Deranged Rhino Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 In the scenario where we don't trade up for Sammy, we also don't forfeit our draft pick at #8. The question is how good would we be with Kelvin Benjamin or Odell Beckham this season (or a player at a different position), plus a first round quarterback next season. I'm glad Sammy is on our team but as always it still comes down to whether we are able to find a QB. No first round pick next season greatly hinders that pursuit, although it doesn't ruin it. Is there a first round QB that you see being available in the mid teens to late 20s (where the Bills will end up picking) that is a sure fire franchise QB? I don't think there is this year. I think it's a pretty weak class. Next year's QB class however, has some gems.
Kirby Jackson Posted October 21, 2014 Author Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) In the scenario where we don't trade up for Sammy, we also don't forfeit our draft pick at #8. The question is how good would we be with Kelvin Benjamin or Odell Beckham this season (or a player at a different position), plus a first round quarterback next season. I'm glad Sammy is on our team but as always it still comes down to whether we are able to find a QB. No first round pick next season greatly hinders that pursuit, although it doesn't ruin it. Eric Ebron would have been the pick of they couldn't trade up. We need to look at this as Ebron & next year's 1st and 4th. If you are looking at mid 1st round QBs you are talking Ebron & Cook or Petty vs. Sammy. Which is better? Edited October 21, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
Casey D Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 Eric Ebron would have been the pick of they couldn't trade up. We need to look at this as Ebron & next year's 1st and 4th. If you are looking at mid 1st round QBs you are talking Ebron & Cook or Petty vs. Sammy. Which is better? And the 4th was really Stevie Johnson.
Security Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 Atlanta went for it, and they are regretting their trade now for Julio Jones. They went all in on Julio Jones, same thing the Bills did, and they lost the year they had no number 1 pick. Jones is often hurt. He is banged up a lot. Super talented. All local media looks at the trade as a bust and a failure.
Utah John Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 When Watkins breaks all of Andre Reed's records and gets into the HOF his first year of eligibility, will we stop talking about this then? Geez. The draft is a crap shoot. The Bills are lousy at picking first rounders. There is no reason to believe the pick they would have saved next year would have been better than Losman, McCargo, or Maybin. For that matter, Manuel, who was also a first rounder. You can make a case that the Bills paid too much to move up just a few slots, but only for now -- once Watkins reaches his full potential that discussion will be moot. Atlanta went for it, and they are regretting their trade now for Julio Jones. They went all in on Julio Jones, same thing the Bills did, and they lost the year they had no number 1 pick. Jones is often hurt. He is banged up a lot. Super talented. All local media looks at the trade as a bust and a failure. The Bills had no first rounder in either 1988 or 1989, and did pretty well -- not having first rounders is not necessarily the kiss of death. Jones' injuries are keeping him from his full potential but he could still turn out great. And, take a look at what Cleveland did with all the picks they got. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/16/greg-littles-release-leaves-browns-with-one-player-left-from-julio-jones-trade/
Security Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 When Watkins breaks all of Andre Reed's records and gets into the HOF his first year of eligibility, will we stop talking about this then? Geez. The draft is a crap shoot. The Bills are lousy at picking first rounders. There is no reason to believe the pick they would have saved next year would have been better than Losman, McCargo, or Maybin. For that matter, Manuel, who was also a first rounder. You can make a case that the Bills paid too much to move up just a few slots, but only for now -- once Watkins reaches his full potential that discussion will be moot. The Bills had no first rounder in either 1988 or 1989, and did pretty well -- not having first rounders is not necessarily the kiss of death. Jones' injuries are keeping him from his full potential but he could still turn out great. And, take a look at what Cleveland did with all the picks they got. http://profootballta...io-jones-trade/ What the Browns did has no bearing at all on how it affects the team that trades the picks IMO. Falcons would much rather have all those picks and they would have taken different players. With that being said, I am very happy with Sammy Watkins. Kiko is our first round pick next year. Not having a first round pick should allow the Bills to potentially keep a guy like Hughes, perhaps.
Kelly the Dog Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 Atlanta went for it, and they are regretting their trade now for Julio Jones. They went all in on Julio Jones, same thing the Bills did, and they lost the year they had no number 1 pick. Jones is often hurt. He is banged up a lot. Super talented. All local media looks at the trade as a bust and a failure. The Falcons were back further and therefore gave up way more than we did. It's not a fair comparison. They spent two #1s, a #2 and two #4s.
zow2 Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 Watkins is so smoothe and those hands, my gosh he catches with his hands along the sidelines perfectly and always knows where his feet are in relation to out of bounds. I cannot even imagine how many catches and TD's he would have if he played for accurate QB's like Manning, Rodgers and Brady.
