NYCBoozers Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 These WRs have taken hits before. I believe their frustration is "do we have to take blind sided hits on every darn throw" ... It makes our back-and-forth bickering about benching EJ a moot point. I'm not sure Marrone had a choice. His frustration, WR's frustration ... etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Does "over the middle to Andre Reed" jog anyone's memory? I can understand a receiver's frustration with off-target throws. But catching the ball and getting hit immediately is part of the WR job description, as is trying to get YAC. I really don't think WR should be deciding which balls they will or won't bother to try to catch. There's a difference between getting hit catching a pass vs. getting killed on a covered dump off when there's 10 seconds left in the half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I have been noticing the "Robert Woods body language" with EJ since the first pre-season game. Woods is a tough guy...be plays with a lot of fire...go back and look at some his USC tapes. I wouldn't be at all surprised if this "attitude" was at the center of whatever issues Marrone had with Woods in camp. When the Bills finally turn things around (they will), I think Robert Woods will be a big part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 When Watkins declined to expose his body to a brutal hit to reach for an off-target EJ pass for minimal gain, people gave him grief. Woods went ahead with the catch this time, got clobbered, and actually hurt the Bills because the completion kept the clock running. These guys all want to be successful. They think, correctly, it's their job to run the correct route, get separation, and catch the ball. But time and again, no matter how well they do their job, the ball isn't where it needs to be. This isn't college, where a superior athlete WR can dominate college-level DBs and where a QB has a much wider space-time volume to hit. This is the NFL where most times the ball has to travel through a very narrow range vertically to get over LBs and then down, and get to a nearly exact spot, at nearly the exact right time. It's amazing really to see a professional QB achieve that level of accuracy, and then to be so good that people assume he'll do it right over and over. Yet, that's the job, fella, and if you can't do it your WRs are entitled to get frustrated. Not that they should act out and embarrass their QB publicly, but they do need to get the point across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Oh no, a professional athletes in full pads had to take a hit. Get over it. Right, No WR has ever been drilled by a DB in this league.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 This specific play was covered in Jeremy White's All-22 report... The fact that EJ threw the pass at all concerning the coverage and the situation is bad enough...The fact that both Texans Defenders (and you can see it even better on White's report) seemed to anticipate the short pass there when Sammy was running a longer out-route on the same side and seemed to be in a position where he would not only be open, but he could get out-of-bounds, was possibly even more disturbing...Not only did EJ make the wrong read and throw it to the wrong guy, but the Defense seemed to know he would do just that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaninATL Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 Does "over the middle to Andre Reed" jog anyone's memory? I can understand a receiver's frustration with off-target throws. But catching the ball and getting hit immediately is part of the WR job description, as is trying to get YAC. I really don't think WR should be deciding which balls they will or won't bother to try to catch. that is such a red herring it is laughable...how about Reed over the middle getting hit in stride by an accurate throw from JK? The issue is not a WR being unwilling to get hit, it is justifiable frustration with a QB who can't make routine throws and, even worse., is putting his WRs in awful positions to get blown up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 the WR body language was just the tip of the mutiny iceberg forming against EJ. it runs deep and started early this year with the vote of captains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaninATL Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 When Watkins declined to expose his body to a brutal hit to reach for an off-target EJ pass for minimal gain, people gave him grief. Woods went ahead with the catch this time, got clobbered, and actually hurt the Bills because the completion kept the clock running. These guys all want to be successful. They think, correctly, it's their job to run the correct route, get separation, and catch the ball. But time and again, no matter how well they do their job, the ball isn't where it needs to be. This isn't college, where a superior athlete WR can dominate college-level DBs and where a QB has a much wider space-time volume to hit. This is the NFL where most times the ball has to travel through a very narrow range vertically to get over LBs and then down, and get to a nearly exact spot, at nearly the exact right time. It's amazing really to see a professional QB achieve that level of accuracy, and then to be so good that people assume he'll do it right over and over. Yet, that's the job, fella, and if you can't do it your WRs are entitled to get frustrated. Not that they should act out and embarrass their QB publicly, but they do need to get the point across. BINGO, you nailed it Utah ! I'm in Tallahassee and had to suffer through watching him at FSU. It is about two games late in benching him. I think Marrone final saw the rebellion he was going to have if he didn't bench him. K9, I'd really appreciate getting your insight on EJ's playing days @ FSU.......as a (mainly) SEC fan, I did not see him much at all. Does the EJ we are seeing now resemble the EJ you saw @ FSU? Can you elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 There were a few times this season where EJ threw his WRs into big hits. Football is a sport for warriors. The lily-livered shouldn't don a uniform and run onto the field of play. Then again, QBs shouldn't get their wideouts needlessly killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) Great post Utah. I remember before the season started, hearing Steve Tasker saying something along the lines of "the bickering Bills" of 1989 played a huge role in the success the team had in the early 90's. Tasker was wondering if the Bills had anyone on the roster who was willing to stand up and call guys out if they weren't performing the way they should. Tasker said those Bills teams were chocked full of guys like that. He said that being challenged by your teammates is a lot different than being challenged by a coach. Maybe, just maybe, Woods is emerging as a young leader... Edited October 1, 2014 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I love the idea of the players holding themselves accountable. Now all we need is the next Jim