KOKBILLS Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 I'm not here to defend Manuel, but he did make that pass to Mike Williams in game 1 vs. the Bears (in OT). Agreed... EJ made a few very nice passes that should have been big plays in the 1st 4 games...He just missed too many opportunities on pitch-and-catch-type-plays...Especially on 3rd Downs...That's all...Too many in the dirt, or too high, or too low, or behind...It was the accumulation... Even still, if that last INT vs the Texans had been properly called illegal contact on the DB, and EJ somehow got the Bills into the endzone, he would have been starting yesterday...And who knows how that would have worked out...
Orton's Arm Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Isn't it remarkable how "solid" qb play affects the perception of the team and its outlook for the rest of the season? What impressed me the most about Orton is how someone who hasn't played in a long time steadily adjusted to the speed of the game as it went on. In the fourth qb he was in a good passing rhythm. Most NFL analysts would categorize Orton as at best a pedestrian qb who is in the fading stage of his career. Yet, by having a qb who knows how to play and is reasonably accurate he has invigorated a team that was on the verge of spiraling downwards. I agree Orton provided solid QB play. He's no Joe Montana--as we saw on the pick six--but his overall body of work in that game was strong. IIRC, he's only 31. While that's too old to be considered a long-term solution at quarterback, I'd have no objection to his being the starter for the next few years. If the opportunity arises for the Bills to draft a Bridgewater or Bortles-type prospect, they should snap that QB up. But in the meantime, Orton can hold down the fort. In fact, I have so much confidence in Orton's ability to hold down that fort that I've just changed my screen name. Granted, my past track record in that regard hasn't been great. But hopefully the third time will be the charm. I believe that Orton can play at a higher level than Trent Dilfer, and that the Bills' WRs are much better than the WRs on the Ravens of 2000. With a decent offensive line, we could have a much stronger passing attack than that team had. Our defense won't be as insanely good as that defense was. But maybe our superior passing attack will be enough to compensate for that. Normally, you'd expect the Lombardi Trophy to go to a team with a franchise QB + a complete team surrounding him. But off the top of my head, I can't think of any teams which meet that description. Guys like Manning, Brees, and Brady are nearing retirement, and it's not like there's a group of first - third year QBs of equal talent emerging to take the places of those three giants. Not only that, but the best QBs in the league at the moment are not on complete teams. Just as it's easier to win the AFC East than usual, it might also be easier to win the Super Bowl than usual. However, the Bills won't belong in that latter discussion until they've fixed their problems at offensive guard. None of their other weaknesses are necessarily show stoppers. But the situation at OG is completely unacceptable for any team with serious post-season aspirations.
dave mcbride Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 I agree Orton provided solid QB play. He's no Joe Montana--as we saw on the pick six--but his overall body of work in that game was strong. IIRC, he's only 31. While that's too old to be considered a long-term solution at quarterback, I'd have no objection to his being the starter for the next few years. If the opportunity arises for the Bills to draft a Bridgewater or Bortles-type prospect, they should snap that QB up. But in the meantime, Orton can hold down the fort. In fact, I have so much confidence in Orton's ability to hold down that fort that I've just changed my screen name. Granted, my past track record in that regard hasn't been great. But hopefully the third time will be the charm. I believe that Orton can play at a higher level than Trent Dilfer, and that the Bills' WRs are much better than the WRs on the Ravens of 2000. With a decent offensive line, we could have a much stronger passing attack than that team had. Our defense won't be as insanely good as that defense was. But maybe our superior passing attack will be enough to compensate for that. Normally, you'd expect the Lombardi Trophy to go to a team with a franchise QB + a complete team surrounding him. But off the top of my head, I can't think of any teams which meet that description. Guys like Manning, Brees, and Brady are nearing retirement, and it's not like there's a group of first - third year QBs of equal talent emerging to take the places of those three giants. Not only that, but the best QBs in the league at the moment are not on complete teams. Just as it's easier to win the AFC East than usual, it might also be easier to win the Super Bowl than usual. However, the Bills won't belong in that latter discussion until they've fixed their problems at offensive guard. None of their other weaknesses are necessarily show stoppers. But the situation at OG is completely unacceptable for any team with serious post-season aspirations. I was waiting for the name change! It's been a long time.
