If you're not proud of our Country RIGHT NOW

[AKC]

Please offer a single quote from any of my posts in this entire thread which insult those in uniform.

 

Please offer a link to evidence that there are scads and scads of elitist cowards convincing other people in New York or California or whatever other states you insist on labeling as cowards, into not serving in the military. 

 

Please offer an argument that service statistics can be explained only by levels of courage.

 

Please explain why the 67 New Yorkers who have died in this war are not enough for the state of New York to avoid your charge of cowardice.  Please let me know how many would be enough.

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"I think that evidence, that fact, is a far more powerful statement regarding the courage of New Yorkers than uncited service statistics. It is certainly a direct refutation of the "instead allowing" Dakotans to die for them reference in the post. Instead of what? Instead of dying themselves."

 

Your continuing refusal to acknowledge that 5 times as many North Dakotans per capita have died in our uniform in Iraq compared to New Yorkers is an insult to EVERYONE with the courage to serve. Because of your political bias you refuse to recognize that the atmosphere in the "Red States" is more conducive to inspiring the courage it takes to enter that recruitment office or to commit to a tour overseas. And the simple reason in my opinion that you continue to diminish these brave kids is that it's people like you who have created that environment in places like New York City: the exact places at risk that these country kids are dying for.

 

You ignore the obvious, you refute the irrefutable, you hide from the truth. Your embarrassment over your own coddling of the cowardly and rallying for a nation of those who would cower and run after being attacked appears to know no bounds, yet you manifest that embarrassment behind words like "patriotism" and "freedom of speech". Shame on you. And to think that the 9/11 attacks took place in your back yard!

 

All good Americans should make sure their next vacations are in the areas in our country producing the highest percentages of brave soldiers. New York City and San Francisco deserve not a penny of tourist capital from decent, honorable Americans who love their country and remain proud of its will to defend itself and those places that create an environment friendly to the idea of allowing any prospective soldier to make their own decision on whether to join the service in defense of their country.

[AKC]

You'd make a good preacher. 

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You say that as if it's a bad thing, yet curiously enough you have clearly fallen lock step behind the religion of liberalism that's led by the likes of Teddy Kennedy and Michael Moore, one who allowed a young girl to drown in his car to save his political hide and the other who has done less for individual Americans than virtually any preacher you'd find in the country. I'm not religious myself but I sure can clearly see the difference between people who devote their lives to improving the lives of others versus those devoted to improving their own.

 

Your position does bring up the question of why, with your difficulties accepting a capitalistic representative democracy, don't you pack and move your family to the socialistic nirvana that your religion pushes on us?

 

Oh, that's right- they've all proven to be utter failures!

 

Socialism is simply a guarantee that all people will be poor

[Mickey]

GWB only lied if you also believe that Clinton, Kerry, Kennedy, Albright, etc. ALL lied before him in the 1990s.

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Actually there is an alternative: The WMD situation in 1990 might not have been exactly the same as the WMD situation in 2003. Further, none of those people were present during the briefing in late 2002 where Bush was presented all the evidence they had on WMD's and himself judged it to be inadequate. That is the same meeting where Tenet reacted to the President's incredulity by pronouncing that it was "a slam dunk". Bush accepted this declaration despite the proof being, in his own judgment, insufficient. Whether Clinton, Kerry, Kennedy or Albright would have accepted Tenet's claim or believed their own eyes is something we will never know so I won't speculate.

 

To this day I don't understand why Bush accepted Tenet's word when his own mind told him the evidence was not very solid. "The president, unimpressed by the presentation of satellite photographs and intercepts, pressed Tenet and McLaughlin, saying their information would not "convince Joe Public" and asking Tenet, "This is the best we've got?" Woodward reports." (see, Plan of Attack, Inside Politics). Keep in mind that the administration hasn't called into question Woodward's report in his book regarding this meeting which took place on December 21, 2002. In fact, the RNC made excerpts available from the book on its web site througout the election.

 

He was smart enough to see that the evidence wasn't very solid but not strong enough to believe in his own judgment rather than that of someone else. That is the take if you give him the benefit of the doubt. For those who don't, they might instead conclude that he was going to invade Iraq regardless of the WMD's. I think a very persuasive argument could be made that such a decision was justified and I wish the administration would just make that argument rather than to blame the CIA and/or Tenet. There were very substantial reasons for invading Iraq regardless of whether there was a single WMD anywhere in that tortured land.

