Why I think Marrone should be fired...

[jester43]

I'm probably too optimist about this team.

lol...yeah probably. cbiscuit, refresh my memory...aren't you one of the guys who's always piling on the media around here for being too mean?

 

first you don't have to "call for" marrone to go if they don't make the playoffs...he will of course be gone if they don't, no matter who the qb is.

 

(unless terry "what-has-he-done-wrong" pegula is even more batshcidt crazy than i think he is, which is possible.)

 

but if you are looking for heads to roll, it should be for not having a better option at back-up ready when the season started. they sign orton after the pre-season's over and now they're starting him? did they not see EJ at all last year? how in the world did they not see until now that they needed another good QB? it is mind boggling.

 

the only real question is WHO is responsible for this fiasco...it's not totally clear, whether it was Whaley who insisted EJ not be provided any competition or Marrone. Or maybe they both wanted it that way, in which case they should both go. I am not convinced Russ Brandon wasn't involved, as I think he is still way more involved in personnel than people think. And really, what Whaley supposed to do about that? Tell his boss to buzz off?

 

Thank god Marrone had the balls to recognize the obvious: They reached badly for this guy and he's getting them beat. The bills would be 4-0 right now with any one of at least 20 other QBs on the roster (there are at least 2 dozen guys I'd rather have) and if you don't want to lose the locker room you can't ignore that.

 

you watch these guys play their asses off and go win in detroit now.

Edited September 30, 2014 by jester43

[John Cocktosten]

[dave mcbride]

 

 

I just see this as Kelly Holcomb all over again. And I think EJ has more potential than JP. Mularkey got fired and then the Bills actually got a decent season out of JP.

 

EJ certainly has a lot of blame to shoulder. But a lot of this offense has regressed since Gailey left. The oline. Stevie Johnson looks like the guy he was under Gailey and not what he was last year in SF. Spiller was one of he best weapons in the NFL under Chan.

 

Why is it not crazy to think that maybe coaching is holding this team back?

Why does he have more potential than Losman? Losman had a better arm and threw a far nicer deep ball. Plus he was reasonably mobile. Manuel certainly has a good arm too, but it's not Losman's. They both completely suck for other reasons, of course.

[GunnerBill]

I think Hackett is as big a problem as EJ I really do. I think we can be competitive in this weak division this year.... I don't think it is beyond the realms of possibility we win the division with a level of QB play we got from EJ in weeks 1 and 2. We wouldn't win a game with the elvel we got in weeks 3 and 4, but if Orton can give us week 1 and 2 like production that might be good enough. But I'd be surprised if this team can go any better than that with Hackett as offensive co-ordinator. Marrone I have no real problem with - I think he is single minded and determined and has a plan... but his loyalty to Hackett may be his undoing.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Your love for EJ is unbelievable. Fire an HC for benching him after a horrific game? Good god Biscuit, get it together.

 

CJ stinks. SJ13 had 3 good years with Fitz because he was the only NFL WR on the team those years.

 

You may have more respect going 4-12 with EJ, but I have more respect for Marrone being a man, saying EJ isn't playing well enough, and having the stones to make a change, when he knows it's going to be a media firestorm.

 

ALSO

 

Norv Turner stinks. Like really bad. Ruined a Chargers team that had the most talent on both sides of the ball for 3 years. Shanny has sucked ever since he had a QB not named Elway. Morhinweg actively lost the Jets a game by calling a stupid timeout that he actually couldn't even do.

 

Hackett's greatest fault is what? Getting open receivers that the QB can't hit?

Come on. You need to get a grip.

Bailing at 2-2 and tied for first seems way too early for me. What if Orton plays like Orton? When do you go back to EJ?

Lets wait until we are completely out of it to make the move. What a joke.

This is my nomination for the worst thread of 2014. I've had previous nominations, but I'm changing my answer.

Seconded.

They were in first with EJ.

 

Did you see the list of proven NFL OCs other Young Qbs had? We gave EJ Hackett Jr.

