boyst Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) there might be a hoax all right, still not sure what and who can be identified as such. jw so, it's not the o-line? jw really? it's just the o-line. really? c'mon. jw i'm not playing a game, i just question why there is need to deflect the blame, when it's becoming painfully clear that EJ's inconsistencies are his only consistency. jw there are enough questions being raised inside 1 Bills Drive to render this topic absurd. jw what i'm suggesting is however poorly the offense played in the first half on Saturday, there was a distinct lack of ownership for the troubles continuing to come from the supposed leader, whether it was post-game or in-game (when Fred Jackson huddled up the offense on the sideline to try to inspire them). there seems to be no clear accountability coming from that position, and it's raising further questions in regards to whether EJ can ever develop into a starter. jw can you loop us in on what those questions are? please? no. Edited October 2, 2014 by jboyst62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 I think I understand your point about Watkins' statements, but at the same time, I don't think he intended it as a "dig" at EJ, but more an observation about what has changed...now certainly, we all read it as a criticism, but I don't think his intent was malicious, just not careful about choosing his words to indicate the difference between the two....also agreed though, that media interviews take some savvy and realize you're not at Clemson anymore, all of your words are amplified, and that takes time, IMO... Quite true indeed. And while the spirit of his comments has since been significantly muffled by context, larger context also includes the body language from him and Woods during the Houston game. I think there is some validity to them being downright cranky about the QB, and knowing this, his comments were a window in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrod's Tailor Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 So JW was on his job, as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B. in VA Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Criticism of EJ is not by itself an incendiary thing - if the ball is coming out faster and Orton makes the reads faster, why shouldn't Sammy say so? EJ was clearly benched for performance issues, so maybe hearing what they are from the WR perspective will light a fire under him to sort it out - or at least underline than he can learn something from Orton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 This was in the "We have an O-line problem, not a QB problem" thread, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 I think I understand your point about Watkins' statements, but at the same time, I don't think he intended it as a "dig" at EJ, but more an observation about what has changed...now certainly, we all read it as a criticism, but I don't think his intent was malicious, just not careful about choosing his words to indicate the difference between the two....also agreed though, that media interviews take some savvy and realize you're not at Clemson anymore, all of your words are amplified, and that takes time, IMO... On the other hand, it's really just a message board thing. You kick stuff around, give you're opinion, kill some time talking about the bills. I still don't see anything that inflammatory here. On other subjects there are mean spirited attacks on players, insults, etc. I find all that pathetic. In this case, who doesn't want Sammy to be successful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Less gabbing and drops please: Kelvin Benjamin named NFL offensive rookie of month Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) One thing I'm surprised about is no one has pointed at the FItzpatrick factor in all of this. Fitz was let go in favor of the new kid in town, Kolb, and now Orton. Given what Fitz signed for in Tenn and Houston, it's probable we could have overall spent less money on him than on Kolb and Orton and certainly got more than we got out of Kolb. I had been saying this from the start, from the end of that season. It made little to no sense. The same can be said of SJ13. We have Mike Williams who has shown to be not much different then SJ13 - so next year we may spend what was it...$16mm?? more JW puh-leeze. the criticism is not at all abstract it points directly toward leadership, which is what a QB ultimately is responsible for and, in many cases, judged upon in the room. jw why do i need to explain myself? i don't post stuff here because i'm guessing. jw interesting. Rob Johnson was knocked for lacking leadership, too. jw New thread thought: "We don't have so much a QB problem as a TE problem." let's start blaming them, too. jw sure, let's. but that was not the title of this thread, which is what put me off to begin with, creating that very same "straw man" with the offensive line. it all comes back to quarterback, and the quarterback has been inconsistent at best, and a drain on the team's resources given how much they've invested in the offense already this offseason. and if Palmer is being brought in to help "tutor" Manuel, then now that development process is eating up another roster spot. last year, Manuel contributed to costing the team one or two wins by failing to get out of bounds against Cleveland. what price do the Bills pay this season if that big leap in development that many inside 1 Bills Drive (and outside it) seek fails to materialize. i haven't seen much of it. but, according to the OP, that's the O-line's problem. ... sorry, a few more things. it's not the o-line's fault when EJ persistently stares down receivers in the red zone. it's not the o-line's fault either when EJ has, on occasion, taken off and run the ball during 7-on-7 drills in practice when, in fact, there is no o-line. have there been positives? sure. but comparing this preseason with the last one, not sure if there's anything to indicate a big leap forward despite added talent and coaches around him. before camp, Doug Whaley spoke about an objective of how he wanted to see come out of camp with a better command of the offense, carrying a swagger perhaps. and yet, EJ joked last week that one of the biggest things he got out of camp was staying healthy. i guess that's a start ... but. jw oh, i was referring to his "entire" career. jw All starts mostly here: http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/170310-ej-is-the-guy-but/page__st__60#entry3232122 Edited October 2, 2014 by jboyst62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrod's Tailor Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 EJ staring down receivers in the Red Zone? That would never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Love someone to write a paper on where set these d1 scholarship athletes are today. 