A Few Thoughts About The Game, in no particular order.....

[Agent 91]

It isn't that they run CJ it is that they just try and run him up the gut all day. Even against a solid interior defensive line.

 

But if Freddie is down next week then they gotta give Bryce Brown lots of the ball.

 

Why not Dixon?

[Agent 91]

 

 

Bottom line, we all have more confidence and trust in Orton right now. Is he a physically better QB than EJ, probably not. But he is in a better place mentally, and that is exactly what this team needs right now.

 

Couldn't be said better

[bowery4]

Was anyone else furious about the timeout call on our 2nd to last drive after Orton hit Sammy over the middle to get us into Detroit territory? There's no way you shouldn't let the clock keep running there and ensure we are the last to hold the ball. Easily forgotten given all the craziness that ensued afterwards, but we could have had a first down at the Detroit 40 with appx 45 seconds left and instead we call timeout with - 1:18 maybe? - and promptly go 3 and out from there.

IDK, for some reason I thought Det took the time out there, maybe I am wrong but that was what the announcer said if I remember correctly.

It be nice for him to have a few plays where juking a LB or DT in the backfield is not a prerequisite.

 

I don't think he played well today, but our run-blocking hasn't been very good this year. Most of the yardage has been gained on big chuck plays, not via consistent 4-8 yard pops. Spiller in space and on misdirection plays are awesome, maybe our coaching staff will put on some of the Gailey film and take note.

They will never do that. very different form of attack. Most plays we are bunched up, not spread. I wish CJ and Fred would both be on the field at the same time, when they have done that it has worked. They have used some misdirection plays with Spiller and Fred but what they are dialing up most of the time is uninspiring to say the least. I get the philosophy behind it but man it is conservative and unimaginative at some of the worst times. The end of the game was the exception to that.

 

All and all, that was a great defensive game by both teams and the Bills got lucky a bit at the end but Orton looked pretty good and we were on the road, I'll take it. BTW, I thought the momentum really changed with FJs speech to the O. The guy is what it means to be a Buffalo Bill, hope he is good to go next week.

 

Just finished watching the game (had a busy day), so it just ended for me. As exciting as a defensive game gets.

 

Regarding the (what seems to me) mystifying EJ vs. Orton debate: How anyone could have watched this season's five games and think that they are even remotely equal is beyond me. Orton has a better arm, is more accurate, more decisive, can throw deep, sees the field, sees his open receivers,... what's left? I suppose EJ can scramble/run better, although I cringed every time he did.

 

Watkins. Wow.

 

I believe that Fred Jackson might be my all-time favorite Bill. He was a leader today, and every game. He makes me proud to be a Bills fan.

 

Why does Hackett EVER have Spiller run up the middle?

 

I have more hope for the season now, than I have all year.

Check his stats running between tackles, it will surprise you (although I do kind of agree).

[Last Guy on the Bench]

They gave up seven freakin' points!

 

Doesn't matter. To be considered good, NFL DBs must never give up any plays whatsoever.

 

(Where the 300 yards that even the best defenses usually give up are supposed to come from, I don't know.)

 

But clearly, if I see a DB get beat in any way, then that DB is below average and should be replaced as soon as possible. It's not like the WRs and QBs they are facing are among the best athletes in the world or anything.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Doesn't matter. To be considered good, NFL DBs must never give up any plays whatsoever.

 

(Where the 300 yards that even the best defenses usually give up are supposed to come from, I don't know.)

 

But clearly, if I see a DB get beat in any way, then that DB is below average and should be replaced as soon as possible. It's not like the WRs and QBs they are facing are among the best athletes in the world or anything.

Would you not agree that Gilmore has been getting abused a bit more than one would like for a top-ten drafted first round corner in his third season?

[Agent 91]

 

 

Held Megatron to 0 catches before he caught one in front of McKelvin and got knocked out of the game.

 

Mckelvin drew him a few times as well. Gilmore had his hands full with Tate

[Last Guy on the Bench]

Would you not agree that Gilmore has been getting abused a bit more than one would like for a top-ten drafted first round corner in his third season?

 

Nope I would not agree. I don't think he's a pro bowler right now. But he is a solid player. Every game he disappears for huge stretches of time - which is a great thing for a DB. You don't hear anything about him play after play. Or how about what is happening on the back end of all of those sacks? Camera doesn't show it, but the DBs are doing something right.

 

As for draft position, half of top-ten draftees are busts. Would I be happier if he played like Peterson or Sherman? Sure I would. But I don't think that every top-ten pick who isn't an obvious stud is a bust or even a wasted draft pick.