[Mickey]

"I think that evidence, that fact, is a far more powerful statement regarding the courage of New Yorkers than uncited service statistics. It is certainly a direct refutation of the "instead allowing" Dakotans to die for them reference in the post. Instead of what? Instead of dying themselves."

 

Your continuing refusal to acknowledge that 5 times as many North Dakotans per capita have died in our uniform in Iraq compared to New Yorkers is an insult to EVERYONE with the courage to serve. Because of your political bias you refuse to recognize that the atmosphere in the "Red States" is more conducive to inspiring the courage it takes to enter that recruitment office or to commit to a tour overseas. And the simple reason in my opinion that you continue to diminish these brave kids is that it's people like you who have created that environment in places like New York City: the exact places at risk that these country kids are dying for.

 

You ignore the obvious, you refute the irrefutable, you hide from the truth. Your embarrassment over your own coddling of the cowardly and rallying for a nation of those who would cower and run after being attacked appears to know no bounds, yet you manifest that embarrassment behind words like "patriotism" and "freedom of speech". Shame on you.  And to think that the 9/11 attacks took place in your back yard!

 

All good Americans should make sure their next vacations are in the areas in our country producing the highest percentages of brave soldiers. New York City and San Francisco deserve not a penny of tourist capital from decent, honorable Americans who love their country and remain proud of its will to defend itself and those places that create an environment friendly to the idea of allowing any prospective soldier to make their own decision on whether to join the service in defense of their country.

224984[/snapback]

I see no insult in the language you quoted, let me present some of the quotes from my posts that you ignore right along side quotes from your posts and will see who is bent on dividing people and hurling insults:

 

AKC:

 

"...liberal elitists in the major population centers..."

 

Mickey:

 

"I'll leave it to you to argue the numerical values of per capita sacrifices. Me, I just see them as Americans, all of them."

 

 

AKC:

 

" ...yet elite New York City sends the nationwide lowest percentage of Americans to the fight, instead allowing the kids from Bonesteel and other small towns to die protecting their elite centers."

 

 

Mickey:

 

"These are people, not statistics. To all of them and to all our soldiers, wherever they come from and whatever their politics are, thank you and God keep you safe."

 

AKC:

 

"...the disgusting cowardice of the loud-mouthed elite."

 

 

 

Mickey:

 

"I think the fact that 67 New Yorkers have died all on its own refutes the idea that New Yorkers let others die for them. At the same time, I value just as highly the 8 soldiers from South Dakota who have died. Then again, I am not the one counting numbers or insulting an entire state.

 

AKC:

 

"...communities that breed contempt for our military..."; "...liberal elitist establishments..."; "... the elitists in those major cities produce environments that discourage the same level of patriotism..."

 

Finally, after I don't know how many rounds of posts, you finally exempted those who have served from NY from you general slanders of the entired state, whereas complimenting all who served, regardless of zip code was something I did in my very first post in the thread. A little late but you finally did say:

 

"God Bless every one of the war casualites from every state, none more so than those forced to overcome the cowardly influences of liberal metropolises."

 

What you still haven't done is answer any of my questions so I will ask them again:

 

 

Please offer a single quote from any of my posts in this entire thread which insult those in uniform. [still waiting]

 

Please offer a link to evidence that there are scads and scads of elitist cowards convincing other people in New York or California or whatever other states you insist on labeling as cowards, into not serving in the military. [where is the irrefutable proof you claim?]

 

Please offer an argument that service statistics can be explained only by levels of courage. [all you have offered so far is your opinion which you apparently think is "irrefutable", if it is so irrefutable, why no links? Why haven't you provided any proof at all that liberals are conspiring to convince others not to serve who would otherwise do so?]

 

Please explain why the 67 New Yorkers who have died in this war are not enough for the state of New York to avoid your charge of cowardice. Please let me know how many would be enough.

 

Can we count those who died on 9/11 as New Yorkers or at least "liberal elitists" from "elitist population centers" who have died in the war on terrorism? If so, what would that do to your precious per capita stats on what constitutes courage and cowardice?

