birdog1960 Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) I took a little break from PPP and see that in my absence birddog has found ways to embarrass himself even more. Linking an article which dismisses Ayn Rand economic views because the characters weren't compelling enough and the prose not as beautiful as Dostoevsky. Great work. the argument against my position for not reading the book is only valid if i have misinterpreted the messages. so tell me where i have. honestly, if teenage boys can understand it, i think i'm capable. but i can see its appeal to teenage boys. the criticism is primarily about her themes (which are quite simple) although apparently the quality of her writing is an issue to some. it's not to me. i won't be reading her works. Edited October 3, 2014 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 it's not disingeuous to point out the hypocrisy. medicare recipients get much more out on average than they put in. while it's unsustainable in the long term, that's the way it is. but railing against it while simutaneously benefitting is disingenuous. it isn't hypocrisy. just as with income taxes, people are compelled to pay into it whether they choose to or not, yet the feds sell the notion of medicare and social security as if they're individual benefits, not some kind of welfare. also, I would point out that with nearly every form of federal assistance, the recipient receives more than they pay in, if they pay anything into it at all. if you can see how unsustainable social security or medicare are as structured, why do you not see that same problem with all government assistance programs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 it isn't hypocrisy. just as with income taxes, people are compelled to pay into it whether they choose to or not, yet the feds sell the notion of medicare and social security as if they're individual benefits, not some kind of welfare. also, I would point out that with nearly every form of federal assistance, the recipient receives more than they pay in, if they pay anything into it at all. if you can see how unsustainable social security or medicare are as structured, why do you not see that same problem with all government assistance programs? i do see problems. they need to be restructured. but to effectively do that, we must agree first that they are necessary. then begin a serious dialogue about what gets cut and what the most efficient system is and admit that rationing is necessary. you can't by an audi for the cost of a yugo. neither side is willing to do that, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) the argument against my position for not reading the book is only valid if i have misinterpreted the messages. so tell me where i have. honestly, if teenage boys can understand it, i think i'm capable. but i can see its appeal to teenage boys. the criticism is primarily about her themes (which are quite simple) although apparently the quality of her writing is an issue to some. it's not to me. i won't be reading her works. You've been told repeatedly in this thread just where your misunderstandings are and yet you persist. You declared our situation at present to be the manifestation of Randian philosophy. That statement was so profoundly wrong that I'd accuse you of trolling if it wasn't consistent with all of your other work here in PPP. Only dog14787/duckdog/Fig Newtons could continue to defend themselves at this point. Sheer obstinance. You write off all the usual suspects here as being blindly partisan but now even John Adams is taking you to task. But per usual, you're right for reasons you can't even begin to articulate, and everyone else with their reasons and logical arguments is just lying. Edited October 3, 2014 by Jauronimo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 it isn't hypocrisy. just as with income taxes, people are compelled to pay into it whether they choose to or not, yet the feds sell the notion of medicare and social security as if they're individual benefits, not some kind of welfare. also, I would point out that with nearly every form of federal assistance, the recipient receives more than they pay in, if they pay anything into it at all. if you can see how unsustainable social security or medicare are as structured, why do you not see that same problem with all government assistance programs? Then why do seniors love these program--that helps them--but hate Obamacare--which helps the poor? Hmmmmm..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Then why do seniors love these program--that helps them--but hate Obamacare--which helps the poor? Hmmmmm..... They hate it because it helps the poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 You've been told repeatedly in this thread just where your misunderstandings are and yet you persist. You declared our situation at present to be the manifestation of Randian philosophy. That statement was so profoundly wrong that I'd accuse you of trolling if it wasn't consistent with all of your other work here in PPP. Only dog14787/duckdog/Fig Newtons could continue to defend themselves at this point. Sheer obstinance. You write off all the usual suspects here as being blindly partisan but now even John Adams is taking you to task. But per usual, you're right for reasons you can't even begin to articulate, and everyone else with their reasons and logical arguments is just lying. i did not declare any such thing. read it again. i said the shared final common pathway to our current situation is selfishness. it is endemic to rand's philosophy and modern day america. They hate it because it helps the poor. no. they hate it because some of their benefits go towards helping others thus taking away benefits from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 no. they hate it because some of their benefits go towards helping others thus taking away benefits from them. Sounds reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) Sounds reasonable. then again, you seem to think rand is reasonable. this is randian thought personified. Edited October 3, 2014 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Then why do seniors love these program--that helps them--but hate Obamacare--which helps the poor? Hmmmmm..... instead of having to repeat myself, read what I posted one more time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 then again, you seem to think rand is reasonable. this is randian