 

I also think people overreact to the times they see DBs (on their own team) getting beat. Again, even the best defenses give up a couple of hundred yards passing per game. And all those catches ain't being defended by linebackers.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Nope I would not agree. I don't think he's a pro bowler right now. But he is a solid player. Every game he disappears for huge stretches of time - which is a great thing for a DB. You don't hear anything about him play after play. Or how about what is happening on the back end of all of those sacks? Camera doesn't show it, but the DBs are doing something right.

 

As for draft position, half of top-ten draftees are busts. Would I be happier if he played like Peterson or Sherman? Sure I would. But I don't think that every top-ten pick who isn't an obvious stud is a bust or even a wasted draft pick.

 

I also think people overreact to the times they see DBs (on their own team) getting beat. Again, even the best defenses give up a couple of hundred yards passing per game. And all those catches ain't being defended by linebackers.

Getting beat I can take. 1-2 stupid penalties + getting beat, I cannot.

[Agent 91]

It's a team sport, and Mario makes Williams and Darius that much better. As a unit they played incredibly well, I see nothing to complain about. Just because someone is paid 2x or 3x someone else does not mean you can expect them to "play" 2x or 3x better. They are really jelling as a group and I'm loving what Schwartz is doing..

 

You mean its wrong to expect... no... DEMAND that Mario gets 33 sacks a season because Dareus has 11 and makes a 3rd of Mario money? The nerve of you

[Last Guy on the Bench]

Getting beat I can take. 1-2 stupid penalties + getting beat, I cannot.

 

Don't love that either. He is a grabby, physical CB. Seems to work for him overall (when he is not wearing a cast), but it burns him pretty regularly. I'm not arguing he is an elite CB. But I think he is solid. Maybe he'll get better, I don't know. But solid CBs are hard enough to come by that I'm happy to have him for a long time, even if the level he is playing at right now is his peak (debatable).

[Campy]

If I'm the Bills, I give Lions' placekicker Henery a game ball - he's the reason the Bill aren't 2-3.

[Orton's Arm]

Good thread as usual Bill. Below are a few of my own observations:

 

1) It's difficult to overstate the dominance the Lions' DL achieved over the Bills' OL. If a coach got a group of 8th grade OL together, and had them face 12th grade DL, you'd get the outcome I saw against the Lions.

 

2) Due to the Lions' domination of the Bills' OL, Orton didn't have much time in the pocket at all. His two options were to dump the ball off or take the sack. He chose the former. But on the rare occasions when he received decent protection, he usually went down field. His throwing accuracy seemed reasonably good.

 

3) It's worth bearing in mind that just two weeks ago, the Lions defense played exceptionally well against Aaron Rodgers and the Green Bay Packers. Even one of the 15 best QBs in NFL history couldn't overcome the kind of defensive domination the Lions produced.

 

4) Yes, I realize the Lions' DL is ridiculously good. Nevertheless, I'm becoming increasingly convinced that the weakest position on this team is the OL--especially offensive guard. Kyle Orton solidifies what would otherwise be a weak QB position.

 

5) If, in the upcoming draft, the Bills go OG in the second and OG again in the third, we could have a real team. The defense--while not perfect--seems very strong overall. The offense has what appears to be a reasonably good QB; and has good play makers. Special teams are strong. But the offensive line is dragging down the offense as a whole. If you could mitigate the Lions' domination over the Bills' OL, we would have seen an entirely different ballgame.

[Bill from NYC]

Good thread as usual Bill. Below are a few of my own observations:

5) If, in the upcoming draft, the Bills go OG in the second and OG again in the third, we could have a real team. The defense--while not perfect--seems very strong overall.

 

Yes, we need guards. I said before the season that Pears is not a guard. He is a brute strength RT. Period.

 

As for the defense, this game tells us that we might even have some depth up front. This is very encouraging.

 

CJ is a third down back. That's what he is. And he's a really good 3rd down back at that. Dangerous on kick returns. Sadly he has not shown much to merit a lot of talk as a 1st and 2nd down back. I want to like him and I know he has big games left in him, but I bet he's not a Bill next year.

 

Did you see his "block" on the near safety of Orton. Oofah.

 

Yes I did and it bordered on cowardice. Granted it was a huge defender, but he was in a position to make a block and it looked as if all he did was lean his shoulder in there.

 

That was an awful play.

[CSBill]

Good thread as usual Bill. Below are a few of my own observations:

 

1) It's difficult to overstate the dominance the Lions' DL achieved over the Bills' OL. If a coach got a group of 8th grade OL together, and had them face 12th grade DL, you'd get the outcome I saw against the Lions.