[/dev/null]

I see no insult in the language you quoted, let me present some of the quotes from my posts that you ignore right along side quotes from your posts and will see who is bent on dividing people and hurling insults:

 

AKC:

 

"...liberal elitists in the major population centers..."

 

Mickey:

 

"I'll leave it to you to argue the numerical values of per capita sacrifices. Me, I just see them as Americans, all of them."

AKC:

 

" ...yet elite New York City sends the nationwide lowest percentage of Americans to the fight, instead allowing the kids from Bonesteel and other small towns to die protecting their elite centers."

Mickey:

 

"These are people, not statistics. To all of them and to all our soldiers, wherever they come from and whatever their politics are, thank you and God keep you safe."

 

AKC:

 

"...the disgusting cowardice of the loud-mouthed elite."

Mickey:

 

"I think the fact that 67 New Yorkers have died all on its own refutes the idea that New Yorkers let others die for them. At the same time, I value just as highly the 8 soldiers from South Dakota who have died. Then again, I am not the one counting numbers or insulting an entire state.

 

AKC:

 

"...communities that breed contempt for our military..."; "...liberal elitist establishments..."; "... the elitists in those major cities produce environments that discourage the same level of patriotism..."

 

Finally, after I don't know how many rounds of posts, you finally exempted those who have served from NY from you general slanders of the entired state, whereas complimenting all who served, regardless of zip code was something I did in my very first post in the thread.  A little late but you finally did say:

 

"God Bless every one of the war casualites from every state, none more so than those forced to overcome the cowardly influences of liberal metropolises."

 

What you still haven't done is answer any of my questions so I will ask them again:

Please offer a single quote from any of my posts in this entire thread which insult those in uniform. [still waiting]

 

Please offer a link to evidence that there are scads and scads of elitist cowards convincing other people in New York or California or whatever other states you insist on labeling as cowards, into not serving in the military. [where is the irrefutable proof you claim?]

 

Please offer an argument that service statistics can be explained only by levels of courage. [all you have offered so far is your opinion which you apparently think is "irrefutable", if it is so irrefutable, why no links?  Why haven't you provided any proof at all that liberals are conspiring to convince others not to serve who would otherwise do so?]

 

Please explain why the 67 New Yorkers who have died in this war are not enough for the state of New York to avoid your charge of cowardice. Please let me know how many would be enough.

 

Can we count those who died on 9/11 as New Yorkers or at least "liberal elitists" from "elitist population centers" who have died in the war on terrorism? If so, what would that do to your precious per capita stats on what constitutes courage and cowardice?

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so like, do you have a job? and if so do you put this much effort in there when you're actually working and not posting?

[RuntheDamnBall]

New York City and San Francisco deserve not a penny of tourist capital from decent, honorable Americans who love their country...

224984[/snapback]

Hold on, jack. You won't be missed. And watch where you're walking instead of looking up at the shiny lights, for Christ's sake.

 

Nice to see that New York is both the embodiment of American values (center of immigration, Wall Street, Statue of Liberty) and the bastion of all that is evil, depending on which best serves conservative ideology at the time. I suppose the WTC victims were all deserving because they lived/worked in a town that didn't honor America. [/sarcasm]

[AKC]

Mickey's "Look at me hide" Campaign. yawn..

 

 

Here's the critical question Mickey-

 

Will you, in the face of incontrovertible evidence, simply acknowledge that far higher percentages of our men and women in uniform come from rural areas of the country versus New York City?

 

It's yes or no.

 

If you continue to ignore the basic facts about the subcultures in our urban versus rural areas you are doomed to the continued political failures that are driving your party towards insignificance.

[DC Tom]

It is a volunteer army right now- although I fully support volunteers that would choose not to go and fulfill any so-called obligation.  Getting a loan, some college money, or even 100k a year doesnt obligate you to put yourself at risk for something you dont believe 100% in- or even 52%.

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WTF? In other words, the military's primary purpose is as a social program? Where'd you get this crap, out of a box of Cracker Jacks?

[VABills]

WTF?  In other words, the military's primary purpose is as a social program?  Where'd you get this crap, out of a box of Cracer Jacks?   

225130[/snapback]

What are Cracer Jacks?

 

Is that anything like Cancer Sticks???

[DC Tom]

What are Cracer Jacks? 

 

Is that anything like Cancer Sticks???

