AKC Posted February 1, 2005 Author Share Posted February 1, 2005 If you will provide military service statistics as I have asked you to do repeatedly, sure225417[/snapback] Based upon the links you cited: North Dakota, Population 633,000, 9 servicemen lost in Iraq or one for every 70,000 citizens. New York, Population 19,500,000, 67 servicemen lost in Iraq or one for every 300,000 citizens. Based upon the facts as you supplied them North Dakotans are losing their lives at a rate 4.5 times faster than New Yorkers in Iraq. We can do it with virtually every state in the heartland if you like, the figures don't vary much and there are far more dramatic examples, it's simply that you decided to bash the courage of Dakotans in your posts so I'll offer the facts about them here. Back to your yes or no question- Do you dare to publicly recognize the fact that higher per capital losses are suffered in rural America than in the liberal hotbed of New York City? Yes or No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted February 1, 2005 Author Share Posted February 1, 2005 We are all Americans. The soil of New York is American soil, belonging to South Dakotans just as much as New Yorkers. Those bastards didn't attack New York, they attacked America. I would think that would mean as much to Nevadans as to Yankee fans. 225417[/snapback] The facts don't bear you out, in fact they contradict you completely. Apparently in the heartland of America where the Veteran's Day Parade is an event celebrated by everyone and pride in our military is widespread we have a lot more Americans willing to fight overseas to thwart further attacks on New York City. On the other hand we have people like you paying lip service to "I support the military"- it's BS. You can't support the military and at the same time bad mouth service to your country in a time of war. Ask any 'Nam vet how well that BS works- a full class of heroes reviled by a segment of the population because they couldn't control their emotions or fear enough to support the same vets, leading DIRECTLY to the loss of tens of thousands of lives needlessy if the accounts of the Vietnamese are to be considered accurate. Yeah, anti-war protests are a real boon to those fighting. Try this: History Reality You're wrong on both if you believe protesting the war is a plus for any one of those kids and adults, each one with more courage than that of all the protesters combined. It's the great liberal lie- "It's my right and duty to protest the war". You liberals always talk about this lie or that lie- I'd ask you as a gentleman to stop fomenting this liberal lie. The truth is we know what protest did to the soldiers from 'Nam and we can see the same symptoms of that today in the liberal bastions these bravest of Americans are protecting. Stop the liberal lie. Protesting the war HURTS our fighting forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted February 1, 2005 Author Share Posted February 1, 2005 No response to my last question; the most CRUCIAL one that gets to the heart of the matter!! When would you object? How far would it have to go? 225268[/snapback] I object when it's done behind our back and we wake up one day reading about our dead somewhere in the world we had no idea we "had a fight with" and who haven't attacked us plus the balance of the governments been locked out of any participation. Youmight go back and study the Democrats way of waging war in this manner, it's called Vietnam. You can also note that it took a Republican to have the quijones get us out. The Iraq War was the opposite: We have a battle with Middle East radicals who attacked us. Failure to recognize this in previous White Houses allowed the attacks to take place in the first place. We had a healthy public debate on taking action, followed by congressional voting that overwhelmingly approved of the decision to go forward. If you've got a problem with this war I suggest you contact your Democratic representatives who almost certainly voted to proceed against Iraq. In H.J. 114 and S.J. 45 Congress didn't merely agree with action against , they URGED the White House to take action. Signed by 77% of Senators and the House by over 70%. What is it about Democracy that you libs hate so much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 What is it about Democracy that you libs hate so much?225469[/snapback] when the vote doesn't go their way 60,608,582 - 57,288,974 286 - 252 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted February 1, 2005 Author Share Posted February 1, 2005 when the vote doesn't go their way60,608,582 - 57,288,974 286 - 252 225472[/snapback] Yeah, Democracy was great before their message was fully analyzed by the public and they began to slip into insignificance ;-) For God's sake stop whining and CHANGE YOUR MESSAGE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Have all the letters rubbed off their keyboards? 225245[/snapback] As thought they can read them. They're CATS. They're touch-typists... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 The facts don't bear you out, in fact they contradict you completely. Apparently in the heartland of America where the Veteran's Day Parade is an event celebrated by everyone and pride in our military is widespread we have a lot more Americans willing to fight overseas for the attack on New York City. On the other hand we have people like you paying lip service to "I support the military"- it's BS. You can't support the military and at the same time bad mouth service to your country in a time of war. Ask any 'Nam vet how well that BS works- a full class of heroes reviled by a segment of the population because they couldn't control their emotions or fear enough to support the same vets, leading DIRECTLY to the loss of tens of thousands of lives needlessy if the accounts of the Vietmnamese are to be considered accurate. Yeah, anti-war protests are a real boon to those fighting. Try this: History Reality You're wrong on both if you believe protesting the war is a plus for any one of those kids and adults, each one with more courage than that of all the protesters combined. It's the great liberal lie- "It's my right and duty to protest the war". You liberals always talk about this lie or that lie- I'd ask you as a gentleman to stop fomenting this liberal lie. The truth is we know what protest did to the soldiers from 'Nam and we can see the same symptoms of that today in the liberal bastions these bravest of Americans are protecting. Stop the liberal lie. Protesting the war HURTS our fighting forces. 