They were in first with Orton too....and the midget trainer too

[billsfan1959]

I am not in the camp that has asserted from the beginning that EJ will never be an NFL QB and is now officially a bust. I am also not in the camp that has blinders on when it comes to deficiencies in his game. IMO, he has all of the physical tools necessary to be a good NFL QB and I believe there have been a number of factors that have limited his development. While I personally think that his failure to progress this season is not entirely his fault, the fact remains that he has not - in fact, it is obvious that he has regressed over the last two weeks. I think Marrone made the right move for this team at this moment.

 

I do not agree with the OP; however I understand his sentiment. I certainly am not going to ridicule his opinion. I feel bad for EJ because I do think there have been extenuating circumstances regarding his development - and, personally, I find a real lack of decency in those few posters who seem to take real joy in his failure because of their overwhelming need to show everyone else how smart they are.

 

I have no idea how Orton will do. I think there are real concerns about this offense outside of the QB position. Perhaps his skill set will be better suited to overcome them. As I did with EJ, I wish him the best.

[peterpan]

I want him fired for bailing on the guy he selected after less than 16 starts.

 

Why should we ever trust him to draft and develop a qb again?

 

I dont think 'he' selected him however, the fact that Marrone can admit when a QB stinks, and move one, is SOOOOO REFRESHING. I'm sick and tired of watching Losman Trent Holcomb etc get 2-3 times as many starts as they deserved.

 

The ONLY thing EJ has done to deserve a starting spot is get drafted in the 1st round - and even then I think the Bills are the only team in the NFL stupid enough to take him that early. There is absolutely NO reason to leave EJ in there. None.

[maddenboy]

I want him fired for bailing on the guy he selected after less than 16 starts.

 

 

Where is it written that a QB, or any player, gets X amount of time to develop?

 

(I have said in other posts on this topic that) This is NOT year 2 of a 3 year plan. This is year 1 of a 1 year plan.

 

Marrone has a responsibility to all 53 guys. To Win Now. Period. If a guy is holding that plan back, then that guy needs to be put aside for the next man up.

[peterpan]

he [EJ] has all of the physical tools necessary to be a good NFL QB and I believe there have been a number of factors that have limited his development.

 

Why do people always say this? EJ has terrible footwork, a timid and jerky throwing motion, and horrific accuracy. Are those not 'physical tools'???

 

Or do you just mean he is big and tall? Well there are lots of big and tall people that are not NFL Quarterbacks.

Edited September 30, 2014 by peterpan

[Homey D. Clown]

Your love for EJ is unbelievable. Fire an HC for benching him after a horrific game? Good god Biscuit, get it together.

 

CJ stinks. SJ13 had 3 good years with Fitz because he was the only NFL WR on the team those years.

 

You may have more respect going 4-12 with EJ, but I have more respect for Marrone being a man, saying EJ isn't playing well enough, and having the stones to make a change, when he knows it's going to be a media firestorm.

 

ALSO

 

Norv Turner stinks. Like really bad. Ruined a Chargers team that had the most talent on both sides of the ball for 3 years. Shanny has sucked ever since he had a QB not named Elway. Morhinweg actively lost the Jets a game by calling a stupid timeout that he actually couldn't even do.

 

Hackett's greatest fault is what? Getting open receivers that the QB can't hit?

 

 

I couldn't have said it better... it seems all of the EJ apologists want to blame hackett, the game plan, and every other facet of the game, when, in fact, it was EJ himself who couldn't hit the ground if he was dropped out of a plane. At one point it was so bad, he nearly got Woods killed again for the 2nd week in a row. Please with some logic how an offensive play that was called results in a poorly thrown checkdown?

[C.Biscuit97]

I dont think 'he' selected him however, the fact that Marrone can admit when a QB stinks, and move one, is SOOOOO REFRESHING. I'm sick and tired of watching Losman Trent Holcomb etc get 2-3 times as many starts as they deserved.

 

The ONLY thing EJ has done to deserve a starting spot is get drafted in the 1st round - and even then I think the Bills are the only team in the NFL stupid enough to take him that early. There is absolutely NO reason to leave EJ in there. None.

 

How is it refreshing? It's the same move the Bills have done over and over again with young QBs. They pulled Losman his 2nd year and 4th year. They pulled Trent in his 3rd year. They pull RJ early.

 

This is the definition of a Bills move. A different move would have been to stay with the QB you deemed good enough to draft in the 1st round 2 years ago. SOS.

