RuntheDamnBall Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 His second to last NFL start was a playoff win against the Steelers where he threw for over 300 yds. Other teams getting film was not his downfall. Except for the 3 weeks prior he got crushed by the Pats, Bills (!) and Raiders. After the Steelers did whatever the hell they did there, the Pats destroyed him again. He also had the lowest completion % in the NFL - under 50%, which is unbelievably bad. I'm pretty sure that everyone recognizes that one game for what it is. I am still not sure how all this compares to Manuel. I'm not sure what your point is. Does it being his choice somehow make that reality less true? I guess it makes it harder for me to take it as an excuse for being rusty.
Rob's House Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) I guess it makes it harder for me to take it as an excuse for being rusty. I guess it would depend on what you mean by "excuse". If you're analyzing a guy's performance with an eye toward how well he projects going forward relative to another guy then it's pertinent information. I can't really think of a context where it wouldn't be. Edit: You're basically saying he wasn't rusty because he could have signed earlier. And I'll reiterate an earlier point, he doesn't need an "excuse". We won the game. The bust he replaced is the one who's needed all the excuses. Edited October 6, 2014 by Rob's House
What a Tuel Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) Bottom line is that there were a ton of factors that led to today's win. EJ's play in the first 4 weeks were a factor (good and bad) of our win/losses, but so was our defense, running game, etc etc Just like when EJ won and lost we don't put it all on him, so when Orton does the same we won't put it all on him. It is always a team effort in a win or a loss. Plus the Lions kicker was playing for our team There are plenty of plays of passes that were behind our receivers, and I guarentee the lot of you were pretty pissed with the team effort (specifically offense) in the first half with little hope to shutout the Detroit offense in the 2nd half and come back for a win. You can't really extract a two players and compare them across two different games, other players performance affect them. It is a team game. For those of you criticizing Manuel because we had so many rushing yards in his wins, are you taking into account all of the rushing yards we had against the Chargers (59) and Texans (93)? Funny how Orton gets a handicap for the poor running game but Manuel doesn't. Not to mention the Oline complaints that are suddenly credible under Orton. Regardless, I say let EJ develop like we originally planned and keep Orton in. We can't be flip flopping or else we will have 0 effective QB's. Edited October 6, 2014 by What a Tuel
FireChan Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 People keep posting about 300 yards. Orton's YPA today was 7.16. That's less than EJ's in each of the 1st two games this season IIRC. He'll need to better as the season progresses. Better accuracy on the intermediate passes and no more staring down WRs for dreaded pick sixes. He's capable of better than that and we all hope he delivers. Clearly, Doug Marrone believes that Orton is a better QB TODAY than EJ. That's really all that matters. Also, two weeks of film on Hackett later, and what was EJ's YPA? I guess it would depend on what you mean by "excuse". If you're analyzing a guy's performance with an eye toward how well he projects going forward relative to another guy then it's pertinent information. I can't really think of a context where it wouldn't be. Edit: You're basically saying he wasn't rusty because he could have signed earlier. And I'll reiterate an earlier point, he doesn't need an "excuse". We won the game. The bust he replaced is the one who's needed all the excuses. Clearly, because it's Orton's fault he's rusty, he will never UN-rust!
Utah John Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 The Bills played against a great defense today, with a weak O line. The interior of our O line couldn't do anything against the Lions. The inside running game was really tough, and none of the Bills backs could get wide against the fast LBs and DBs. So Orton stood in and made more good throws in one game than EJ has in four games. He hit Goodwin on a deep pass where he dropped it in, and he hit Sammy (hitting defined loosely, which is OK in Sammy's case) with tight, direct spirals. Against the Bears, EJ put up ducks twice which our WRs skied to pull down. That could have gotten two receivers killed, but fortunately didn't because the guys were so wide open they had time to leap and get back down. But neither chance was necessary, if EJ could just throw an accurate pass beyond 15 yards.
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 I guess it would depend on what you mean by "excuse". If you're analyzing a guy's performance with an eye toward how well he projects going forward relative to another guy then it's pertinent information. I can't really think of a context where it wouldn't be. Fair 'nuff. For the record, I think starting him is and was the right decision, and I think EJ can benefit from all this. What I don't think is necessary is all of the snide remarks about the other guy still on the team, and I do think that Orton has to be better than he was today for the team to be a season-long success.