225198[/snapback]

 

Those are "Cracker Jacks" when I've got a damned cat on the keyboard.

[VABills]

Those are "Cracker Jacks" when I've got a damned cat on the keyboard.

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Well why don't you build them their own house, with electricity and give them their own computer.

[DC Tom]

Well why don't you build them their own house, with electricity and give them their own computer. 

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They have their own computer. They just prefer mine...

[VABills]

They have their own computer.  They just prefer mine...

225238[/snapback]

Have all the letters rubbed off their keyboards?

[Guest RabidBillsFanVT]

Insulting those in uniform? You are still determined to attach opposition to the war with insulting those in uniform! You should know be now that isn't gonna fly...

 

"Our valued heartland"? So that is the pulse of America? I think not...

 

Well, just remember that people of my political affiliation ALSO protect the rights of the conservative extremists who are hell-bent on acting any irresponsible way they feel like it, and serving their own selfish interests by using America as a common tool!!!

 

I STILL wan to know HOW FAR a conservative government has to go before YOU OBJECT to the use of military force. You still have not answered that question... or are you incapable of EVER objecting to it because it has the label 'Republican', or wherever our military goes, it is right automatically, without question?? Please, I am waiting...

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No response to my last question; the most CRUCIAL one that gets to the heart of the matter!! When would you object? How far would it have to go?

[Alaska Darin]

I guess I'll post this again, since liberal tard soundbyte day is in full swing...

 

Where was Abu Nidal when he committed suicide (if shooting yourself in the head 4 times can be considered suicide)? AP reporter S. Yacoub reported that Nidal arrived in IRAQ with the full knowledge of the Iraqi government. Ever take the time to wonder why Nidal would shoot himself in the head 4 times? Can't be because he refused to reengage in his prior activities at the behest of his hosts (the government of Iraq, headed by Saddam Hussein). Nah.

 

Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was known to be in Iraq before the war and was treated in Baghdad for injuries suffered in Afghanistan.

 

Ramzi Yousef traveled to America on an Iraqi passport.

 

Abu Abbas was captured in Baghdad.

 

It is a well documented fact that the Iraqi government paid $25K to the families of suicide bombers. 11 Americans are known dead because of these bombings.

 

Khala al Salahat who furnished the semtex that killed 189 Americans on Pan Am 103 surrendered to the 1st Marine Division in IRAQ.

 

Coalition Troops shut down at least 3 terrorist camps including Salman Pak, a base 15 miles from Baghdad. There was a full mock up passenger plane there used for training terrorists. The camp specialized in training terrorists from Egypt, Saudi Arabia and other Gulf States according to PBS' Frontline and testimony from Iraqi's in front of Congress in the spring of 2002.

 

The Phillipino government expelled a high ranking Iraqi diplomat after seizing cell phone records showing conversations between the official and leaders of Abu Sayyaf.

 

Farouk Hijazi was captured by US forces in IRAQ, near the Syrian border this year. He admitted to meeting with Al Qaeda on Saddam's behalf various times since 1994.

 

Thanks for playing, American Idiot.

[VABills]

No response to my last question; the most CRUCIAL one that gets to the heart of the matter!! When would you object? How far would it have to go?

225268[/snapback]

If we ever invade the Vatican that would be going a little too far.

[KRC]

No response to my last question; the most CRUCIAL one that gets to the heart of the matter!! When would you object? How far would it have to go?

225268[/snapback]

 

Not that this was directed at me, but it all depends on historical context of the matter along with current context. Without knowing what is happening at the time of the conflict, along with the historical context of the country in question along with potential regional implications there is no way one can answer your question, IMO.

[KRC]

I guess I'll post this again, since liberal tard soundbyte day is in full swing...

 

Where was Abu Nidal when he committed suicide (if shooting yourself in the head 4 times can be considered suicide)? AP reporter S. Yacoub reported that Nidal arrived in IRAQ with the full knowledge of the Iraqi government. Ever take the time to wonder why Nidal would shoot himself in the head 4 times? Can't be because he refused to reengage in his prior activities at the behest of his hosts (the government of Iraq, headed by Saddam Hussein). Nah.

 

Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was known to be in Iraq before the war and was treated in Baghdad for injuries suffered in Afghanistan.

 

Ramzi Yousef traveled to America on an Iraqi passport.

 

Abu Abbas was captured in Baghdad.