[bananathumb]

If you were Pegula, would you keep the Syracuse boys around?

 

Soon Pegula will be feeling the pressure to upgrade this disaster of a franchise.

[berndogg]

I think Marrone should be fired because he's a professional football coach and doesn't realize that it's within the rules to run a play on fourth down. I'm pretty sure he thinks "forced to punt" is a literal term. Benching EJ, however, was definitely the right move. Can't justify keeping someone in at any age at any position when they're giving you the worst produciton in the entire league. What's gonna happen one year to the next is so hard to predict for so many reasons, you have to go with the team that gives you the best chance to win on a week to week basis. EJ has proven definitively that he does not.

[tennesseeboy]

Marrone will sinknorvswim on his win loss record. If we don't make the playoffs I can see majorvchanges so far the present group looks bad. Bad drafting, bad trading, bad negotiating bad on the field and off. I personallymthink the bills have what it takes if they getvtheircact together soon. If not i do not see the new owners letting this bunch continue.

[GG]

How is it refreshing? It's the same move the Bills have done over and over again with young QBs. They pulled Losman his 2nd year and 4th year. They pulled Trent in his 3rd year. They pull RJ early.

 

Are you arguing those weren't the right moves?

 

I think the beef should be with Bills front office & scouts being g-d awful in evaluating QB talent.

[Hazed and Amuzed]

Starting Orton is a can't lose scenario for Marrone. If Orton kills it he looks like a genius, if Orton gets killed he blames Whaley for not giving him the tools he needs to win. So he's either a Hero in Buffalo or he points fingers in his next job interview.

[BuffaloRebound]

Props to Marrone for pulling the plug on Manuel now, but if it was my job on the line, I would've been going ape-$#!% for another QB the second Kolb got hurt. If you knew that you might pull the plug this early, I don't understand why we weren't more aggressive going after QB's in the off-season, whether it be the draft or free agency. Probably could've got Bridgewater or Carr for the Kuandjio pick + the Bryce Brown pick.

[C.Biscuit97]

Why does he have more potential than Losman? Losman had a better arm and threw a far nicer deep ball. Plus he was reasonably mobile. Manuel certainly has a good arm too, but it's not Losman's. They both completely suck for other reasons, of course.

 

Through 14 games of real game action for both players:

 

Manuel - 256 for 437 (58.6%), 2,810 yards (6.4 ypa) , 16 tds, 12 ints, 3 rushing tds, 7 fumbles, 3 Game winnng drives, 6-8 record as a starter. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/ManuEJ00.htm

 

Losman - 198 for 366 (54.1%), 2,254 yards (6.2 ypa), 12 tds, 12 ints, 1 rushing td, 0 GWDs, 9 fumbles, 3-10 W-L record. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LosmJ.00/gamelog//

 

Losman also was older (he was 23 and didn't play as a rookie). He was far, far worse than EJ was. But the Bills stuck with him in his 3rd season and got better as the season progressed. I think EJ was off to a better start than Losman. That's why I wanted them to ride this out a little longer.

 

Kyle Orton completeld 51% of his passes and threw 9 tds and 13 ints through his 15 games. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/OrtoKy00.htm

 

Starting Orton is a can't lose scenario for Marrone. If Orton kills it he looks like a genius, if Orton gets killed he blames Whaley for not giving him the tools he needs to win. So he's either a Hero in Buffalo or he points fingers in his next job interview.

 

Obviously, I disagree. IF this blows up, I don't think he will ever get another head coaching job in the NFL. He pulled the plug on a 1st round QB he selected after 14 games. For a very average, more importantly, older option.

 

Are you arguing those weren't the right moves?

 

I think the beef should be with Bills front office & scouts being g-d awful in evaluating QB talent.

 

What I am arguing is why should we keep a coach who couldn't develop a QB he drafted and benched him after just 14 games. There's no way Whaley just drafted Manuel without Marrone being fully on board.

 

I couldn't have said it better... it seems all of the EJ apologists want to blame hackett, the game plan, and every other facet of the game, when, in fact, it was EJ himself who couldn't hit the ground if he was dropped out of a plane. At one point it was so bad, he nearly got Woods killed again for the 2nd week in a row. Please with some logic how an offensive play that was called results in a poorly thrown checkdown?

