uncle flap Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 Here, you touch on my problem/concern with Hackett. Too many people blame CJ for not running better up the middle, or maybe it's the Guards. Pears is abysmal. 3/5's of our line was changed this summer. Stevie was too erratic, so he was traded. EJ is horrible... benched. Pears, Urbik, Stevie, CJ... all looked great in Chan's offense. Suddenly, they all suck? We were a mid-ranked offense under Chan. Now, with better players (supposedly) we're ranked 27? At some point, the coaching staff have to look at themselves. The biggest difference IMO btw Chan and Hackett wrt to the running game is that even tho opposing defenses were squatting on Fitz's short passing game, the defense was still stretched horizontally- so there was more space for the running game. The line still wasnt all that good in pass protection, Fitz just got the ball out quickly. The screen game was more effective too, because the d line pinned their ears back to pass rush against the spread. Against EJ, DCs can stack the box and cheat toward the run bc EJ hasn't shown he beat them through the air on a consistent basis. It's certainly a valid argument to say Hackett could/should scheme more to create space for the run game, but EJ would still be an/the issue because a. he's generally inaccurate on short throws (which also lack velocity- allowing the coverage an extra split second to recover), b. he seems to panic when the first read isn't wide open, and c. he doesn't or can't anticipate when/where receivers will be open. Basically, I think the line is more or less the same, it's just that defenses were playing differently because of EJ. The scheme is limited by EJ, and EJ's execution limits the overall production.
jr1 Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 This offensive line is worse at protecting people than the secret service. EJ will be starting again in a few weeks
26TrapDraw Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 Still beating that drum , even though it's proven Hacketts schemes have had receivers open all over the field and the QB doesn't have the ability to get them the ball or the opponent defense stacking 8 or 9 in the box limiting the Bills running ability also because the QB doesn't have the ability to keep the defense honest by getting his receiver the ball, but you want to keep blaming Hackett. Ok whatever. I think Orton is going to be throwing the ball all over the field and you will see EJ was the sole problem with this offense. +1
filthymcnasty08 Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 Yes, we do have our receivers running around wide open and at times "college open" and much of that credit goes to the OC. There have also been many instances of play calling, formations and personnel packages that are completely insane for the situation the offense was in. If I could see that much from my chair, that is a problem. That is why crafty offensive football minds are employed for a LONG time in this league…you have to be THAT good to continuously beat NFL DC's. Theres a level of skill and competence necessary to compete and I do not believe our OC was ready for that level.
DanInUticaTampa Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 I still holdout some hope that with better OL play that.EJ could play well. It isn't fashionable to acknowledge in the media or on this board, but a mixture of a young QB, young WRs, a weak OL, and an inexperienced Offensive Coordinator is most often going to look about like what we've seen. Poor OL play affects QB play - go ask Tom Brady how he is enjoying playing under pressure form pass rushers. Ill go with this. Though if we don't make the playoffs, coaching staff will change and EJ will be riding the bench next year
Rockinon Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 I do think EJ can be a good QB in this league. And I think his comments this week were very revealing and informative. As I have watched him, one of the most frustrating things about him is his hesitancy as a player. He never seems sure of himself, never seems to have the confidence to make quick decisions that involved some risk, but can also bring great reward. And it seems to be most obvious when he runs … he never looks like he is willing to take a challenge as a runner, and on many occasions has left 1st downs on the field in the name of playing it safe. Why? Well first, he is by nature a conservative person and as we say, "a people pleaser." He will do what his coaches tell him to do. And all year he has been preached to about not losing games. Don't take chances, don't do stupid things, don't get hurt. So someone with his natural personality whom hears this message day in and day out, the outcome is what we have seen: An occasional big play, and a whole bunch of cautious plays with scant reward. Or, a lot of frustration for those of us watching. Why 2? I blame this on Hackett. And EJ's comments this week confirm that in my my mind. His new attitude, "I'm going to go out there and let it rip," "do what I can do." Why wasn't he doing that already? He was never given permission to do that. No doubt, we don't want him to be reckless and/or to take silly gambles. But you do want a little Brent Favre in your QB. All good ones have that edge to them (i.e. Jim Kelly). It is not natural with EJ, and when he has an Offensive Coordinator sitting on his shoulder (or in his ear piece) constantly telling him what not to do, and, calling plays that reinforce that conservative and cautious mentality and conservatism, well, you get the results we have seen. In the end, I blame this more on Hackett than EJ. This is a pretty intuitive way of looking at it. However, I'd like add some more to this. Last year, Hackett was pushing hard to go faster with a hurry up offense. The practices are fast paced. The problem with this is a QB needs time to absorb what they are learning. I think a better approach is to run your offense slow but emphasize quick reads. Once a QB is able to make decisions quickly, you can then turn up the speed dial. We are dealing with not only a young inexperienced QB but also a young inexperienced coach. You can't be expected to come out making quick reads and managing a hurry up without the experience. I think the coaches have put a lot of pressure on the young man. Add in also some offensive linemen that have had to learn on the fly while going up against some great defenses and the pressure on the QB goes up even further. EJ will be fine. It sucks for him that has to benched, but he may learn about taking control of the huddle, making his reads quicker and getting the ball where it needs to be by watching a 10 year veteran at work. He does have the talent. All he needs is time to grow into his job.... something he has not been given. Unfortunately for him, he ran out of time. The team is bigger than EJ and the coach knows this team as a whole is ready to win now. There just isn't enough time to get EJ ready and win games now. Winning is the bottom line in this league.
