Bangarang Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Reggie Bush got 4 years and $16M and he is the best comp for CJ. There are rumors that he is looking for $5M a year (4 years $20M is in my head). Would you make that deal? No, I wouldn't pay CJ that much because it's obvious our coaching staffs haven't been able to use him well enough. If I'm the GM then I'm rolling into next season with Jackson, Brown and Dixon and using the money saved from CJ on Glenn and Dareus. RBs are a dime a dozen and Bryce Brown has shown enough talent to warrant getting meaningful carries during games. That's just my amateur GM opinion though.
Kirby Jackson Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 No, I wouldn't pay CJ that much because it's obvious our coaching staffs haven't been able to use him well enough. If I'm the GM then I'm rolling into next season with Jackson, Brown and Dixon and using the money saved from CJ on Glenn and Dareus. RBs are a dime a dozen and Bryce Brown has shown enough talent to warrant getting meaningful carries during games. That's just my amateur GM opinion though. Fair enough, I don't know what I would do. It's an interesting topic for sure. There are a few decisions that are much easier (you mentioned 2 in Glenn and Dareus).
John from Riverside Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Take the money your gonna give Spiller and give it to Hughes
Utah John Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 CJ is a great back ONLY when his wheels are balanced and he's got performance tires. Fred Jackson finds ways to excel regardless of his bumps and bruises, but he's just a better footballer than CJ. Gailey found ways to get CJ in the clear and that worked well. The O line now, especially the interior O line that needs to pull in front of sweeps or screens, is really bad this year. For this reason I think Hackett might actually be doing pretty well, designing game plans that avoid disasters from our weak guard play, while keeping the defense honest by rushing a lot. Against a great defense like Detroit, there wasn't any room. Against weaker, slower defenses, there could be a lot of room around the corner for CH. Of course CJ is aging. I don't know if CJ might have a lost half a step since Gailey departed, but he doesn't look quite as shifty. Still really fast of course. He ran the kickoff back 102 yards in 11 seconds, while making a cut near the start and then slowing down at the end, wearing full pads and a helmet. That'll do. But when he has to make people miss he loses a lot of his speed, more reduction than I see with other backs or what I remember his first year or two. Generally RBs who rely on speed and quickness fall off the cliff younger and quicker than powerful, tough, thinking RBs like FJ. Look how quickly Chris Johnson became so ordinary.
4BillsintheBurgh Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 I don't see why CJ would want to stay, this offense does not suit him well. I will be surprised if he even gives us a chance and I think the only thing that may give us a chance to keep him is if we flush the coaching staff and someone who runs an offense more suited to him is hired.
peterpan Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) Yeah, I'm sure that his success has nothing to do with his limited carries and that, at 33 years old, he will hold up just fine carrying the load of #1 RB. Freddie is already is the #1 RB and has been ever since we traded Lynch....??? Take the money your gonna give Spiller and give it to Hughes +1000 Edited October 6, 2014 by peterpan
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 I don't see why CJ would want to stay, this offense does not suit him well. I will be surprised if he even gives us a chance and I think the only thing that may give us a chance to keep him is if we flush the coaching staff and someone who runs an offense more suited to him is hired. Agreed and he'll go to Denver, NO, or Philly and become a star.