 

You're right. How could we ever question Nate Hackett? He was amazing in the Big East.

 

I'm sure Manuel won't have benefitted from learning under Chip Kelly, Andy Reid, Norv Turner.

[dave mcbride]

How is it refreshing? It's the same move the Bills have done over and over again with young QBs. They pulled Losman his 2nd year and 4th year. They pulled Trent in his 3rd year. They pull RJ early.

 

This is the definition of a Bills move. A different move would have been to stay with the QB you deemed good enough to draft in the 1st round 2 years ago. SOS.

Pulling RJ was absolutely the right move. Pulling Losman wasn't the wrong move either; it's just that his backup wasn't nearly as good as Flutie. Fitz proved to be better than Trent too.

 

Through 14 games of real game action for both players:

 

Manuel - 256 for 437 (58.6%), 2,810 yards (6.4 ypa) , 16 tds, 12 ints, 3 rushing tds, 7 fumbles, 3 Game winnng drives, 6-8 record as a starter. http://www.pro-footb.../M/ManuEJ00.htm

 

Losman - 198 for 366 (54.1%), 2,254 yards (6.2 ypa), 12 tds, 12 ints, 1 rushing td, 0 GWDs, 9 fumbles, 3-10 W-L record. http://www.pro-footb...mJ.00/gamelog//

 

Losman also was older (he was 23 and didn't play as a rookie). He was far, far worse than EJ was. But the Bills stuck with him in his 3rd season and got better as the season progressed. I think EJ was off to a better start than Losman. That's why I wanted them to ride this out a little longer.

 

Kyle Orton completeld 51% of his passes and threw 9 tds and 13 ints through his 15 games. http://www.pro-footb.../O/OrtoKy00.htm

 

I'm not a fan of the QB record stat at all. It is a team game. The QB is not a starting pitcher on a baseball team, for chrissake. (And I've noted how selective you are in the presentation of this stat; the Bears went 10-5 with Orton as a starter in his rookie season.) Manuel plays on a team with a far better defense than the one Losman played on (the Bills D went into the tank after 04). The talent level on this squad's offense is signficantly better than the 2005 Bills too. Regardless, they both suck, although the script on Manuel isn't written yet and he may turn the corner (I certainly hope he does). Losman never did. Losman certainly had the physical tool set that Manuel does, by the way. He had a spectacular arm. That's what I was referring to. Also, I don't know as if I've ever seen a highly touted young QB who is more inaccurate on medium-deep throws than Manuel. I'm sure there are some out there, but I didn't see them.

 

Lastly: http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr.

Edited September 30, 2014 by dave mcbride

[C.Biscuit97]

Pulling RJ was absolutely the right move. Pulling Losman wasn't the wrong move either; it's just that his backup wasn't nearly as good as Flutie. Fitz proved to be better than Trent too.

 

 

I'm not a fan of the QB record stat at all. It is a team game. The QB is not a starting pitcher on a baseball team, for chrissake. (And I've noted how selective you are in the presentation of this stat; the Bears went 10-5 with Orton as a starter in his rookie season.) Manuel plays on a team with a far better defense than the one Losman played on (the Bills D went into the tank after 04). The talent level on this squad's offense is signficantly better than the 2005 Bills too. Regardless, they both suck, although the script on Manuel isn't written yet and he may turn the corner (I certainly hope he does). Losman never did. Losman certainly had the physical tool set that Manuel does, by the way. He had a spectacular arm. That's what I was referring to. Also, I don't know as if I've ever seen a highly touted young QB who is more inaccurate on medium-deep throws than Manuel. I'm sure there are some out there, but I didn't see them.

 

I agree about W-L record for QB. But don't forget that EJ lost 2 games where he left the field with the lead (NE & ATL) and got credited for a loss in the Cleveland game where he was leading us to take the lead.

 

And my whole point is switching QBs is such a Bills type move, which haven't worked for 14 years. For once, I'd like to see the opposite. Again, I hope Orton proves me wrong. But I've seen this story too many times. And to give EJ a college OC (and it wasn't Chip Kelly or Kevin Sumlin either) was putting him behind the 8 ball to begin with.