26CornerBlitz Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 Rookie receiver watch: Sammy Watkins takes the lead Here is the latest look at what could turn out to be a banner crop of rookie receivers. They are ranked by targets, which is a true measure of how much a receiver is utilized. We’re using the qualifier of having a minimum of four targets per game. Here’s the list of the top-targeted rookie receivers (28 targets needed to qualify): Sammy Watkins, Buffalo (62 targets): He had a monster game in the Bills' 17-16 victory over Minnesota. He was targeted 14 times and caught nine passes for 122 yards and two touchdowns. He now leads all rookies with 35 catches and has 433 yards and four touchdowns. This is the first time he’s topped this list. Kelvin Benjamin, Carolina (61): He only had three catches for 61 yards on six targets in a 38-17 loss to Green Bay, though one was for a touchdown. He has 34 catches for 477 yards and five touchdowns. The yardage and TDs lead all rookie receivers.
thewildrabbit Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) http://sports.yahoo....-181737491.html The mere fact that Sammy currently has around the same stats as Kelvin Benjamin drafted with the 28th pick shows that the Bills overpaid in giving up an extra 2015 #1 & #4....at this time! Now, should the moron Mr Can't Hackett stop using the Bills best weapon as a decoy...well then, Sammy would be far ahead of kelvin. Just think what a real NFL OC could do with Sammy in getting him more involved in every aspect of the offense. At RB in reverses, fake reverses, Slot WR, end arounds, and all sorts of trick plays just to get the ball in his hands more then just 2-3 times a game. We see flashes of real greatness, but not nearly enough every game. That said, the only way Sammy trade becomes a non argument is that if Orton or EJ stays the starter, and gets the team to the plays this year or next. Simply because the need for a franchise QB overrides every other position. Edited October 22, 2014 by FeartheLosing
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 http://sports.yahoo....-181737491.html The mere fact that Sammy currently has around the same stats as Kelvin Benjamin drafted with the 28th pick shows that the Bills overpaid in giving up an extra 2015 #1 & #4....at this time! Now, should the moron Mr Can't Hackett stop using the Bills best weapon as a decoy...well then, Sammy would be far ahead of kelvin. Just think what a real NFL OC could do with Sammy in getting him more involved in every aspect of the offense. At RB in reverses, fake reverses, Slot WR, end arounds, and all sorts of trick plays just to get the ball in his hands more then just 2-3 times a game. We see flashes of real greatness, but not nearly enough every game. That said, the only way Sammy trade becomes a non argument is that if Orton or EJ stays the starter, and gets the team to the plays this year or next. Simply because the need for a franchise QB overrides every other position. Because Kelvin Benjamin (with Cam Newton as a starter) has comparable stats in year one as Sammy Watkins (with Manuel and a no-training-camp Kyle Orton), through week 7, the trade is a failure? That is several hoops of bad logic and reactionary response that you're jumping through here, with a pretty damn small sample size to boot. You can look at the Watkins draft trade for what it is, but you can't judge it after half a season. We don't know what Benjamin can do without Cam Newton, so there is no apples-to-apples comparison here.
Kirby Jackson Posted October 22, 2014 Author Posted October 22, 2014 Because Kelvin Benjamin (with Cam Newton as a starter) has comparable stats in year one as Sammy Watkins (with Manuel and a no-training-camp Kyle Orton), through week 7, the trade is a failure? That is several hoops of bad logic and reactionary response that you're jumping through here, with a pretty damn small sample size to boot. You can look at the Watkins draft trade for what it is, but you can't judge it after half a season. We don't know what Benjamin can do without Cam Newton, so there is no apples-to-apples comparison here. I don't think that's what he's saying. I think what he is saying is that if the Bills used Watkins as they should the gap between he and everyone else would be fairly substantial. He has been held back by inferior QBing and play calling.
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 I don't think that's what he's saying. I think what he is saying is that if the Bills used Watkins as they should the gap between he and everyone else would be fairly substantial. He has been held back by inferior QBing and play calling. OK, got it. That doesn't make the trade a failure at this time, though. It simply means that Watkins is a Bentley that's been given to a guy with a learner's permit.
Kirby Jackson Posted October 22, 2014 Author Posted October 22, 2014 OK, got it. That doesn't make the trade a failure at this time, though. It simply means that Watkins is a Bentley that's been given to a guy with a learner's permit. Ha ha, I certainly don't disagree.