Tsaikotic Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Or ton showed in one game why we have a chance to get into playoffs. Nice to have a QB that throws like a man. Urbik had to start at rg next game. Cyril, shows me promise n size n does not quit. I'd figure a way to get Kujo, Hairston training at God slots but Urbik should go in next game. Sammy looked great n wait till our red zone offense starts utilizing Mike Williams. Time for Grag to get more Pzt as can't stand Chandler who falls after BEFORE he catches anything it seems. fixed
Bill from NYC Posted October 6, 2014 Author Posted October 6, 2014 I was waiting for the name change! It's been a long time. Yes, and how great is the originality of his screen names? Kelly's Arm, Marino's Arm, Elway's Arm would be trite, unimaginative names imo.
Realist Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 I will not pass judgment on CJ until the OLine starts to block a little better for him. CJ needs space to show his true talents and the line just isn't giving him anything. Fred can make some plays, because he is the bruiser type. If the line can just give him a little more room we'll see what CJ can do.
Thunderstealer Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 The two point conversion--I'd like to know if Orton called that play after seeing no Suh or Fairley, or if the play was decided in the huddle. Detroit gave up hundreds of pounds of D-line on that crucial play. I'd be furious if the Bills took out Kyle Williams and Marcel for such a play.
Deranged Rhino Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 The two point conversion--I'd like to know if Orton called that play after seeing no Suh or Fairley, or if the play was decided in the huddle. Detroit gave up hundreds of pounds of D-line on that crucial play. I'd be furious if the Bills took out Kyle Williams and Marcel for such a play. It was a check on the line by Orton. Confirmed by St. Doug in his post game as well as Kyle's.
The Dean Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 The two point conversion--I'd like to know if Orton called that play after seeing no Suh or Fairley, or if the play was decided in the huddle. Detroit gave up hundreds of pounds of D-line on that crucial play. I'd be furious if the Bills took out Kyle Williams and Marcel for such a play. I read that Orton made the decision at the line, but that it had been discussed as an possible audible while on the sidelines (I think that's the way I remember it). He mentioned it was hard to hear and he is glad Fred got the right play. That's what I remember, but my memory has been a bit challenged the past few days.
GunnerBill Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Dean - your memory is not failing on this occasion. That is what Orton said happened.
JohnC Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 In fact, I have so much confidence in Orton's ability to hold down that fort that I've just changed my screen name. Granted, my past track record in that regard hasn't been great. But hopefully the third time will be the charm. Dam you! You are going to jinx Orton. Change your name right now! Your insignia is a kiss of death. Normally, you'd expect the Lombardi Trophy to go to a team with a franchise QB + a complete team surrounding him. But off the top of my head, I can't think of any teams which meet that description. Guys like Manning, Brees, and Brady are nearing retirement, and it's not like there's a group of first - third year QBs of equal talent emerging to take the places of those three giants. Not only that, but the best QBs in the league at the moment are not on complete teams. Russell Wilson is a terrific young qb who won a SB with a very well rounded team. Andrew Luck is a very good qb now who will eventually be a special qb. Just as it's easier to win the AFC East than usual, it might also be easier to win the Super Bowl than usual. However, the Bills won't belong in that latter discussion until they've fixed their problems at offensive guard. None of their other weaknesses are necessarily show stoppers. But the situation at OG is completely unacceptable for any team with serious post-season aspirations. Your unbridled enthusiam after one Orton quarterbacked game is out of control. For your sake you need to tone it down. In my mind the Bills are still a fringe wildcard team. As you noted the guard play is simply atrocious. Why the organization let a reasonably priced Rhinehart go befuddles me?
Rob's House Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 I'm saying, it's basically 7 or 0 for the Lions outside of the 30 or so. One miss is lucky, sure, but then ours cancel out. Alex Henery is legitimately bad. Missing three field goals is not luck. It's our defense doing their job and taking advantage of a weakness on their roster. I can see how it sounds silly, but I'm just saying that a lot of people are pointing to that as a "lucky" reason we won. It's not like the Texans were lucky they played EJ Manuel. It's a team game and if a team has a weakness, you try to take advantage of it. Kicking unit is a part of the team too. Also, Marrone may have accepted that 3rd down holding call.
