Kelly the Dog Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) The only question I have to that is if a receiver is worth that. For as great as Calvin Johnson is, he's been to playoffs once. But I love Watkins talent. I think that it has been proven that it doesn't matter who your star player or players are, they can be at almost any position. Surely it helps the most if they are at the most important positions, like QB and pass rusher. But the Steelers won the Super Bowl with their star player being a safety, and their other star a LB. The stars of the Ravens were a LB and a safety. They had good quarterbacking, and I would say that Big Ben is a franchise QB, but I wouldn't consider him a star player. That designation is for the truly elite. Edited October 6, 2014 by Kelly the Dog
Alaska Darin Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Darin, these contracts are not so expensive now with the new CBA. Watkins got about $20,000,000 over 4 years. That's the neighborhood I'm talking about. There are plenty of veteran players you can find for that money who are pretty much guaranteed to perform or the money can be spent keeping your own free agents (novel concept).
Kelly the Dog Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Watkins got about $20,000,000 over 4 years. That's the neighborhood I'm talking about. There are plenty of veteran players you can find for that money who are pretty much guaranteed to perform or the money can be spent keeping your own free agents (novel concept). True. And I doubt we will have any trouble paying for free agents that we want under El Petulante. But the trade for Watkins, up to #4, was partly to ensure that the pick given up in 2015 was around 20. Which is quite possible to happen and isn't nearly that amount of money. But yes, we better spend several million more on a quality FA to replace that missing #1 pick. I see no reason why we won't.
1B4IDie Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 The real question - CAN Sammy ever live up to the expectations that come for a player who cost you two first round picks, (hopefully only one of those a high one). Seriously - if he were taken by the Browns there and was doing for them what he is doing for the Bills, it would be high fives and ass slapping all around. Because of the price we paid - he needs to be a monster to meet the expectations. Look - I don't like the trade as I think the only position in the NFL you move up for in RD 1 (and give up a future RD1), is a QB as it is the most important, but he looks to be as good as advertised. His play won 2/5 games for the Bills over a replacement such as Ebron or Benjamin. Therefore it's already proven that the extra 1st wasn't too much. Everything else in his career is gravy.
Alaska Darin Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 True. And I doubt we will have any trouble paying for free agents that we want under El Petulante. But the trade for Watkins, up to #4, was partly to ensure that the pick given up in 2015 was around 20. Which is quite possible to happen and isn't nearly that amount of money. But yes, we better spend several million more on a quality FA to replace that missing #1 pick. I see no reason why we won't. I'd say around pick 20 we're looking at about $9M over 4 years. Not crazy money but maybe that's the difference in keeping a guy like Hughes.
Kelly the Dog Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 I'd say around pick 20 we're looking at about $9M over 4 years. Not crazy money but maybe that's the difference in keeping a guy like Hughes. Yep. That's a good point. We're entering a whole new galaxy as of Wednesday when Pegula takes over. Hughes is a tough one but I would do it unless the money he can get elsewhere is insane.
C-Man Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 I need to see a handful of plays like we saw yesterday. He needs to prove to his team mates that he was worth the pick. If the rest of the team believes in him, they will rise to his level.
JPS Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Meh. I voted no. I'd rather trade down, grab WR or OG and keep building the team. He has to go a long way to convince me otherwise.
Fan in Alaska Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 It is not just a matter of what he does for our team, but it is a matter of what he won't be doing to us by being on another team. Can you imagine Sammy being on another AFC East team, running wild in our secondary with his super-glue hands for the next 5-10 years?
PastaJoe Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 I'd rather have a great QB and an average WR, than an average QB and a great WR. The Bills will have an average QB for at least this year and next.
RyanC883 Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 A star player is two three times as good as a very good player IMO. You can't win without stars. It was worth it then and it's worth it now regardless of the QB. He won the game for us yesterday with a freak play because he's a freak elite player. this. you need stars. average players help you go 9-7 or 7-9 forever. We need more star/freak players. Also, it's Watkins 5th game in the NFL. What is he going to be like after a full season! I'd rather have a great QB and an average WR, than an average QB and a great WR. The Bills will have an average QB for at least this year and next. I think most would, but there is no way the Bills could guarantee themselves a great QB by staying put. They could and did guarantee themselves a GREAT WR, and an average QB in Orton.