thought personified. And you have no idea if Rand is reasonable, or not, in any of her views as you've never read her work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 And you have no idea if Rand is reasonable, or not, in any of her views as you've never read her work. what about her themes am i misinterpreting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 what about her themes am i misinterpreting? First of all, you haven't interpreted anything. You're borrowing from John Oliver, who was intentionally obsfucating. As for the themes? You haven't even bothered to differentiate between multiple themes, because you don't know that there are multiple themes, because you haven't read the damn book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 the argument against my position for not reading the book is only valid if i have misinterpreted the messages. so tell me where i have. honestly, if teenage boys can understand it, i think i'm capable. but i can see its appeal to teenage boys. the criticism is primarily about her themes (which are quite simple) although apparently the quality of her writing is an issue to some. it's not to me. i won't be reading her works. That was Flannery O'Connor's quote I posted earlier (1960): "I hope you don’t have friends who recommend Ayn Rand to you. The fiction of Ayn Rand is as low as you can get re fiction. I hope you picked it up off the floor of the subway and threw it in the nearest garbage pail. She makes Mickey Spillane look like Dostoevsky." O'Connor knew she was dying. She knew Rand was a Godless mess who wasn't living in reality. Yet, Rand sure sold her ideals (unlike some of her contempory followers... To their credit) out when faced with her own mortality. Don't worry, you won't miss much. Rand is where rainbows & purple farting unicorns meet w/American conservatism-libertarianism. Save it for the impressionable teenage boys and other immature men young and old. Well I guess you know my opinion... It's like she never left 7th grade behind, same with many of the posters here. I see the Rand fans are striking up the band! Quite a cult. If anything made me more a liberal... It was Rand. Then why do seniors love these program--that helps them--but hate Obamacare--which helps the poor? Hmmmmm..... One of the most successful gov't public relief programs in our history: The CCC (Civilian Conservation Corps). Boy people hated it in abstract... BUT boy did they love it when it rolled through their town! SEE: Rand hypocrites. what about her themes am i misinterpreting? Don't worry, you are NOT "misinterpreting." You do realize that you are having a discussion with teenage boys? ;-P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) . Don't worry, you are NOT "misinterpreting." You do realize that you are having a discussion with teenage boys? ;-P what? you mean tasker doesn't have multiple servants and belong to happy valley or whatever club he told us? i assumed that most were not of that chronological age however. am i wrong? First of all, you haven't interpreted anything. You're borrowing from John Oliver, who was intentionally obsfucating. As for the themes? You haven't even bothered to differentiate between multiple themes, because you don't know that there are multiple themes, because you haven't read the damn book. have you read any of obama's works? Edited October 3, 2014 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 have you read any of obama's works? I've read every single the bill he's signed into law which I have been critical of, each executive order I've been critical of, and both Dreams from my Father and the Audacity of Hope, neither of which are worth commenting on. I've also read everything Karl Marx produced, Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism by Lenin, and Quotations from Chairman Mao Tse-tung. One of the key differences between you and I is that I like to inform myself before forming opinions as opposed to forming my opinions, and then submerging myself in material which only serves to reinforce them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 One of the most successful gov't public relief programs in our history: The CCC (Civilian Conservation Corps). Boy people hated it in abstract... BUT boy did they love it when it rolled through their town! SEE: Rand hypocrites. And would be popular now in the places where unemployment is high. I think one of the bad aspects of having so many super wealthy Democrats is that things like this do not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) I've read every single the bill he's signed into law which I have been critical of, each executive order I've been critical of, and both Dreams from my Father and the Audacity of Hope, neither of which are worth commenting on. I've also read everything Karl Marx produced, Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism by Lenin, and Quotations from Chairman Mao Tse-tung. One of the key differences between you and I is that I like to inform myself before forming opinions as opposed to forming my opinions, and then submerging myself in material which only serves to reinforce them. it would have been easy for me to say the same about rand's work. but even if i had read them i would be hard pressed to publicly admit it. Edited October 3, 2014 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 As if the average medicare patient doesn't get 10 times out of the government what they put in. Unless, of course, they die at 66 The vets? 95 percent are in the rear with the gear and only work 20 years? That's a deal! They should be thankful for that In any event, they are the last people that should be crying over the size of government or screaming that giving health care to the poor will destroy the country. Get a big blender and dump them in it "F" you for being the piece of schit that you are. You have no clue what being a Vet is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) And would be popular now in the places where unemployment is high. I think one of the bad aspects of having so many super wealthy Democrats is that things like this do not happen. Yes reduce unemployment with a lot of temporary "shovel ready" jobs. Brilliant. Oh and today the line for signing up for these jobs would stretch all the way around the sign up table. Edited October 3, 2014 by Chef Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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