Nanker Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Yep. Sammy is absolutely screwing us out of a potential top 10 draft pick we don't have because we have him. I knew it. I knew it.
jimmy10 Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 At least the second time he had the presence of mind to look behind him first. Better situational awareness and no gestures, only slowing up. Not exactly the same thing.
Matt in KC Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 I voted no in the poll. There are a few things to understand about that vote though: This is a retrospective poll, with all the benefits of hindsight. I had no real problem with the trade at the time, and no real regrets now. You need play-makers to win, and I liked the commitment to winning now, even while I recognized the price was high and it was a bit of a gamble to have all that collateral tied up in a single player who might get hurt. Kelvin Benjamin has also been a very good play-maker. With what I've seen so far, I'd rather have him plus the additional picks the Bills gave up. Give me more time and hindsight, and I might change my mind again.
PromoTheRobot Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 I voted no in the poll. [*]Give me more time and hindsight, and I might change my mind again. How much better does Sammy have to play to change your mind?
NoSaint Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 (edited) How much better does Sammy have to play to change your mind? not to speak for him, but im guessing hes hanging on the other guys more than sammy. or the potential of sammy somehow having something derail him. it didnt seem he had any issue with the way sammy was playing currently, or expectations of bad things. Edited October 27, 2014 by NoSaint
Matt in KC Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 (edited) How much better does Sammy have to play to change your mind? If Sammy keeps this going until the end of the year and/or Kelvin fizzles (or at least looks just good and not a natural playmaker), I'll change my mind somewhere before the end of the season. Their stats are very close to each other: 38 receptions for 571 yards / 5 TDs, versus 38 / 590 / 5 for Benjamin. I'm not just a stats guy, but Benjamin passes the eye test too, and appears sturdier. A tie for performance takes my vote to Benjamin plus the extra picks. Correction! Watkins = 38 / 590 / 5 Benjamin = 38 / 571 / 5 (I had them backwards, not that it changes much.) Edited October 27, 2014 by Matt in KC
Alaska Darin Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 If Sammy keeps this going until the end of the year and/or Kelvin fizzles (or at least looks just good and not a natural playmaker), I'll change my mind somewhere before the end of the season. Their stats are very close to each other: 38 receptions for 571 yards / 5 TDs, versus 38 / 590 / 5 for Benjamin. I'm not just a stats guy, but Benjamin passes the eye test too, and appears sturdier. A tie for performance takes my vote to Benjamin plus the extra picks. Benjamin concerns me because he's had some problems off the field and his "talent" is being bigger and stronger than everyone else. Obviously the "bigger and stronger" part isn't going to change much but guys like that don't seem to have a long shelf life (David Boston comes to mind, though he wasn't "natural"). His game is all about dealing with contact, which increases the likelihood he's eventually going to get hurt. I'm not sure I've ever seen a WR get the seperation that Watkins gets on a regular basis. Dude is crazy talented.
Matt in KC Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Benjamin concerns me because he's had some problems off the field and his "talent" is being bigger and stronger than everyone else. Obviously the "bigger and stronger" part isn't going to change much but guys like that don't seem to have a long shelf life (David Boston comes to mind, though he wasn't "natural"). His game is all about dealing with contact, which increases the likelihood he's eventually going to get hurt. I'm not sure I've ever seen a WR get the seperation that Watkins gets on a regular basis. Dude is crazy talented. I don't know. I think being bigger and stronger endures better than speed in the NFL. Little dings can really derail a speedster's season. Don't get me wrong, I love love love Sammy's separation (though I love his ball-skills more), I just think those extra ~30-40 pounds Benjamin has will help his longevity comparatively in the NFL. They are both studs.
JPS Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 I voted NO. I meant it and had very good reasons for voting as such. I was wrong. This guy is the best parts of Andre Reed and Eric Moulds rolled into one. He's clearly the best player on the team and worth the defensive back Cleveland is going to draft with the 20th pick in the 1st round. He's making Orton look pretty good and vice versa.
Matt in KC Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 I'll grant you the off-field problems is a concern, Enough to sacrifice next year's 1st and more to avoid? Not for me (at least yet).