Kellyto83TD Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 Hackett yes, as he hasn't had an even decent QB to work with. EJ no, he is nothing more than a bigger version of RJ, JP, Trent etc.
sjjr Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 I support them both as much as ever. EJ needs more time and experience before passing judgement on his future. As we've known all along, if he can put all of the tools together he can be a great player. He needs development and this takes time. Hackett also is developing. Like his dad's offense and most offenses for that matter, he is looking to be able to run the ball with 6-7 guys in the box and use play action. Once that safety comes up, beat em deep. Offenses don't need to be rocket science. We have to remember the Bills offense is very young. They need time to develop. While developing, they are going to have good and bad games. That's what we're seeing.... Go Bills
YoloinOhio Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 Haxkett should have eased himself into the league. say, like a QC coach or something..... he did IIRC, with TB
uncle flap Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 (edited) he did IIRC, with TB I'm sure that was a joke: http://www.buffalobi...d0-97cd22f444aa Nathaniel Hackett re-joined the Buffalo Bills as offensive coordinator in 2013 after previously serving as offensive quality control coach from 2008-09. Edited October 5, 2014 by uncle flap
Saint Doug Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 I still support EJ, even though I really don't know if he'll succeed. I just think he's too young to write-off. Remember when we drafted him and the Bills brass was describing him as a 3-4 year project? I guess they've changed their minds and are panicking due to the new ownership. This offensive line is worse at protecting people than the secret service. EJ will be starting again in a few weeks If that's true, then it would make little sense to have EJ starting in a few weeks.
Fixxxer Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 Can't believe this thread, of course you support them. WTF.
Malazan Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 I want to support EJ. I really do. But it's hard to when a guy that has this much talent around him still can't get it done. And don't get me started on Nate Hackett. I didn't like the signing from day 1, but I was hoping he'd prove me wrong. But after seeing CJ get stuffed up the middle on the first play of 90% of our series', I have concluded that this man has no idea what he is doing. I hate most of his play calls, especially on 1st and 3rd downs. They are absolutely mind blowing at times. He needs to go ASAP. You can not like their plan or their performance, but if you don't support them then why are you paying attention to the team? You should be supporting them...not rooting for the "I told you so" moment.
YoloinOhio Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 I'm sure that was a joke: http://www.buffalobi...d0-97cd22f444aa ok... I guess I didn't get the joke. Anyway his first nfl job was with the Bucs 2006-07.
Best Player Available Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 he did IIRC, with TB Sarcasm, Hakett was the buffalo Bills QC coach 2008-2009.
Rob's House Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 I'm curious how many of the Hackett scapegoaters have actually watched the all-22 for the majority of his games. I'm guessing not many. I'd also bet there's a high correlation between them and those who think the read option is a handoff up the middle.
Mark80 Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 I can very accurately estimate the post counts of OPs by thread titles these days. This is becoming extremely tiresome.
MDH Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 It's interesting to me how a lot of people want to put the majority of the Bills' struggles on EJ yet nobody is concerned with Orton's 8-30something record in his last 40 or so games as a starter. If the majority of the blame goes to EJ for the losses then why are all those losses that Orton piled up as a started not mostly his fault? You can't have it both ways. To top it off people seem to expect Orton to somehow be better after a few years of getting very little actual game experience. Not sure how a lack of playing time makes a player better but I guess we'll find out. I really think for a lot of people it's "anything but EJ." I hope it works out for the Bills and EJ can sit and learn on the sidelines while Orton leads the Bills to the postseason but I have serious doubts that this is going to turn out well.
Best Player Available Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 It's interesting to me how a lot of people want to put the majority of the Bills' struggles on EJ yet nobody is concerned with Orton's 8-30something record in his last 40 or so games as a starter. If the majority of the blame goes to EJ for the losses then why are all those losses that Orton piled up as a started not mostly his fault? You can't have it both ways. To top it off people seem to expect Orton to somehow be better after a few years of getting very little actual game experience. Not sure how a lack of playing time makes a player better but I guess we'll find out. I really think for a lot of people it's "anything but EJ." I hope it works out for the Bills and EJ can sit and learn on the sidelines while Orton leads the Bills to the postseason but I have serious doubts that this is going to turn out well. Anyone thinking Orton is the next Jim Plunkett is in for a surprise. I hope he can win some games the least of which on Sunday 10/12/14.
rfk Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 Did Hackett Draft EJ...Did Hackett name him starter? His job was to polish a turd. Let's see what happens next. The plays don't matter ifin you caint execute dem.
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