mrags Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 TDs are a very overrated metric for assessing a RB's skill. So much of it depends on the play calling at the goal line and an offense's ability to get within the 10 yard line. Edgerrin James - a probable HOF player - had only 9 TDs in 2004 despite having a phenomenal season (2031 yards from scrimmage) because Indy threw it into the end zone (Manning had 49 TD passes that year). In 1994, the Cowboys were second in points and 8th in yards, but Aikman (a great QB) only threw 13 TDs and Emmitt Smith had 22 TDs. Does that mean that Aikman wasn't good that year? Of course not. Despite the lack of TD passes, he was great at getting the team into the red zone. Plus the o-line was phenomenal - far better than the 2012 Bills o-line. Speaking of which, in 2012 the offense-challenged Bills were 28th in plays per drive, 21st in yards per drive, and 20th in points per drive. They weren't getting into the red zone nearly enough that season. so if your argument is that the TD stat is not a realistic way to account for how well a RB played, then why can't I argue that total yards is just as false of a gauge as well? How bout the statistic of his carries without his long breakout runs? How about the amount of times he could have had large runs but doesn't because his vision is terrible? How about the amount of times that he makes the wrong decision to stay in or out of bounds? It works both way, you see. Speaking of 2012... Why is it that the rest of our offense struggled, but our RBs played well? Maybe because we were behind quite a bit and the defenses we were facing were giving is the run so that we couldn't pass? This is just too easy to defend my opinion. When all the "pro CJ" opinions are just filled with what Ifs and excuses. It's ok. You'll see. He will not finish anywhere near 1,000 yards this season. He'll be signed by some other team and for 3 yours you will see him produce about the same as he has with us for 5 years. Then you will wonder what ever happened to him and make claims that he could have been so good if he had just been used properly.
The Big Cat Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 This is just too easy to defend my opinion. When all the "pro CJ" opinions are just filled with what Ifs and excuses. We've seen this trend so many times, I'm shocked that fans don't eventually get hip to it. If your only argument to support a player/coach is to make excuses about it being the fault of all the other players/coaches...then the player/coach just isn't that effective.
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 so if your argument is that the TD stat is not a realistic way to account for how well a RB played, then why can't I argue that total yards is just as false of a gauge as well? How bout the statistic of his carries without his long breakout runs? How about the amount of times he could have had large runs but doesn't because his vision is terrible? How about the amount of times that he makes the wrong decision to stay in or out of bounds? It works both way, you see. Speaking of 2012... Why is it that the rest of our offense struggled, but our RBs played well? Maybe because we were behind quite a bit and the defenses we were facing were giving is the run so that we couldn't pass? This is just too easy to defend my opinion. When all the "pro CJ" opinions are just filled with what Ifs and excuses. It's ok. You'll see. He will not finish anywhere near 1,000 yards this season. He'll be signed by some other team and for 3 yours you will see him produce about the same as he has with us for 5 years. Then you will wonder what ever happened to him and make claims that he could have been so good if he had just been used properly. I love how you bash people for stating real problems with the team around Spiller. We have Syracuse's OC and a bad oline. How is McCoy doing this year with their banged up oline? We've seen this trend so many times, I'm shocked that fans don't eventually get hip to it. If your only argument to support a player/coach is to make excuses about it being the fault of all the other players/coaches...then the player/coach just isn't that effective. I've seen a guy average 6 ypc and 10 yards a catch at the NFL level. As one of the most gifted offensive players I've ever seen in college. What has Hackett ever done to not think he is part of the problem? Was Syracuse ever considered a good offense when he was there?
Wayne Cubed Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) I've seen a guy average 6 ypc and 10 yards a catch at the NFL level. As one of the most gifted offensive players I've ever seen in college. What has Hackett ever done to not think he is part of the problem? Was Syracuse ever considered a good offense when he was there? I like CJ Spiller, but c'mon man... He did it for one season. Don't you find even a tiny bit odd that FJ, getting older, changing schemes and his production hasn't dipped yet the Bills can't get CJ going? Is this the Chris Johnson argument now? EDIT: And if FJ is able to adapt and just keep chugging along what does that say about CJ? This guy with all the talent in the world can't find a way to make it work? It's getting harder and harder to buy into. Edited October 6, 2014 by Wayne Cubed
mrags Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 I love how you bash people for stating real problems with the team around Spiller. We have Syracuse's OC and a bad oline. How is McCoy doing this year with their banged up oline? I've seen a guy average 6 ypc and 10 yards a catch at the NFL level. As one of the most gifted offensive players I've ever seen in college. What has Hackett ever done to not think he is part of the problem? Was Syracuse ever considered a good offense when he was there? i remember a lot of players being great in college too. Ryan Leaf. Jamarcus Russell. Rashaan Salaam. Kijana Carter. James Hardy. Mike Williams. The list could go on and on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. Just like all the excuses for CJ.