Alaska Darin Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 I don't know. I think being bigger and stronger endures better than speed in the NFL. Little dings can really derail a speedster's season. Don't get me wrong, I love love love Sammy's separation (though I love his ball-skills more), I just think those extra ~30-40 pounds Benjamin has will help his longevity comparatively in the NFL. They are both studs. I don't know. Calvin Johnson seems to miss a lot of time with lingering issues to his legs because he takes so many shots and he's significantly faster than KB. Watkins reminds me a lot of Larry Fitzgerald, who rarely misses time. I think it's going to be interesting to watch over time. The biggest factor in WR injuries seems to be QBs who don't make throws to get guys killed. EJ was doing it to Watkins even in preseason.
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 You have the numbers backwards. Sammy has the 590 yards and Benjamin 570, but moot point I guess. Of course, taking a look inside the numbers, we know that Sammy was hampered by the fact the EJ was our QB the first four games of the year. Sammy probably has a couple more TDs and 150 more yards if Orton was the QB from day one.
PromoTheRobot Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 If it makes everyone feel better they can put "Bills paid too much" on Sammy's bust in Canton.
Matt in KC Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 I don't know. Calvin Johnson seems to miss a lot of time with lingering issues to his legs because he takes so many shots and he's significantly faster than KB. Watkins reminds me a lot of Larry Johnson, who rarely misses time. I think it's going to be interesting to watch over time. The biggest factor in WR injuries seems to be QBs who don't make throws to get guys killed. EJ was doing it to Watkins even in preseason. Oh, absolutely. But that's the same if we took either WR, right? And I'd feel a lot better about Benjamin bouncing back from a square hit from a LB. You have the numbers backwards. Sammy has the 590 yards and Benjamin 570, but moot point I guess. Of course, taking a look inside the numbers, we know that Sammy was hampered by the fact the EJ was our QB the first four games of the year. Sammy probably has a couple more TDs and 150 more yards if Orton was the QB from day one. My bad. I edited my original post. I'm curious if Banjamin's numbers continue to come down as defenses figure out something out about how to defend him.
DanInUticaTampa Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Benjamin concerns me because he's had some problems off the field and his "talent" is being bigger and stronger than everyone else. Obviously the "bigger and stronger" part isn't going to change much but guys like that don't seem to have a long shelf life (David Boston comes to mind, though he wasn't "natural"). His game is all about dealing with contact, which increases the likelihood he's eventually going to get hurt. I'm not sure I've ever seen a WR get the seperation that Watkins gets on a regular basis. Dude is crazy talented. Another thing about benjamin is he has cam newton throwing to him, where as watkins has...you know
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 It's not so much Benjamin's numbers coming down, he has actually been fairly consistent through his first 8 games. It is more telling of Sammy really starting to get going with the QB switch.
Kirby Jackson Posted October 27, 2014 Author Posted October 27, 2014 I like Benjamin as a player quite a bit. He reminds me of the guys in Chicago. He will always be productive in the red zone even if he is neutralized elsewhere. He looks like a Pro Bowl player. Watkins is different IMO. He almost always looks like the best player on the field. His separation and ball skills are insane. I thought that he was going to be great coming out and was thrilled with the trade. He's even better than I thought. He can take over games. That is the main difference between good players and great players. Watkins makes plays when everyone in the stadium knows that the ball is going to him.
Alaska Darin Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Another thing about benjamin is he has cam newton throwing to him, where as watkins has...you know Agreed. I think Watkins is more capable of explosive plays while Benjamin is almost a specialist who is only going to hit "home runs" when the QB can throw him the ball in the endzone (he's not going to gain separation and beat someone to the endzone from 90 yards away).
Canadian Bills Fan Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Watkins NFL ranks as of today... Receiving yards:590 (tied for 10th) Receiving TD's:5 (tied for 12th) Receptions: 38 (tied for 24th) Targets: 67 Tied for 14th CBF
John from Riverside Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 If Sammy keeps this going until the end of the year and/or Kelvin fizzles (or at least looks just good and not a natural playmaker), I'll change my mind somewhere before the end of the season. Their stats are very close to each other: 38 receptions for 571 yards / 5 TDs, versus 38 / 590 / 5 for Benjamin. I'm not just a stats guy, but Benjamin passes the eye test too, and appears sturdier. A tie for performance takes my vote to Benjamin plus the extra picks. Correction! Watkins = 38 / 590 / 5 Benjamin = 38 / 571 / 5 (I had them backwards, not that it changes much.) Im just curious....could you please explain what you mean by "sturdier"
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