Doug Flutie Band Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Instead of the silly avatar, please exlpain the difference between the two wins with EJ at the helm vs today with Orton. Orton threw a pick six to put the Bills in a deep hole to begin with and Sammy really bailed him out on the last drive with two terribly inaccurate throws. Orton is lucky that the Bills D played lights out and the Lions K was dreadful. No sense trying to explain it to you. You have a closed mindset and can't see reality. People like you continued to support Losman, Edwards, etc. long after it was clear they were busts.
26CornerBlitz Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) No sense trying to explain it to you. You have a closed mindset and can't see reality. People like you continued to support Losman, Edwards, etc. long after it was clear they were busts. Please explain reality to me since you're such a renowned expert. You're the one with a closed mindset, but my mind is open to EJ Manuel getting better. If you know the future, great for you! Clearly, Doug Marrone believes that Orton is a better QB TODAY than EJ. That's really all that matters. Also, two weeks of film on Hackett later, and what was EJ's YPA? Clearly, because it's Orton's fault he's rusty, he will never UN-rust! I see now, bury the young guy while making excuses for the vet. Makes perfect sense. Fair 'nuff. For the record, I think starting him is and was the right decision, and I think EJ can benefit from all this. What I don't think is necessary is all of the snide remarks about the other guy still on the team, and I do think that Orton has to be better than he was today for the team to be a season-long success. Thanks for making sense on this. It's exactly what I already posted in this thread and others. EJ cost the Bills a win last week and Marrone sat him down for the sake of the team because he regressed badly in weeks three and four. I'm fine with the decision. Edited October 6, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz
Ted William's frozen head Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 This post doesn't mean jack . You have no explanation of what I requested. Well, EJ CAN'T hit the broad side of a barn......
26CornerBlitz Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Well, EJ CAN'T hit the broad side of a barn...... Thanks for your analytical expertise. Much appreciated.
Ted William's frozen head Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 So if you can't run against a team you should always expect to break 300 yds passing? I guess you missed the GB game when Aaron Rodgers passed for 170 when his team only rushed for 70. How about Eli passing for 150 vs the Lions and when they totaled 50 yds rushing as a team. Logic isn't quite there my friend. Also, if the Lions have one of the best Dlines and the Bills Oline is putrid, why would Hackett go to the 5-7 step drop game? Shorter routes are the way to go while picking your spots to go deep. Did you read your own post? The WRs gave up on EJ but it's not an indictment of EJ? Who is it an indictment of? Wow. EJ would've given us his usual 117 yards against that defense.
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 EJ would've given us his usual 117 yards against that defense. How is it in the Land of Make Believe?
Rob's House Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Fair 'nuff. For the record, I think starting him is and was the right decision, and I think EJ can benefit from all this. What I don't think is necessary is all of the snide remarks about the other guy still on the team, and I do think that Orton has to be better than he was today for the team to be a season-long success. Nothing invites the snide remarks like tearing down other players to make the guy you're crushing on look better.
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Nothing invites the snide remarks like tearing down other players to make the guy you're crushing on look better. Guy I'm crushing on? And the snide remarks have been coming from the time the clock struck zero yesterday. And really before that. And who's tearing down anybody? Did you think Orton was great yesterday? I thought he was clearly good enough for this win. I don't know if that level of play will be good enough for the rest of the season, and if you do, I think you're going to be disappointed. But I hope you're right and that it's rust wearing off.
Dorkington Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 My one and only complaint about Orton was the pick 6 yesterday. That was really the only truly bad decision, imo. The rest were solid, he threw some good balls, he threw some bad ones, but that's football. We have good WRs that bailed him out a couple times, and that's also football. Not really sure where the debate is.
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 My one and only complaint about Orton was the pick 6 yesterday. That was really the only truly bad decision, imo. The rest were solid, he threw some good balls, he threw some bad ones, but that's football. We have good WRs that bailed him out a couple times, and that's also football. As long as we're willing to make that same observation when the good WRs do not bail out the QB, that seems entirely reasonable.
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