YoloinOhio Posted October 6, 2014 Author Posted October 6, 2014 I remember thinking Pete Carroll was a jerk when he gave an interview redraft saying Sanchez needed to go back to USC- but I guess if you aren't staying long term you can make comments like that to keep top talent an extra year or two and jump ship without recruiting repercussions exactly.
Buffalo_Stampede Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Interesting Jimbo spoke with Buddy Nix and not Whaley. I guess Whaley off the hook.
NoSaint Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 exactly. Kids playing for free and has a shot to make his great grandchildren rich with his draft spot and he's going to knock him in the media (imho to control his underclass players) is about as low as he could do... Just be positive
dave mcbride Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Interesting Jimbo spoke with Buddy Nix and not Whaley. I guess Whaley off the hook. Only if you believe his statement that he didn't speak with any other teams. My post above suggests that this isn't plausible. Lots of teams worked him out. You think they didn't ask the coach about him?
GG Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Gerry, that would be very funny if true, but it's not. Scroll down: http://www.rotoworld...28554/ej-manuel . Only half funny. Appears that Bills & Eagles may have been the only serious ones interested in him early on, and Bills being the only ones who asked Jimbo for his opinion. BTW, Jeremiah nailed it.
DrDawkinstein Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) It is not clear at all that EJ was the best QB in that draft class, and even if he were/is, at best that is saying someone is the tallest midget. It was a terrible draft for QBs and definitely not the one to waste a first round pick on a QB. Another huge Nix blunder. That's why we traded down, still got our guy, and added Kiko Alonso to the team as well. Huge blunder indeed... It's pretty safe to say that Whaley got this before he drafted him. I like Whaley...he's made some good moves. But what an idiot. Just because the guy has the measurables doesn't mean he'll make it in the NFL especially as a 1st rd QB. QB was our biggest need and we had to draft one. Which other QB from that class would you rather have? Who did we miss out on? My choice that entire season was Geno Smith, and boy was I wrong. Ryan Nassib cant even hack it as a backup. Edited October 6, 2014 by DrDareustein
FLFan Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Child? What did I say that wasn't spot on correct? The decisions made by Nix and Jauron, along with their "be calm, all is well" demeanor directly led to why we are STILL struggling, especially at QB! If that thought process is "childish," I'll go suck my thumb! It is and you should do that.
K-9 Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) Interesting Jimbo spoke with Buddy Nix and not Whaley. I guess Whaley off the hook. Brandon and Whaley spoke to an FSU groundskeeper about EJ. I find it TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE that they didn't have extensive conversations with Fisher and other FSU coaches as well. Schefter got caught with his tit in a ringer on this. GO BILLS!!! Edited October 6, 2014 by K-9
ALF Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Getting Kiko eases taking EJ, getting Henderson eases giving next year's 1st rd for Sammy. So many teams burn a 1st rd pick on QB and miss.
YoloinOhio Posted October 6, 2014 Author Posted October 6, 2014 Brandon and Whaley spoke to an FSU groundskeeper about EJ. I find it TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE that they didn't have extensive conversations with Fisher and other FSU coaches as well. Schefter got caught with his tit in a ringer on this. GO BILLS!!! Of course they did. They knew all of his flaws, issues, positives and upside. They knew every tiny detail that you could ever imagine. They thought they could mold him into what what they wanted. They didn't have time, it turned out.
dave mcbride Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) Only half funny. Appears that Bills & Eagles may have been the only serious ones interested in him early on, and Bills being the only ones who asked Jimbo for his opinion. BTW, Jeremiah nailed it. I find implausible that scouts for the Browns, Bengals, and Eagles - all of whom worked EJ out - didn't touch base with Fisher. Scouts from every team lurk around FSU's campus year round. It's a gold mine for talent. They talk with the coach(es) all the time. I also suspect that the Jets and Bucs sniffed around too. Both drafted QBs in the first three rounds. Bear in mind that 11 FSU players (!!) were drafted in 2013 by 7 different teams. Honestly, it just looks like CYA for Fisher, who realized he stepped in it. Edited October 6, 2014 by dave mcbride
K-9 Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 I find implausible that scouts for the Browns, Bengals, and Eagles - all of whom worked EJ out - didn't touch base with Fisher. Scouts from every team lurk around FSU's campus year round. It's a gold mine for talent. They talk with the coach(es) all the time. I also suspect that the Jets and Bucs sniffed around too. Both drafted QBs in the first three rounds. Honestly, it just looks like CYA for Fisher, who realized he stepped in it. They wouldn't have taken the time to work him out WITHOUT first talking to Fisher and his assistants as well. A great deal of background work is done before bringing him in for interviews and workouts and that work ALWAYS includes discussions with all of his coaches. Always. GO BILLS!!!