Orton's Arm Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 Dam you! You are going to jinx Orton. Change your name right now! Your insignia is a kiss of death. Russell Wilson is a terrific young qb who won a SB with a very well rounded team. Andrew Luck is a very good qb now who will eventually be a special qb. Your unbridled enthusiam after one Orton quarterbacked game is out of control. For your sake you need to tone it down. In my mind the Bills are still a fringe wildcard team. As you noted the guard play is simply atrocious. Why the organization let a reasonably priced Rhinehart go befuddles me? > You are going to jinx Orton. Change your name right now! Your insignia is a kiss of death. It is too late for that. Once you've changed your screen name, you can't change it again for six months. The die has been cast. > Your unbridled enthusiam after one Orton quarterbacked game is out of control. For your sake you need to tone it down. Hopefully I'll be turning my enthusiasm up after the Bills beat the Patriots! If the bridles have already been taken away from my enthusiasm, then maybe by this time next week I'll be discarding the saddle too! > In my mind the Bills are still a fringe wildcard team. Fair enough. I don't think they can be considered a serious Super Bowl contender this year, due to the situation at offensive guard. But if we could dramatically upgrade both OG spots in the offseason, and if Orton can play good, solid football, the Bills become a realistic part of next year's conversation about Super Bowl contenders. Will they actually win the Super Bowl at that point? Probably not. But at least they'll have a single or double digit chance of winning, which would be much better than their usual chance. (Which in my opinion has been less than a tenth of a percent.)
Billsguy Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 Lions kicker should get the game ball from the Bills. Sammy Watkins miraculous catch turns Orton from the goat to the savior. The standings don't lie, but the current euphoria might be premature. I think expectations should be realistic.
thewildrabbit Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 Lions kicker should get the game ball from the Bills. Sammy Watkins miraculous catch turns Orton from the goat to the savior. The standings don't lie, but the current euphoria might be premature. I think expectations should be realistic. It was a confluence of crazy events that led to that win in Detroit. Nobody other then Bills fans thought they had a chance to win that game. Sometimes its better to be lucky. Their kicker having a complete meltdown that cost him his career. He went 0-for 3. The injury to Calvin Johnson that took him out of the game, left Stafford with limited passing options. The lions losing their first 3 RB's, and ended up using a 4th string against Buffalo. Reggie Bush, Joique Bell, Theo Riddick all out injured. George Winn came in and missed a few passes. The one QB that has never lost to the Lions in all those years as the Bears QB is still perfect against Detroit.
Kelly the Dog Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 It was a confluence of crazy events that led to that win in Detroit. Nobody other then Bills fans thought they had a chance to win that game. Sometimes its better to be lucky. Their kicker having a complete meltdown that cost him his career. He went 0-for 3. The injury to Calvin Johnson that took him out of the game, left Stafford with limited passing options. The lions losing their first 3 RB's, and ended up using a 4th string against Buffalo. Reggie Bush, Joique Bell, Theo Riddick all out injured. George Winn came in and missed a few passes. The one QB that has never lost to the Lions in all those years as the Bears QB is still perfect against Detroit. We didn't have our pro bowl DT and our best overall LB in the game. Two of our DBs got hurt in the game with one carted off in a stretcher. We had a series of outlandish calls against us. We played with a QB who has played one game in two years and has one total month with the team and only one week of practice where he got many reps. Starting two rookies on the OL, a 5th and a 7th round pick, against the top defense and front four in the league. It goes both ways.
Orton's Arm Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 We didn't have our pro bowl DT and our best overall LB in the game. Two of our DBs got hurt in the game with one carted off in a stretcher. We had a series of outlandish calls against us. We played with a QB who has played one game in two years and has one total month with the team and only one week of practice where he got many reps. Starting two rookies on the OL, a 5th and a 7th round pick, against the top defense and front four in the league. It goes both ways. Just to add to what you've written: Orton threw a pick six against the Lions. Most weeks he's not going to do that. (Just as most weeks Detroit's FG kicker won't go 0-3.) If all players on both teams were healthy, and if Detroit had a credible FG kicker, I think they're a slightly better team than the Bills. But the margin is close--closer than I'd thought before the game.
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