BUFFALOKIE Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) The big question is what we do with the money we save from not having the pick. Does it allow us to keep a player or two or go out and sign a blue chip veteran? If that's the case, then it's a good trade. That is an interesting question! I haven't seen that angle discussed yet. And i voted yes for Sammy Hands. Edited October 6, 2014 by THE KIKO MONSTER
Augie Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Good things are expensive.... And he's a very good thing. Well worth it because that pick next year has a legitimate chance to be a Maybin or a Donte Whitner. It's not just us, every team is rolling the dice on every pick and sometimes you lose, even in round one. This was a sure thing in my mind.
Jim in Anchorage Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 I hate trading up in the draft. I probably would have just stayed there and hoped Evans fell or picked Ebron. That said, yesterday, he showed he was a special talent. That pass from Orton had pick 6 all over it and he made an unbelievable catch to help us win a game. It's such a risky trade but he can be one of the best wrs in the NFL. I don't get the Bradford love. What has he really proven so far? He also has struggled with injuries since college. Way too risky for the amount he will cost IMO. Do you have to knock Orton in every thread? I understand you worship EJ and are upset by his benching but just go with it. One thing I have noticed about you EJ fans. Against Huston his drops were making EJ look bad. In the Detroit game his circus catch's made Orton look good. Amazing what a week can do.
Bills Fan of St Augustine Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Naturally fans will be loving the pick after a win, and the Bills tied in the division lead with the Patriots after 5 games in being 3-2. Lets revisit this conversation next April, as so many things can happen between now and then. As adamant as some here are about spending a first round pick on an OG. I'm just as adamant about spending two first round picks AND a fourth for a WR. Especially considering the team still doesn't have their franchise QB. The one unequivocal position that touches the ball every offensive play is far, far more important then a WR. Both Kelvin Benjamin & Brandin Cooks look to be excellent receivers from this years draft. Now tell me a trade back for one of those two, while picking up an extra 2nd pick for a quality OG wouldn't have paid off big time. Pears at RG is a joke, and the run game, and offense is suffering for it. I love the win in Detroit, and that Sammy is a special player. Its just so far he doesn't look to be worth 3 players at this time. I hope Sammy is soon a top 10 WR with Orton at QB, and he single handedly destroys the Patriots. I may just change my mind - The OL is the reason everyone on this board is dissing Spiller! Decent OL with average QB play and solid WRs (Williams, Woods and Benjamin?) to go along with one of the top Ds in football takes us places beyond just a token playoff appearance. Super Bowl or Bust!
Virgil Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Until I know the qb or other player I'm missing out on next year, I really can't say. If it kills us on a need, then I don't like it
HOUSE Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Sore ribs are very painful, I couldn't even walk. Not sure how to rate an obviously injured player. Probably won't be 100% till after the bye .
Orton's Arm Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Yes! This flies in the face of the mantra getting sammy was betting the farm in Manuel. Why can't it work for orton too? Awesome WRs make QBs better. I alway thought the key with fitz was getting bigger targets who wouldn't need perfectly thrown balls. Let Brady and manning have the average WRs. They have the accuracy to deal with it. I voted against the trade. On the one hand, I think there's a very good chance Watkins will perform at the level you'd expect from a player chosen 4th overall; and considered one of the four elite players in the draft. As others have pointed out, teams need stars, and Watkins looks like he's in the process of becoming a star for the Bills. However, Bridgewater represented an opportunity for the Bills to obtain a long-term answer at quarterback. With the right trade up, the same could also be said about Bortles. There has been one franchise QB in Bills' history: Jim Kelly. Obtaining his successor fundamentally changes the equation for this football team. As important as a star at WR is, a very good QB dwarfs the impact even of that. On the other hand, I liked what I saw of Orton against Detroit. Enough to change my screen name, in fact. Best-case scenario: Orton is a top-15 QB for the Bills for at least the next five years. In which case, losing out on the chance to draft Bridgewater or Bortles wouldn't feel so bad.
Kirby Jackson Posted October 6, 2014 Author Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) Until I know the qb or other player I'm missing out on next year, I really can't say. If it kills us on a need, then I don't like it Which is the exact reason that I asked it as a yes or no. We don't have the luxury of hindsight and I wish that we would have asked before the year. I am firmly in the star camp. You win with stars and he is going to be one. I would rather have Sammy than Ebron and the 20th best player next year. It actually isn't that close for me. I have always been a Sammy fan but it is clear to me that he will be a star. Edited October 6, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
Recommended Posts