 

 

Okay, yes they are good, and yes our o-line is still a big work-in-progress (wasn't Urbik at least an average LG? at this point, average would be a huge upgrade).

 

But here's the thing . . .

• which Defense had six (6) sacks?
  
• which defense gave up the most yards?
  
• which defense gave up ONLY 7 points?
  
• and which defense was missing two starters, arguably their best lineman and best linebacker?
  

You think our online is bad, compare it to Detroit's …. I would say their QB was under the gun far more than ours was.

 

Anyhow, just saying.

[Bills Fan of St Augustine]

Very peculiar time to question a trade that was made 5 months ago.

If you're going to call something out , at least follow the thread and the conversation.

[eball]

Great post as always, Bill. I woke up this morning and read every post in this thread, and have come to the conclusion that while there are a lot of decent folks on this board, and a number of good Bills fans, there are also a tremendous number of people who apparently have no idea what they are watching on Sunday.

 

We have people saying Mario Williams' dominant performance on the D line isn't good enough because he makes too much money, that the Bills committed too much to the running game against one of the best D lines in the league (they ran 22 times, attempted to pass 45), and that it doesn't matter if Sammy Watkins becomes a star because the Bills still paid too much to get him.

 

Here's the thing, people -- the Bills beat a team that just a couple of weeks ago embarrassed Aaron Rodgers by coming back from 14 down, on the road, with a journeyman QB who hadn't played since last December. They allowed Detroit to convert ONE out of ELEVEN third downs -- without blitzing! They had a rookie WR make a play-of-the-year type catch to put them in position to kick a 58-yard FG.

 

These are the games no Bills team of the past 14 years had a chance at winning.

 

My dad is still in the hospital but I took my iPad to him so he could watch the game on Sunday Ticket. Yesterday after they won he apparently cheered and the nursing staff at first thought he was in distress, until the nurse who had been checking on him told them it was ok. I called my mom's cell phone and had her put it on speaker, and I played the shout song for them.

 

My parents were going to use my tickets next week to go to Buffalo for the Pats* game and unfortunately can't do that now, but what a great time to be a Bills fan.

 

Sit back and enjoy this -- we haven't see the likes of it in some time.

 

Go Bills!

[RuntheDamnBall]

I don't want to take the wind out of anyone's sails. Wins are fun.

 

I do like what Nick Mendola said in a comment yesterday. It's buried so I'm sharing it here:

They scored a touchdown. A single touchdown. I’m hopeful that I’m wrong but in no way do I think an EJ Manuel-led run-heavy offense couldn’t have scored 17 points. Nor do I think it would’ve been enough if Henery could make a field goal.

I’m happy they won, obviously. I hope very much I’m wrong. But my mind wasn’t changed today. I’m still open to the possibility I was wrong. I’m nowhere near convinced.

The defense was amazing. The Lions kicker missed three field goals. Matt Stafford was awful without Calvin Johnson, Joique Bell and, mostly, Reggie Bush. If that makes you feel vindicated, cool. I need more.

Also, Detroit is good. So that’s a big road win. I’ll take it. Just saying. Hopefully I’m eating my words after next week.

I also want to point out that after the Miami win, we were riding high, and rightfully so. The Bills had just beaten a team that had just schooled the Patriots. The division looked wide open.

 

Next week will be as important a test, and I still think we need to see a lot better from Orton and especially Hackett to secure a win.

 

I'm going to be there, so I have a little skin in this next game. Here's hoping.

[CSBill]

 

 

These are the games no Bills team of the past 14 years had a chance at winning.

 

My dad is still in the hospital but I took my iPad to him so he could watch the game on Sunday Ticket. Yesterday after they won he apparently cheered and the nursing staff at first thought he was in distress, until the nurse who had been checking on him told them it was ok. I called my mom's cell phone and had her put it on speaker, and I played the shout song for them.

 

My parents were going to use my tickets next week to go to Buffalo for the Pats* game and unfortunately can't do that now, but what a great time to be a Bills fan.

 

 

Go Bills!

 

First and foremost eball, I hope your dad recovers quickly.

 

Second, when I read that I was reminded of that scene from Hoosiers when they won the regional championship and Shooter (Dennis Hopper) goes crazy in the hospital ward (and this is still the best sports movie of all time).

[bills_fan_in_raleigh]

One thing from listening to Orton presser he understands what he did wrong on the pick 6 but also on an incomplete to chandler. EJ a doesn't seem to understand these things. I did note that EJ was making a note after Kyle threw it at feet of rb when he was under pressure versus taking the sack

Edited October 6, 2014 by bills_fan_in_raleigh

[Big Gun]

Did the Lions sign Matt Prater yet?