80 scholarships per school. Where are they? Or better yet, which Walmart, lowes. Home Depot, and target are they working at? Hold on there.. Where would they be if they didn't play collegiate sports? Not sure I get the point. It's an opportunity many of them may not have otherwise gotten at all. If they choose to do nothing with it, well then they probably at worst end up right where they were headed anyway.... Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Quite true indeed. And while the spirit of his comments has since been significantly muffled by context, larger context also includes the body language from him and Woods during the Houston game. I think there is some validity to them being downright cranky about the QB, and knowing this, his comments were a window in that. RE: body language and the larger context, also agreed which also probably makes his statements the more transparent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 I had been saying this from the start, from the end of that season. It made little to no sense. The same can be said of SJ13. We have Mike Williams who has shown to be not much different then SJ13 - so next year we may spend what was it...$16mm?? I would have liked to see Fitz stay, but remember, they did offer him a reduced contract to stay and he said no, ultimately playing for TN for the same reduced money. I understand where Fitz was coming from, but do not fault the Bills for not wanting to pay $7.5 m to Fitz either. In retrospect, perhaps they should have, but it seemed prudent to me at the time. As for Williams, I think he is a better option than Johnson, but I am at a loss to explain why he is sitting on the bench. Frankly, I think their best alignment would be with Williams on the outside and Woods in the slot as a base offense. Not sure why they are reluctant to do this. Lack of confidence in the QB? Perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Watkins play was saying enough. He didnt believe in EJ and I cant blame him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 I have an idea Sammy, you worry about getting open and CATCHING the ball and let the coaches worry about critiquing the QB position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Watkins play was saying enough. He didnt believe in EJ and I cant blame him. What part of his play? The drops, the lay ups, or the times he actually caught the ball? No one on this team (or any team, for that matter) has been perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 No way, they're STUDENT athletes there on their academic credentials and playing football as a way to pass time until they're accepted into graduate school. Just ask Leodis McKelvin, he'll clearly and eloquently explain it to you, using the Wonderlic test as an example of what student athletes can achieve given his excellent 13, putting him and his Troy education a few points below a warehouse worker. Biggest embarrassment in academics is letting these low achieved into quality school, wringing their athletic talent from them and handing them a bs degree. Love someone to write a paper on where set these d1 scholarship athletes are today. 80 scholarships per school. Where are they? Or better yet, which Walmart, lowes. Home Depot, and target are they working at? Dude, far be it from me to be the grammar police. But if you're going to indict the collegiate system and mock a Bills player while you're at it, I'd write a semi-coherent paragraph explaining your viewpoints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bocephuz Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 As a fan I love to hear that kind of inside info.. it gives us a glimpse into what's really going on. As an owner, coach or teammate I would not feel good about Sammy's comments. It doesn't really help the team move forward internally at all. I can't really imagine throwing one of my co-workers under the bus publicly and then having to work with them the next day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 As a fan I love to hear that kind of inside info.. it gives us a glimpse into what's really going on. As an owner, coach or teammate I would not feel good about Sammy's comments. It doesn't really help the team move forward internally at all. I can't really imagine throwing one of my co-workers under the bus publicly and then having to work with them the next day. This is all true. Sammy needs to be a little more Freddy here. More importantly, he should take care of his OWN business first. And he's been just as inconsistent as anyone. While I attribute that to playing at less than 100% more than anything, he hasn't yet established himself enough. I also get a kick out of the correlation between some fans' level of dissatisfaction with EJ and their level of acceptance for Watkins' admissions. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) This is all true. Sammy needs to be a little more Freddy here. More importantly, he should take care of his OWN business first. And he's been just as inconsistent as anyone. While I attribute that to playing at less than 100% more than anything, he hasn't yet established himself enough. I also get a kick out of the correlation between some fans' level of dissatisfaction with EJ and their level of acceptance for Watkins' admissions. GO BILLS!!! This, all of it. Sammy, of course, has been playing with injuries and those are in no small part due to his QB and his struggles. But that said, until he's not EJ's teammate, the only focus should be on what's going to help EJ get better. Everyone is one crushing Suh sack away from playing with the guy again. Then what? Complain? Or go to work? I know what Freddy will be doing. Edited October 2, 2014 by RuntheDamnBall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 As a fan I love to hear that kind of inside info.. it gives us a glimpse into what's really going on. As an owner, coach or teammate I would not feel good about Sammy's comments. It doesn't really help the team move forward internally at all. I can't really imagine throwing one of my co-workers under the bus publicly and then having to work with them the next day. this is pretty much where I am but also think it is being blown out of proportion when watching the whole interview. But while I have seen WRs take "shots" at previous QBs ( recently Brandon Lafell going from Cam to Brady, Steve smith when going from cam to Flacco, Emmanuel sanders when going from Ben to Peyton) they usually don't do it while they are still on the same team. That said, I really don't know if he intended it as criticism so I'll gve him the benefit of the doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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