a victory that happened because the defense was amazing and Detroit's kicker was horrible. Orton's day was proof that, with a great defense and some luck, you don't need Peyton Manning at QB to win in the watered down NFL. A veteran like Orton should be able and should be expected to take this team to the playoffs.

 

Good post.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[JC2002]

Oh please EJ did not get benched because he missed a few reads he got benched because his footwork was horrible ,he wasn't even calling out the right protections pre snaps and rarely was making the right decision on the hot routes because it .

 

Ej in the huddle had no influence he was a passenger while Orton was driving the huddle .All qb's miss throws even Manning but if you cant make the basic omnes how can you help him grow as a NFL receiver ?

 

EJ has hurt the offenses development bigtime and at this point Orton has to basically shake off the rust from his own game but break the offense especially the wideouts of some of the bad habits picked up by playing with EJ. On that last throw which was a great catch by Sammie but wasn't a errant pass. Orton threw it precisely where he wanted to in that situation the wideout has to read the defense himself and then settle into the soft spot of the defense .

 

"It carried over a lot," Watkins said. "He had his mistakes, but he had his veteran time where he lifted us up and moved the ball. (He) had a couple reads where he seen the coverage and he shot it in there. It was great because now we're on the same page and we, as a group, just have to keep going up.

 

This sort of stuff wasnt being done last year ,in the offseason ,in training camp ,in preseason ,and the first 4 weeks of the season . Physically EJ can do it he can make those throws Orton was making when there is ZERO pressure to do so but mentally it aint even close and its not rookie vs veteran its about simply knowing how to play QB period . The ability to see the field and anticipate are paramount in the NFL at the QB position and EJ just cant right now and thats why there is no comparison .

 

Orton had some rust but he saw what he saw and his decisions was based off that while Ej a bunch of times didn't see it and when he did couldn't decipher it quick enough to make a decision as fast as you have to at QB in the NFL.

[thewildrabbit]

Kyle Orton showed what it looks like to have a decent veteran QB behind center. Someone who can make a mistake like the pick six, who can be pressured all game and still find a way to comeback from all that adversity.

 

Plus, the fact that he was able to call audibles, change the play and make things work based on what he was seeing on the field....despite Hackett!! This is huge, and something that EJ simply can't do just yet because he is being taught by a JV OC. Orton might just end up teaching Hackett how to properly do his job.

[quinnearlysghost88]

it was his first game in 10 months. what exactly were you expecting?

[Coach Tuesday]

I too am concerned about the college offense that Hacket seems to be running. Streaks and a a check-down comports with what I'm seeing when I watch the (non all-22) games. You can bet that NE is going to press up this weekend and force Orton to make those harder throws.

[Mango]

I too am concerned about the college offense that Hacket seems to be running. Streaks and a a check-down comports with what I'm seeing when I watch the (non all-22) games. You can bet that NE is going to press up this weekend and force Orton to make those harder throws.

 

That's the way to beat the Bills. The line won't hold up for the extra time it takes the receivers to get open. I also don't have faith that Hackett will adjust to routes that can beat press coverage.