 

It is a well documented fact that the Iraqi government paid $25K to the families of suicide bombers. 11 Americans are known dead because of these bombings.

 

Khala al Salahat who furnished the semtex that killed 189 Americans on Pan Am 103 surrendered to the 1st Marine Division in IRAQ.

 

Coalition Troops shut down at least 3 terrorist camps including Salman Pak, a base 15 miles from Baghdad. There was a full mock up passenger plane there used for training terrorists. The camp specialized in training terrorists from Egypt, Saudi Arabia and other Gulf States according to PBS' Frontline and testimony from Iraqi's in front of Congress in the spring of 2002.

 

The Phillipino government expelled a high ranking Iraqi diplomat after seizing cell phone records showing conversations between the official and leaders of Abu Sayyaf.

 

Farouk Hijazi was captured by US forces in IRAQ, near the Syrian border this year. He admitted to meeting with Al Qaeda on Saddam's behalf various times since 1994.

 

Thanks for playing, American Idiot.

225270[/snapback]

 

There are more ties to terrorist activities than you listed, but what is the point? All of your other posts were ignored so it is pointless to try to add to it.

 

<DING> Hot Pockets are done!! Mmmmmm...Ham and Cheeeeese...

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

No response to my last question; the most CRUCIAL one that gets to the heart of the matter!! When would you object? How far would it have to go?

225268[/snapback]

 

I'll bite:

 

I don't care WHO the President is. If we are in a state of CEASE_FIRE with another country, and that country is in violation of the terms of the CEASE-FIRE, then that country should be dealt with harshly and appropriaterly.

[Mickey]

Mickey's "Look at me hide" Campaign.  yawn..

Here's the critical question Mickey-

 

Will you, in the face of incontrovertible evidence, simply acknowledge that far higher percentages of our men and women in uniform come from rural areas of the country versus New York City?

 

It's yes or no.

 

If you continue to ignore the basic facts about the subcultures in our urban versus rural areas you are doomed to the continued political failures that are driving your party towards insignificance.

225127[/snapback]

If you will provide military service statistics as I have asked you to do repeatedly, sure, until then, no, I am not going to defer to your opinion as irrefutable. The more salient question, and the one you have dodged, and dodged and dodged, is: do you think it proper to refer to NY and other "elitist population centers" as elitist liberal cowards as you have done many times now, given that plenty of NY'ers have died in this war? Which is the more important measure of courage and sacrifice, enlisting after graduation from HS or dying in combat?

 

Since you seem to think that per capita statistics are so important, try these on for size: The war on terror began on 9/11/01 when 2,992 Americans were murdered by terrorists. Since then, 1,438 have died in Iraq and 154 have died in Afghanistan. The depressing total for Americans lost in the war on terrorism is 4,430. Of those, 11 New Yorkers have died in Afghanistan, 67 in Iraq and 2,602 in the two towers, which, as you have pointed out so often, is really of no concern to anyone outside of NYC, one of those elitist liberal cowardly population centers you have slandered over and over.

 

That means that 60.5% of all those who have died in the war on terrorism were New Yorkers, cowardly liberals all.

 

The bottom line here my mean sprited friend, is that your post was vomited up for one reason and one reason only, to attack people you hate. You thought and thought and then thought some more and from some dark place you came up with a twisted set of logic that in your limited mind justified attacking an entire state as a bunch of cowards and worse, you used the sacrifice of soldiers as your ammo. I doubt any of the dead, be they from Kansas or New Jersey, Florida or California, Montana or Massachusetts would have anything but utter contempt for your attack against fellow Americans, arming yourself with their sacrifice for emotional appeal.

We are all Americans. The soil of New York is American soil, belonging to South Dakotans just as much as New Yorkers. Those bastards didn't attack New York, they attacked America. I would think that would mean as much to Nevadans as to Yankee fans.

 

The one good thing to come out of that darkest of days was that we were united. It wasn't the holy and courageous country mouse versus the cowardly liberal city mouse then. Well, it wasn't that for most of us. For some, like you, it was just more evidence of how rotten liberals are and how wonderful you are.

 

Thanks for the vitriol, it was very instructive as to your character. At least that much was learned in this exchange.

 

Keep telling me how per capita stats justify your hate. Just don't tell me that it isn't hate.