bleujob Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 Good research here - worth reading. http://www.trendingb...-manuel-a-bust/ Thanks for the article. It's a great read.
3putt Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 Another article of similar theme: SB Nation NFL @SBNationNFL 11m11 minutes ago EJ Manuel got a quick hook, but all hope is not lost: http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/10/3/ This article makes little to no sense. It assumes that EJwill make no starts over the next 2 1/2 years. If they looked at all QB's who started 14 games of their first 20 then I can see where it is going. The other article takes that approach. Personally, Orton will not be under center here next year. If he does well he can opt out before the Superbowl and up his salary. If he gets hurt or sucks, well then another veteran will be here and he and EJ will compete along with anyone acquired in the draft. There is a possibility EJ will start more games for the Bills. Remote, but possible.
SouthernMan Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 One glaring omission from the statistics - wins and losses - the only stat that really matters
mountainwampus Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 EJ doesn't bother me anymore. The only reason I thought he was a bust up to this point was because of Marrone and Whaley being in complete denial about his prospects. Now EJ is where he belongs, the bench. The coaches don't seem as clueless. Sure, he underperformed what you would expect out of a 1st rounder but we can just pretend Kiko was our 1st rounder, and it's all good. EJ succeeding as a career back-up is not far fetched. Now my concern is whether or not Sammy is the bust (not that he's been BAD, but only the very best players should cost that much.)
Bill from NYC Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 I changed my mind. EJ doesn't wait too long to run, leads his receivers, and doesn't miss throws by a city block. He is great.
Dorkington Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 The averages are a bit tricky, since he rounds up and down, but the totals at the end are spot on. Anyways, it's all about expectations. Luck, RG3 and Wilson came into the league shortly before EJ and changed our expectations of a rookie QB. The expectation for EJ was to be better than Fitz, and to take the Bills to the playoffs. Neither happened within his first 14 games, so he's labeled a bust. He's still on the team, he still has time to get better, so maybe he won't be a bust in the future, but for now, he's a bust, simply because he hasn't lived up to (possibly unrealistic) expectations. Being a bust or not isn't just the player's performance, but also the expectations of the player. Two players can have the same performance, but if one player was expected to be a pro-bowler, and the other was expected to be a bench warmer, one will be considered a bust, and the other a surprise.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 Has anything changed where he doesn't suck? No. Is he still on this team? Yes. Are there still fans of EJ's that backed other failures like JP, RJ, Trent and pining for EJ to hopefully get it when he clearly wont? Yes. Therefore the "EJ sucks" threads will continue until he is gone Or til he doesn't. A number of fans were ready to run a guy wearing #12 out of town in 1987 as a bust or keep him on the bench behind Reich in 1989... Guess no ones crystal ball is perfect.
OldTimer1960 Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 Or til he doesn't. A number of fans were ready to run a guy wearing #12 out of town in 1987 as a bust or keep him on the bench behind Reich in 1989... Guess no ones crystal ball is perfect. Or til he doesn't. A number of fans were ready to run a guy wearing #12 out of town in 1987 as a bust or keep him on the bench behind Reich in 1989... Guess no ones crystal ball is perfect. Thank you. Why rush to judgement and write him off so early? So bitter people can say they were right? Some other. Bills who people wanted to run out of town include: Aaron Williams and Leodis McKelvin from the current team, Eric Moulds - one of the best WRs they ever had, Pat Williams barely played for his first few years, Steve Tasker had been cut before he got here....
Big Blitz Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 Here's the problem---I only read the article and not the comments so if it was mentioned. ...oh well. ..I'll say it again....but this is where in football the numbers cannot tell the whole story. I think EJ's % and rating are inflated due to countless designed throws to CJ and Fred. Who also helped his yardage by turning those into 10-20 yd gains. The disturbing eye test with EJ is his refusal and inability to throw the ball down field with any consistency or accuracy.. Now maybe (likely) his struggles are bc he was thrown in too soon. It doesn't matter bc the right move is being made now. Ideally, this should be his year 2 behind a competent starter. I'm hopeful over time EJ can get it....we'll see.
thebandit27 Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 One glaring omission from the statistics - wins and losses - the only stat that really matters He is 6-8 as a starter; Peyton Manning was 3-13 his rookie year. What does that mean? Only that you may want to re-think evaluating purely based on wins/losses for QBs that are in the very early stages of their careers. I changed my mind. EJ doesn't wait too long to run, leads his receivers, and doesn't miss throws by a city block. He is great. The point of the article was context, Bill. Nobody said that the deficiencies that EJ has aren't real.
