GG Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 My theory is that they had a built in excuse for failure. At best, it would work and they would win games. At worst, the QBs would fail and it would be because they suck and that they're backups. Wins = great gameplan and gutsy moves by coaching staff Losses = not the coaches' fault that the QBs sucked; after all, they're just backups. It's not as easy to just let it fly when your rookie starter is in there. I don't buy that. A lot of play calls gave EJ makeable options, with open receivers. For whatever reason, he never got into that rhythm. His only successes last year came in spurts of some runs and passes, mixed in with head scratchers, but I don't know if there were really consistent drives. As Dave pointed out, he's only thrown two TD passes into the end zone in the last year. But when Tuel came in to the KC game, and Lewis afterward, the offensive play calling was very different.
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 30, 2014 Author Posted September 30, 2014 No one yet has answered the question of why the Bills ran a grown up offense when Tuel & Lewis were starters. I don't know what you are talking about. The Bills ran for 200 yards, didn't allow an offensive td, scored one offensive td in Tuel's start. They lost single handedly because of Tuel. He went 18-39 (46%) for 229 yards (4 ypa) with 1 td and 2 ints. He made one throw. That's a grown up offense? Thad Lewis has essentially the #s we are benching EJ for: 5 tds, 4 ints, 81.4 QB rating. He had 2 td passes in one game and won both Miami games without throwing a td. That's a grown up offense? I don't buy that. A lot of play calls gave EJ makeable options, with open receivers. For whatever reason, he never got into that rhythm. His only successes last year came in spurts of some runs and passes, mixed in with head scratchers, but I don't know if there were really consistent drives. As Dave pointed out, he's only thrown two TD passes into the end zone in the last year. But when Tuel came in to the KC game, and Lewis afterward, the offensive play calling was very different. Tuel averaged 4 yards per pass!!! We ran for 200 yards!!! We lost without KC scoring a td!!! That's a grown up offense???
Gugny Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 I don't buy that. A lot of play calls gave EJ makeable options, with open receivers. For whatever reason, he never got into that rhythm. His only successes last year came in spurts of some runs and passes, mixed in with head scratchers, but I don't know if there were really consistent drives. As Dave pointed out, he's only thrown two TD passes into the end zone in the last year. But when Tuel came in to the KC game, and Lewis afterward, the offensive play calling was very different. Luckily for me, I wasn't looking for buy-in. You wanted an answer and I provided one. Frankly, I don't give a crap about why the offense was different with Tuel and Lewis. Furthermore, I think Hackett's offense has been effective and the only problem I have with him this year (so far) is that he is too quick to abandon the run (especially last Sunday).
Kelly the Dog Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 They're the exceptions that prove the rule. I often feel obligated to point out that if there was an exception to every rule there would be an exception that rule and there would one rule without an exception unless the one rule without an exception was the rule that says there is an exception to every rule. Just sayin'.
FireChan Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 I don't know what you are talking about. The Bills ran for 200 yards, didn't allow an offensive td, scored one offensive td in Tuel's start. They lost single handedly because of Tuel. He went 18-39 (46%) for 229 yards (4 ypa) with 1 td and 2 ints. He made one throw. That's a grown up offense? Thad Lewis has essentially the #s we are benching EJ for: 5 tds, 4 ints, 81.4 QB rating. He had 2 td passes in one game and won both Miami games without throwing a td. That's a grown up offense? Tuel averaged 4 yards per pass!!! We ran for 200 yards!!! We lost without KC scoring a td!!! That's a grown up offense??? We all know fumbles are results of offensive playcalling.
GG Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 I don't know what you are talking about. The Bills ran for 200 yards, didn't allow an offensive td, scored one offensive td in Tuel's start. They lost single handedly because of Tuel. He went 18-39 (46%) for 229 yards (4 ypa) with 1 td and 2 ints. He made one throw. That's a grown up offense? Thad Lewis has essentially the #s we are benching EJ for: 5 tds, 4 ints, 81.4 QB rating. He had 2 td passes in one game and won both Miami games without throwing a td. That's a grown up offense? I'm not talking about their stats. There's a reason they're not on NFL rosters. I'm talking about about the difference in the types of plays they ran vs the plays that EJ ran. Hackett still had the modified playbook for EJ, I guess similar to what Jimbo had for him. Maybe Hacket & Marrone realized that they can't compete in the NFL with a pop gun offense?
Kelly the Dog Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 I'm not talking about their stats. There's a reason they're not on NFL rosters. I'm talking about about the difference in the types of plays they ran vs the plays that EJ ran. Hackett still had the modified playbook for EJ, I guess similar to what Jimbo had for him. Maybe Hacket & Marrone realized that they can't compete in the NFL with a pop gun offense? This isn't directed at you, but people love to B word so much that they are saying that there were dozens of plays to be made for EJ and all he had to do was be an average QB and be accurate and we would be rolling up points and wins. Oh, and the play calling sucks and the OC needs to be fired. Those two things cannot co-exist. Haters gonna hate.