225457[/snapback] Please point out where I have bad mouthed military service at anytime in any post. Otherwise, withdraw the accusation. Please point out where I have protested the war as opposed to being critical of its execution. Otherwise, withdraw the accusation. Why do you assign me positions I have never taken? Its like you have this cartoon in your head as to what a liberal is and it doesn't matter what my positions are, you have already imagined them to fit the cartoon Rush Limbaugh or god knows what other idiot has drawn in your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Based upon the links you cited: North Dakota, Population 633,000, 9 servicemen lost in Iraq or one for every 70,000 citizens. New York, Population 19,500,000, 67 servicemen lost in Iraq or one for every 300,000 citizens. Based upon the facts as you supplied them North Dakotans are losing their lives at a rate 4.5 times faster than New Yorkers in Iraq. We can do it with virtually every state in the heartland if you like, the figures don't vary much and there are far more dramatic examples, it's simply that you decided to bash the courage of Dakotans in your posts so I'll offer the facts about them here. Back to your yes or no question- Do you dare to publicly recognize the fact that higher per capital losses are suffered in rural America than in the liberal hotbed of New York City? Yes or No? 225442[/snapback] Lets try again Mr. Hatemonger: Check you numbers, you are excluding the deaths of thousands of New York and New Jersey residents in the war against terrorism. Don't they count? By the way, the population of New York State is 19.1 million and the population of the US is 290.8 which means NY has 6.5% of the population. As stated earlier, they have suffered roughly 60% of the casualties on the war on terror. Is that good enough for you to withdraw the charge that New York is just a bunch of elitist liberal cowards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Yeah, Democracy was great before their message was fully analyzed by the public and they began to slip into insignificance ;-) For God's sake stop whining and CHANGE YOUR MESSAGE! 225473[/snapback] The last time that was tried that they were called flip-floppers, if you recall correctly. The Democrats will find it hard to win as long as the American people are easily motivated by fear, soundbites and vitriol, and repetition of an idea until it becomes truth. The Republicans are more refined and experienced at each of these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Check you numbers, you are excluding the deaths of thousands of New York and New Jersey residents in the war against terrorism. Don't they count? 225516[/snapback] different types of casualties. those who died in WTC were murdered civillians, who if they had known what was coming would have stayed home. military dead willingly putting their lives on the line on a related note, i found out a lovely young lady serving in the navy that i had started becoming friendly with was reassigned to bahrain i liked her too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Lets try again Mr. Hatemonger: Check you numbers, you are excluding the deaths of thousands of New York and New Jersey residents in the war against terrorism. Don't they count? By the way, the population of New York State is 19.1 million and the population of the US is 290.8 which means NY has 6.5% of the population. As stated earlier, they have suffered roughly 60% of the casualties on the war on terror. Is that good enough for you to withdraw the charge that New York is just a bunch of elitist liberal cowards? 225516[/snapback] So now Iraq IS part of the war on terrorism? You're going to be ostricized from the rest of the lemmings if you keep that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted February 1, 2005 Author Share Posted February 1, 2005 Please point out where I have bad mouthed military service at anytime in any post. Otherwise, withdraw the accusation. Please point out where I have protested the war as opposed to being critical of its execution. Otherwise, withdraw the accusation. Why do you assign me positions I have never taken? Its like you have this cartoon in your head as to what a liberal is and it doesn't matter what my positions are, you have already imagined them to fit the cartoon Rush Limbaugh or god knows what other idiot has drawn in your head. 225509[/snapback] You continue to bash the most courageous of Americans by refusing to acknowledge that a kid in a rural state is far more likely to sign up, serve and be killed in Iraq than a kid from New York City. Stand up and admit what is undeniable. Yes or no- can you admit it or not? "I don't protest the war just it's execution". Possibly you missed the last election when the excrutiatingly indecisive John Kerry said "I voted for it before I voted against it." Like his idiotic misstep, you want to have it both ways but it's an outright lie. In wartime you either support or you don't. We have history to show us how it works. In WWII we got nearly across the board national support and it assisted the cause and the homecoming reception for the soldiers in the fight. In 'Nam we got protesters who were directly responsible for American deaths and a horrible legacy of poor treament for the returning soldiers. You'd condemn the current fighting men and women in Iraq to the fate of the 'Nam vet apparently because of your hatred for the President. I won't let you continue the lie here in public without pointing it out. You have become a hypocrite of the highest order talking about lying Bush this and lying Cheney that, yet you promulgate the big liberal lie of contemporary times when you say you can "protest the execution of the war" and support the troops at the same time. It's a flat out lie, you can say it all you want, but history is my proof that you are harming the future of the public acceptance of our returning Vets with your lack of self-control. It's become obvious that you intend refuse to acknowledge those places in this country who lose the highest percentage of uniformed servicepersons. You try to dilute the argument with citizens instead of being honest and hold true to the original discussion about service to the country in our Armed Forces. You don't seek here to offer any exploration, your words instead are left as hollow and false propoganda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted February 1, 2005 Author Share Posted February 1, 2005 The last time that was tried that they were called flip-floppers, if you recall correctly. The Democrats will find it hard to win as long as the American people are easily motivated by fear, soundbites and vitriol, and repetition of an idea until it becomes truth. The Republicans are more refined and experienced at each of these. 