Koufax Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 A very interesting article which highlights that it is too soon to cast aside EJ as a bust based on statistics. What alarms me is the actual in game decision making and accuracy leading to these numbers. These are two areas he needs to improve significantly to be effective. It isn't that he needs to have done more so far or that early struggles doom a player, it is that two of the biggest traits for successful quarterbacks, the things that make Montana and Brady and Brees and so many others special are completely lacking so far. These are two qualities that most of the biggest busts lacked. I can't speak to each of the guys in the list and how each one displayed these two qualities during their first 20 games and subsequently. Decision making can evolve, but I think it is easier to be too aggressive and rein things in than to start passive and add daring. I think EJ gets this and has indicated that it is a change he wants to make when he gets his next chance. I'm not sure he processes information quickly enough to be great at this from what I have seen, but I don't know enough about those progressions and EJ to really know, so I will be cautiously optimistic that he will blossom in this regard. Throwing Accuracy is a bigger concern for me. Here we are just talking about when he decides to throw a ball to a given receiver, how close he puts it to where he is trying to put it. Cutting out decision making, touch, leading a runner and other more mental choices in the throwing process, I just see too many balls that when he actually throws don't go where he wanted them to. This is a bigger danger he just has to fix. I'm hoping it is also a question of experience and aggressiveness, and that when he finds a more aggressive rhythm he will find some increased accuracy, rather than just being a pitcher who can't throw strikes.
YoloinOhio Posted October 3, 2014 Author Posted October 3, 2014 I changed my mind. EJ doesn't wait too long to run, leads his receivers, and doesn't miss throws by a city block. He is great. im not sure if you are mocking the author of the article, or a poster. But nowhere does it say he is great in the article.
BuffaloBill Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 Missing in the article or so called analysis is what was the situation with the team around those QB's. The Bills have talent right now, enough to win at every position with maybe the exception QB (we will have to see what Orton brings). It is too early to call EJ a bust but at the same time he likely gets one more shot to prove he is not.
thebandit27 Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 Missing in the article or so called analysis is what was the situation with the team around those QB's. The Bills have talent right now, enough to win at every position with maybe the exception QB (we will have to see what Orton brings). It is too early to call EJ a bust but at the same time he likely gets one more shot to prove he is not. I think it was sort of hinted at when he mentioned that EJ was benched for a veteran and that it made sense (or something to that effect) at the end of the article.
The Wiz Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 Here's the problem---I only read the article and not the comments so if it was mentioned. ...oh well. ..I'll say it again....but this is where in football the numbers cannot tell the whole story. I think EJ's % and rating are inflated due to countless designed throws to CJ and Fred. Who also helped his yardage by turning those into 10-20 yd gains. The disturbing eye test with EJ is his refusal and inability to throw the ball down field with any consistency or accuracy.. Now maybe (likely) his struggles are bc he was thrown in too soon. It doesn't matter bc the right move is being made now. Ideally, this should be his year 2 behind a competent starter. I'm hopeful over time EJ can get it....we'll see. I understand your point but it's not like none of the other qb's didn't do this either. Edgerrin James averaged almost 10 yards per reception in Mannings first 2 years.
kickedface Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 we don't believe in stats here. we grab pitch forks and torches
Captain Hindsight Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 It was tough to defend his play after last weeks game. I'm still a fan and hope he gets another shot. Ideally he wins the job outright in camp next year and the time off does him some good. Maybe he will just be a decent backup for a few years or maybe they cut him tomorrow. Just win baby
Maddog69 Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 Missing in the article or so called analysis is what was the situation with the team around those QB's. The Bills have talent right now, enough to win at every position with maybe the exception QB (we will have to see what Orton brings). It is too early to call EJ a bust but at the same time he likely gets one more shot to prove he is not. not sure I would say QB is the only position that's a question mark. Our OL has been sub par at best, we have no real TE and our LB's are still a big question mark especially in pass coverage.
peterpan Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 I think this article proves that stats can be misleading, as they are in this case. Anyone who watches teh actually games notices the difference between EJs game and the good QBs who have stuck.
Dragonborn10 Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 I hope I am wrong and Orton takes the team to the playoffs much like Brad Johnson did for the Bucs. I say it is more likely Manuel is starting later this year.
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