MichFan Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 Urban Meyer STILL says he thinks Tim Tebow can be an NFL QB. Everyone laughs at him, but it is a total d*ck move for Fisher to say this now. Urban Meyer still thinks Aaron Hernandez is a good kid who just needs mentoring and guidance.
YoloinOhio Posted October 6, 2014 Author Posted October 6, 2014 Urban Meyer still thinks Aaron Hernandez is a good kid who just needs mentoring and guidance. no, he doesn't. Mich fan.
8-8 Forever? Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 But Fisher did not say he could not develop the tools he needed. Ok, in 20/20 hindsight, he was drafted too high (we'll never if Jets would have taken him instead of Geno) but he has exceptional size, arm strength, mobility and character. He may be able to learn the rest with reps and coaching and time. We don't know yet. I still like him. We shall see. They never intended for him to start last year anyway. that was Kolb's job. But then everything changed. they are getting a re do on the strategy this year with KO. All good. Everyone relax. EJ is not going anywhere. I find implausible that scouts for the Browns, Bengals, and Eagles - all of whom worked EJ out - didn't touch base with Fisher. Scouts from every team lurk around FSU's campus year round. It's a gold mine for talent. They talk with the coach(es) all the time. I also suspect that the Jets and Bucs sniffed around too. Both drafted QBs in the first three rounds. Bear in mind that 11 FSU players (!!) were drafted in 2013 by 7 different teams. Honestly, it just looks like CYA for Fisher, who realized he stepped in it. I like this explanation . CYA for Fisher. Politics play a part in all this.
Orton's Arm Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 I find implausible that scouts for the Browns, Bengals, and Eagles - all of whom worked EJ out - didn't touch base with Fisher. Scouts from every team lurk around FSU's campus year round. It's a gold mine for talent. They talk with the coach(es) all the time. I also suspect that the Jets and Bucs sniffed around too. Both drafted QBs in the first three rounds. Bear in mind that 11 FSU players (!!) were drafted in 2013 by 7 different teams. Honestly, it just looks like CYA for Fisher, who realized he stepped in it. I think we have to allow for at least the possibility that those other teams worked out Manuel not because they were interested in him, but as a pre-draft smokescreen to conceal their true drafting intentions. If the Eagles' supposed interest in Manuel was never intended to be anything more than a smokescreen, it would have been unnecessary for them to speak with Fisher. In which case, it's at least possible his public statement was true in its entirety. However, I think that there's an excellent chance your post is 100% accurate. If you're right, at least part of Fisher's public statement was a deliberate falsification. In which case, the statement in its entirety loses all credibility. If we take Fisher's words at face value, the only team seriously interested in Manuel was the Buffalo Bills. All the other teams which worked him out did so as a pre-draft smokescreen. If on the other hand we dismiss Fisher's statement as a lie, then there's no evidence with which to contradict Schefter's report. If 31 out of 32 teams didn't think highly enough about Manuel to ask his coach about him, then that's an extremely serious indicator that a first round pick shouldn't have been used on him. If, on the other hand, his college coach warned teams he didn't have a bright future in the NFL, that's also an extremely serious indication that he shouldn't have been drafted in the first three rounds. Whether Fisher was telling the truth or lying, this story is yet another indication that Manuel didn't warrant a first or second round draft pick.