Kelly, because even with accountability, you need a QB. Let's hope Orton is enough for now! And I'm not giving up all hope with EJ, but this team is too talented... Blah, blah, blah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flmike Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I saw EJ his whole college career. Every game... Inconsistent is the best word. He succeeded when he burned teams by running. Covered a lot of ground in a hurry. Kept them honest and let him throw a few passes to some really good receivers (Hello, Mr Benjamin!). The Bills messed this kid up and now they are paying for it. They didn't use him for what he does best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Beard Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 When Watkins declined to expose his body to a brutal hit to reach for an off-target EJ pass for minimal gain, people gave him grief. Woods went ahead with the catch this time, got clobbered, and actually hurt the Bills because the completion kept the clock running. These guys all want to be successful. They think, correctly, it's their job to run the correct route, get separation, and catch the ball. But time and again, no matter how well they do their job, the ball isn't where it needs to be. This isn't college, where a superior athlete WR can dominate college-level DBs and where a QB has a much wider space-time volume to hit. This is the NFL where most times the ball has to travel through a very narrow range vertically to get over LBs and then down, and get to a nearly exact spot, at nearly the exact right time. It's amazing really to see a professional QB achieve that level of accuracy, and then to be so good that people assume he'll do it right over and over. Yet, that's the job, fella, and if you can't do it your WRs are entitled to get frustrated. Not that they should act out and embarrass their QB publicly, but they do need to get the point across. I'm pretty sure in an earlier game (San Diego, I think) Fred purposely dropped a pass because he knew that catching the ball in bounds for minimal gain was worse than an incompletion that would stop the clock. Experience is valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 This specific play was covered in Jeremy White's All-22 report... The fact that EJ threw the pass at all concerning the coverage and the situation is bad enough...The fact that both Texans Defenders (and you can see it even better on White's report) seemed to anticipate the short pass there when Sammy was running a longer out-route on the same side and seemed to be in a position where he would not only be open, but he could get out-of-bounds, was possibly even more disturbing...Not only did EJ make the wrong read and throw it to the wrong guy, but the Defense seemed to know he would do just that... The video tape has killed a lot of Bills QB's. When you have clear deficiencies in your game they will eventually be exploited. No matter how many times we've seen it fans always seem to be oblivious to it. There was this notion that EJ was just going to naturally keep improving and we should know it's not that simple. Go back to Belichick exposing Flutie in the Meadowlands in 1998 by forcing him to throw from the pocket and every Bills QB since has been compromised not by age, injury or supporting cast but by glaring shortcomings in their own game exposed by tape. My two biggest concerns for this season were defenses reacting and gameplanning to exploit EJ's obvious lack of vertical success and the team quitting on Marrone. The first concern has been realized. Hopefully Marrone will avert the latter....because playoffs or not we have seen what happens when this team quits on it's coaches.....intermittent effort. We saw it after the Chiefs game last year and it's just hard to watch eggs like the team laid in Pitt and Tampa last year or disasters like the defensive efforts against SF and Seattle two years ago. Disgusting to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 yea that was a "dont catch it" moment all around. truly just as much a "dont throw it" one That about says it all .WRs are now gunshy. isnt trust one of the key ingredients > not just for the QB Wr relationship ? Once you lose it , it's going to be no small task to recover it. Even for Orton . Please just run the ball Nate. Line up Hairston and Lee Smith @TE , Summers at FB switching up with Boobie and just run. I more concerned about injury than the win in this game. Well almost . Does "over the middle to Andre Reed" jog anyone's memory? I can understand a receiver's frustration with off-target throws. But catching the ball and getting hit immediately is part of the WR job description, as is trying to get YAC. I really don't think WR should be deciding which balls they will or won't bother to try to catch. I support this message . How the hell does a Coach coach with players that make those selfish decisions while on the field ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 These WRs have taken hits before. I believe their frustration is "do we have to take blind sided hits on every darn throw" ... It makes our back-and-forth bickering about benching EJ a moot point. I'm not sure Marrone had a choice. His frustration, WR's frustration ... etc. I was at Charlie Frye's last Browns game and the reactions of the WRs were basically the same, but worse. On one of his last plays before Frye was benched I watched him miss a read for a wide open Joe Jurivicious. Then I watched JJ stand, looking back at Frye, with his hands on his hips. Just staring at him. There were many similar reactions by the other players that game and when Frye got benched I turned to my friend and said "He'll never take another snap for the Browns again. Never." He was released a day or two later. EJ isn't as bad a Frye and the reactions of the recievers are not as severe (although they are similar in nature) so he isn't a dead man walking. But he's close here in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kkspike Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Goodwin was injured in Wednesday practice not in the game Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Not to mention that if you look at the video it appears that both Fredex and Chandler are open for easy first downs with some extra yardage to be gained. In fact, as i watch it a few more times, Fred is completely uncovered as the safety (?, can't tell as the video is rather fast) completely sells out on the flat route BEFORE the ball is thrown....mostly because EJ is staring down that route. this is most plays guys open and the ball doesnt come out - I don't think as a fan base we understand how this offense would move IF we could get descent quarterbacking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bob Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 It all started in the preseason when EJ threw Watkins into a set of bruised ribs. Two weeks later when Watkins returned to action, EJ almost got him killed again on the first drive of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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