225521[/snapback] So let me see if I've got this one figured out- the majority of Americans are influenced to vote for Republicans because they're motivated by fear, soundbites and vitriol- making them: A) cowering B) fools C) easily incited by hate Are you sure you haven't mixed up your party profiles here ? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 Please point out where I have protested the war as opposed to being critical of its execution. 225509[/snapback] Is that based on your wealth of experience executing war? Or the ideas of really smart war planners like John Kerry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicot Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 I object when it's done behind our back and we wake up one day reading about our dead somewhere in the world we had no idea we "had a fight with" and who haven't attacked us plus the balance of the governments been locked out of any participation. Youmight go back and study the Democrats way of waging war in this manner, it's called Vietnam. You can also note that it took a Republican to have the quijones get us out. The Iraq War was the opposite: We have a battle with Middle East radicals who attacked us. Failure to recognize this in previous White Houses allowed the attacks to take place in the first place. We had a healthy public debate on taking action, followed by congressional voting that overwhelmingly approved of the decision to go forward. If you've got a problem with this war I suggest you contact your Democratic representatives who almost certainly voted to proceed against Iraq. In H.J. 114 and S.J. 45 Congress didn't merely agree with action against , they URGED the White House to take action. Signed by 77% of Senators and the House by over 70%. What is it about Democracy that you libs hate so much? 225469[/snapback] Hang on a minute. If I understand you rightly, you're actually saying you objected to the Vietnam war? And yet, in a previous post, you said "What we learned from the Vietnam experience was that tens of thousands of American kids were killed simply because of the Anti-War movement. As General Giap, the commanding officer of the North Vietnamese forces explained in his memoirs, his side was preparing their surrender terms at the time the Anti-War movement became highly publicized by the Main Stream Media and Giap and co. strategically decided to hold out and see if these would change American resolve to finish a job which was for all intents and purposes completed. The rest is history, and the tens of thousands of lives lost to those in the U.S. " So would you have objected or wouldn't you? And if you did object wouldn't you then be responsible for the "tens of thousands of American kids killed because of the Anti-War movement"? You can't have it both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted February 2, 2005 Author Share Posted February 2, 2005 Hang on a minute. If I understand you rightly, you're actually saying you objected to the Vietnam war? 225594[/snapback] You can try to say something I never said, but you won't find it in my posts. I was 4 when Kennedy hooked us up in 'Nam. In my teens it was my expectation and desire to go serve in 'Nam and carry on the family tradition, one that dates back to every conflict in this country since we tossed the Brits out. Unfortunately we were on the wrong side in that one, but since we were left behind by the Brits we moved to WNY from NYC which had "recently" become hostile to Tories. We more than made up for that poor judgement over time and I grew up with heavy doses of Victory at Sea with the old man showing me his boat in Kwajeilan, Iwo, invasion of the Philipines, etc. 'Nam didn't hold on long enough for me to get in but I enlisted after college. The question posed is a contemporary one, and knowing what I know now about all the actions we've taken historically, it seems the current conflict is among the top three in citizen and congressional participation and approval. That seems for the most part like a good thing to me and I support it over the covert work the Dems did getting us into Vietnam with no chance to discuss it privately by the Executive Branch. So I did not oppose 'Nam at the time, but it seems fair to speculate 'Nam wouldn't have included the U.S. if the same measures instituted by the Bush Administration for Iraq had been applied to that situation. Libs won't ever admit that the Bush lead up was thousands of times more fair, not to mention desirable, than Kennedys but the fact is it's virtually impossible to structure a cogent argument to the contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losman-McGahee-Evans Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 Amen to that. As a Republican it's been pretty refreshing to not hear a single Democrat who isn't overjoyed by what's going on there. I'm glad that both parties are overjoyed by the fact that Democracy has begun in Iraq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_BiB_ Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 Damn, do any of you realize how stupid you are? Yes, you are stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 Is that based on your wealth of experience executing war? Or the ideas of really smart war planners like John Kerry? 225555[/snapback] Are we only allowed to have or express an opinion as to what our government does on a given issue if we are an expert on that particular issue? If that is the criteria, I would expect to see far fewer posters here share with us their oh-so brilliant-take on issues of constitutional law from abortion to gun rights. Next time they do, I eagerly anticipate a quick response from you telling them to shut up and listen to the lawyers. Unfortunately, in a constitutional democracy, civilians control the military, not the other way around so yeah, I get to have an opinion on wars too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 So now Iraq IS part of the war on terrorism? You're going to be ostricized from the rest of the lemmings if you keep that up. 225526[/snapback] As you know, I supported this war. They haven't given me the cold shoulder... yet. The fact that I acutally get along with you though is bound to catch up with me sooner or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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