The Big Cat Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 I love how you bash people for stating real problems with the team around Spiller. We have Syracuse's OC and a bad oline. How is McCoy doing this year with their banged up oline? I've seen a guy average 6 ypc and 10 yards a catch at the NFL level. As one of the most gifted offensive players I've ever seen in college. What has Hackett ever done to not think he is part of the problem? Was Syracuse ever considered a good offense when he was there? Firstly, wtf does the bolded have to do with...ANYTHING? Secondly, I already answered your first question. Hackett put together winning game plans last year with Tuel, Lewis and Manuel. THIS year, against some of the best defenses in the league, through five games, he's done the same. I get that because we don't have the mobile interior line to run non-stop screen and pitch plays to CJ he should be fired and all, but for you to say he hasn't put the offense (AS A WHOLE) in a position to succeed...well, that's just completely !@#$ing false.
dave mcbride Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 so if your argument is that the TD stat is not a realistic way to account for how well a RB played, then why can't I argue that total yards is just as false of a gauge as well? How bout the statistic of his carries without his long breakout runs? How about the amount of times he could have had large runs but doesn't because his vision is terrible? How about the amount of times that he makes the wrong decision to stay in or out of bounds? It works both way, you see. Speaking of 2012... Why is it that the rest of our offense struggled, but our RBs played well? Maybe because we were behind quite a bit and the defenses we were facing were giving is the run so that we couldn't pass? This is just too easy to defend my opinion. When all the "pro CJ" opinions are just filled with what Ifs and excuses. It's ok. You'll see. He will not finish anywhere near 1,000 yards this season. He'll be signed by some other team and for 3 yours you will see him produce about the same as he has with us for 5 years. Then you will wonder what ever happened to him and make claims that he could have been so good if he had just been used properly. Um ... you're (again) picking an argument with me about things I never said. My only point here is that TDs are an overrated stat. I have not stated an opinion about Spiller one way or the other here. And I'm not using the TD argument as a stalking horse either.
NewEra Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 I think we'll offer him a contract meant for what he should be... a situational runner, or a guy who is used more in the slot/space more than anything. But another team will give him starting RB money, so I don't think we keep him.
mrags Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Um ... you're (again) picking an argument with me about things I never said. My only point here is that TDs are an overrated stat. I have not stated an opinion about Spiller one way or the other here. And I'm not using the TD argument as a stalking horse either. im not picking anything with you. You chimed in and stated that TDs is an overrated stay when assessing RBs. I argued a point. If you didn't want to argue with me about it, you probably should to have quoted me and thrown in your opinion. Not trying to be a dick here. It's blatantly obvious there isn't a single person on this site that doesn't know my opinion of CJ. So when someone quotes me and creates an argument, I'm going to argue it.
rfk Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 your apparently not understanding the sarcasm. space like outer or inner or just his own bench
NewEra Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Prior to the season I was really worried about losing cj. I would have been ok with paying him 5 mill max. Now, the only thing that really matters is extending Dareus, then Glenn. Bradham and searcy if possible too. If we let marcel walk, it'll be something we regret for years to come. A true difference maker on D. Our best player this season without a doubt. Could be the best DT in the nfl.
dave mcbride Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 im not picking anything with you. You chimed in and stated that TDs is an overrated stay when assessing RBs. I argued a point. If you didn't want to argue with me about it, you probably should to have quoted me and thrown in your opinion. Not trying to be a dick here. It's blatantly obvious there isn't a single person on this site that doesn't know my opinion of CJ. So when someone quotes me and creates an argument, I'm going to argue it. I think a lot of people agree with you to some extent, but I don't think many (if any) have reached the point where they think Spiller is trash (which seems to be your view, but let me know if you think I'm wrong). I think he's a talented but limited player who has had one very good season out of five. I do think he's misused, but I say that without knowing how well he actually runs routes in the passing game.
PromoTheRobot Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Spiller has talent. We're just not using it effectively or putting him in places to best exploit it.
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