JohnC Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 I don't think that's what he's saying. I think what he is saying is that if the Bills used Watkins as they should the gap between he and everyone else would be fairly substantial. He has been held back by inferior QBing and play calling. Reasonable arguments can be made on both sides of the issue. What can't be disputed, however, is that Watkins is a dynamic player who has directly been instrumental in a couple of our wins. Without him the tenor of this season, at a very early stage, would be very different. One of the frequent arguments made by those who prefer not trading away next year's first pick for SW is that it could have been used for a qb. That is an assumption that isn't necessarily true. Is Whaley who no doubt was involved in the EJ pick going to give up on him so soon for another prospect? I don't believe so. If there is an elite prospect in next year's draft would the Bills who will probably draft from the middle of the pack and lower be in position to take an upper tier prospect? I have my doubts. When you hit big time on an impact player that should be a cause for celebration and relief. How many high draft picks has this quirky organization squandered? Whaley took a player he considered to be a dynamic player not only in this draft but in any draft year. As you have already noted as well as he has played just consider how even a better player he could be with high end quarterbacking? I'm more than pleased with the pick and the reasoning behind the pick. A little creativity and courage coming out of the front office of an organization known for its staidness is very refreshing and welcome.
1B4IDie Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Because Kelvin Benjamin (with Cam Newton as a starter) has comparable stats in year one as Sammy Watkins (with Manuel and a no-training-camp Kyle Orton), through week 7, the trade is a failure? That is several hoops of bad logic and reactionary response that you're jumping through here, with a pretty damn small sample size to boot. You can look at the Watkins draft trade for what it is, but you can't judge it after half a season. We don't know what Benjamin can do without Cam Newton, so there is no apples-to-apples comparison here. The one point is that the Bills actually have been open with what their pick would have been if they stayed at 9. It was not Kelvin Benjamin. Also the Brown have been open that they would have taken Sammy Watkins had they stayed put. So the Bills could have tried to trade up to 5 or 6 to get Watkins he would have been off the board at #4 By the Brown or Bills. We know what that variable would have been had the Bills did not trade up. It was the completely pedestrian and average TE, Eric Ebron. Drafting Eric Ebron at #9 overall would have been a huge mistake. Eric Ebron was not the fastest, biggest, strongest, or best receiving TE in the draft. His ascension to a Top 10 pick was mind boggling to me. Talk about opportunity cost. You could have gotten a similar player in the second round. So would you rather A.) Have Eric Ebron and a Top 10 pick in 2015. Or B.) Sammy Watkins and give the Browns a pick in 32-16 range? I choose B every time.
26CornerBlitz Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 @buffalobills .@RussBrandon on trading up for @sammywatkins: "They viewed him as a generational talent. We got a little glimpse of the future on Sunday"
Deranged Rhino Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 @buffalobills .@RussBrandon on trading up for @sammywatkins: "They viewed him as a generational talent. We got a little glimpse of the future on Sunday" The interesting part of this quote to me when I read it this morning was Brandon's use of pronouns. "They viewed him"... rather than "we". Probably doesn't mean anything, but I wondered if it was Russ making it clear (once again) that he's only on the marketing side of things now -- and when the pick was made.
Rob's House Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 When Watkins breaks all of Andre Reed's records and gets into the HOF his first year of eligibility, will we stop talking about this then? Geez. The draft is a crap shoot. The Bills are lousy at picking first rounders. There is no reason to believe the pick they would have saved next year would have been better than Losman, McCargo, or Maybin. For that matter, Manuel, who was also a first rounder. You can make a case that the Bills paid too much to move up just a few slots, but only for now -- once Watkins reaches his full potential that discussion will be moot. The Bills had no first rounder in either 1988 or 1989, and did pretty well -- not having first rounders is not necessarily the kiss of death. Jones' injuries are keeping him from his full potential but he could still turn out great. And, take a look at what Cleveland did with all the picks they got. [http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/16/greg-littles-release-leaves-browns-with-one-player-left-from-julio-jones-trade/ What's the relevance of that? Unless you're claiming ATL would have picked those same players, which they almost certainly would not have, it is utterly irrelevant for the purpose of judging the trade from Atlanta's perspective.
Kelly the Dog Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 The interesting part of this quote to me when I read it this morning was Brandon's use of pronouns. "They viewed him"... rather than "we". Probably doesn't mean anything, but I wondered if it was Russ making it clear (once again) that he's only on the marketing side of things now -- and when the pick was made. I think he does stuff like that all the time. nice catch.
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