dave mcbride Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) I think we have to allow for at least the possibility that those other teams worked out Manuel not because they were interested in him, but as a pre-draft smokescreen to conceal their true drafting intentions. If the Eagles' supposed interest in Manuel was never intended to be anything more than a smokescreen, it would have been unnecessary for them to speak with Fisher. In which case, it's at least possible his public statement was true in its entirety. However, I think that there's an excellent chance your post is 100% accurate. If you're right, at least part of Fisher's public statement was a deliberate falsification. In which case, the statement in its entirety loses all credibility. If we take Fisher's words at face value, the only team seriously interested in Manuel was the Buffalo Bills. All the other teams which worked him out did so as a pre-draft smokescreen. If on the other hand we dismiss Fisher's statement as a lie, then there's no evidence with which to contradict Schefter's report. If 31 out of 32 teams didn't think highly enough about Manuel to ask his coach about him, then that's an extremely serious indicator that a first round pick shouldn't have been used on him. If, on the other hand, his college coach warned teams he didn't have a bright future in the NFL, that's also an extremely serious indication that he shouldn't have been drafted in the first three rounds. Whether Fisher was telling the truth or lying, this story is yet another indication that Manuel didn't warrant a first or second round draft pick. The thing is, I feel secure in saying that there were probably about a dozen teams that would have taken Manuel by the 4th round if he was there. Teams do tons of homework on guys they take in the middle rounds, as you know. That includes talking with the coaches. Edited October 6, 2014 by dave mcbride
Orton's Arm Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) The thing is, I feel secure in saying that there were probably about a dozen teams that would have taken Manuel by the 4th round if he was there. Teams do tons of homework on guys they take in the middle rounds, as you know. That includes talking with the coaches. From the link you shared earlier in the thread: ******************* Scouts Inc.'s Matt Williamson predicts FSU QB E.J. Manuel will go in the top 40 selections in the 2013 draft. This is the highest we've seen Manuel predicted. The Florida State quarterback has the physical talent to be considered early in the draft, but he's been far too inconsistent in college. In January, NFL Network's Mike Mayock said he was told Manuel was expected to be selected in the third- to fourth-round. ****************** The above block of text partially confirms the opinion in your post. I'm not sure I agree that a dozen teams would have taken him by the third or fourth round. But odds are that at least one--and probably more than one--non-Bills team would have been willing to take him that early. Taking him in the third or fourth round is easier to justify than taking him in the first. This is not to suggest that I personally would have used a third or fourth round pick on him; because I wouldn't have. But at least a GM who did use such a pick on him could later say, "He didn't demonstrate great accuracy or information processing in college. We knew odds were heavily against him becoming a quality NFL starter, which is why we waited until the fourth round to take him." An approach like that might not be perfect, but it's worlds better than going "all in" on a QB who hadn't demonstrated accuracy or good information processing ability while playing college ball. Edited October 6, 2014 by Orton's Arm
Solomon Grundy Posted October 6, 2014 Posted October 6, 2014 The only way the organization messed up was by playing EJ behind an offensive, offensive line. EJ has shown promise, regardless from what all his distractors say. Marrone was smart to sit him and watch a veteran work behind a young, inexperienced offensive line. Watch a veteran command a huddle, not to rush his reads when pressure is coming, subtle movement in pocket to allow receivers to get open. All of this was supposed to happen behind Kolb. So what that it's happening a year later behind a better QB in Kyle Orton. Go Bills!!!
YoloinOhio Posted October 7, 2014 Author Posted October 7, 2014 The only way the organization messed up was by playing EJ behind an offensive, offensive line. EJ has shown promise, regardless from what all his distractors say. Marrone was smart to sit him and watch a veteran work behind a young, inexperienced offensive line. Watch a veteran command a huddle, not to rush his reads when pressure is coming, subtle movement in pocket to allow receivers to get open. All of this was supposed to happen behind Kolb. So what that it's happening a year later behind a better QB in Kyle Orton. Go Bills!!! i don't think the Bills have stopped developing or given up on EJ. I do think things could change if Whaley and/or Marrone are fired after this season because a new regime won't have any ties or investment in him and will want their own guy. But I think they will be back, jmo.
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