GG Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 This isn't directed at you, but people love to B word so much that they are saying that there were dozens of plays to be made for EJ and all he had to do was be an average QB and be accurate and we would be rolling up points and wins. Oh, and the play calling sucks and the OC needs to be fired. Those two things cannot co-exist. Haters gonna hate. Hopefully it's not the same person saying that. Luckily for me, I wasn't looking for buy-in. You wanted an answer and I provided one. Frankly, I don't give a crap about why the offense was different with Tuel and Lewis. It matters a lot in a discussion of an apparently bad OC. If he was as bad and unimaginative as people think, you wouldn't have the variation on the game plan due to a QB switch.
Kelly the Dog Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 Hopefully it's not the same person saying that. Oh it is.
FireChan Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 Oh it is. It usually is. Gotta blame somebody.
Direhard Fan Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 Marrone had to do something. New owner and a short leash. If they blunder thru the rest of the season like in Houstan they are all gone.. a so so QB could have won sunday. EJ ran scared all day and missed open recievers the entire game. Until we beat 8 men in the box we will get killed. Time for a change.
Orton's Arm Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 No one yet has answered the question of why the Bills ran a grown up offense when Tuel & Lewis were starters. Manuel was a one read college QB who ran a simplified offense. More often than not, guys like that don't "grow into" the complexity of a real NFL offense, no matter how much time you give them. It was becoming increasingly obvious that Manuel wasn't going to be an exception to that general rule.
Gugny Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 Hopefully it's not the same person saying that. It matters a lot in a discussion of an apparently bad OC. If he was as bad and unimaginative as people think, you wouldn't have the variation on the game plan due to a QB switch. Ahh, I gotcha. I like Hackett and think he's becoming a very good OC, personally.
Kelly the Dog Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 It usually is. Gotta blame somebody. I understand the concept of gotta blame somebody. It's idiotic to blame two people at same time by saying 1) there are all kinds of open receives and plays to be made on the field for the QB, cut him! and simultaneously say 2) the OC can't call or design plays, fire him!
FireChan Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 (edited) I understand the concept of gotta blame somebody. It's idiotic to blame two people at same time by saying 1) there are all kinds of open receives and plays to be made on the field for the QB, cut him! and simultaneously say 2) the OC can't call or design plays, fire him! Totally agree. Personally, I thought Hackett has showed the most improvement out of anyone this year compared to last year. His gameplans were varied, he had some rubs that got Sammy open multiple times, he schemed and totally eliminated Wake as a factor. People love to bash him for the lack of screens, but the offensive line have not blocked a single person on a screen play this year. Spiller is playing better than last season. He has gotten players open. It's not him. Blaming Hackett is the low-hanging fruit of complaints this year, because you can blame everything on him when a play doesn't work because of the lack of execution. The locker room was ready to quit on EJ. Not Hackett. That speaks volumes as to who was the real issue. Edited September 30, 2014 by FireChan
Orton's Arm Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 I understand the concept of gotta blame somebody. It's idiotic to blame two people at same time by saying 1) there are all kinds of open receives and plays to be made on the field for the QB, cut him! and simultaneously say 2) the OC can't call or design plays, fire him! It's possible for a team to have an incompetent QB and an incompetent offensive coordinator at the same time. Having one of those things does not preclude having the other. We know that Manuel is an incompetent QB--at least at the moment--based on the inaccuracy of his throws and his apparent inability to see open targets. (Nor does his college tape suggest he has a much higher ceiling than what we've seen thus far.) Putting a credible replacement in lets us better evaluate the offensive coordinator (among others). Houston ganged up on the run and dared the Bills to beat them with the pass. That can (and in this case did) result in open targets--especially for a team with as much receiving talent as Buffalo. Granted, all those open targets reflect well on Hackett; as you hinted at in your post. But before putting the anointing oil on Hackett, let's first see how well he does at generating open targets against a team which knows it has to respect the Bills' passing attack; and which has a decent secondary.
Bronc24 Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 I want him fired for bailing on the guy he selected after less than 16 starts. Why should we ever trust him to draft and develop a qb again? Unbelievable. Even my wife, who knows nothing about football, commented on how inaccurate EJ looked. The talent is there, we need someone to get our studs the ball. EJ isn't the guy. Period.
Kelly the Dog Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 It's possible for a team to have an incompetent QB and an incompetent offensive coordinator at the same time. Having one of those things does not preclude having the other. Of course it is. It's ignorant to complain the plays were wide open all over the field and still complain he can't call or design plays. True, we don't know if Hackett is good or not yet. But you can't say fire him because he sucks and say cut EJ because guys are wide open all over, just throw the damn ball. It's bitching just to B word, or just plain stupid.
Bronc24 Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 Of course it is. It's ignorant to complain the plays were wide open all over the field and still complain he can't call or design plays. True, we don't know if Hackett is good or not yet. But you can't say fire him because he sucks and say cut EJ because guys are wide open all over, just throw the damn ball. It's bitching just to B word, or just plain stupid. +1.
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