Why I think Marrone should be fired...

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

Except the one advantage the Bills' line has is when they run block. The Texans are weak up the middle, sending your lineman back into pass protection (where they've struggled all season) against Watt and company plays into the Texans strengths and into the Bills weaknesses. I realize it's possible (and certainly valid) to use the pass to open up the run. But to go into the game thinking that way is letting the Texans dictate the game plan to the offense, when it should be the other way around.

Yeah. That's probably true. Good point.

 

[A Dog Named Kelso]

I sure as hell hope the coaches are going into this trying to win right now. That would be the proper approach whether or not they've been told their jobs hinge on a playoff spot. This is no time to be sacrificing a season with the goal of developing a QB.

^ This! I do not get the sacrifice everything to hopefully develop EJ mentality. "He is just trying to save his job", and everyone else's! If the team starts winning under Orton that is one less thing on EJ's plate if he ever comes back in, picking this this franchise out of its losing spiral. He was a project ... let that project take place behind the scenes.

 

Except the one advantage the Bills' line has is when they run block. The Texans are weak up the middle, sending your lineman back into pass protection (where they've struggled all season) against Watt and company plays into the Texans strengths and into the Bills weaknesses. I realize it's possible (and certainly valid) to use the pass to open up the run. But to go into the game thinking that way is letting the Texans dictate the game plan to the offense, when it should be the other way around.

True but they can only block so many players at once. I have a feeling if the Bills go up with a TD after that fitz pick to begin the 2nd half instead of that int they run they rest of the game.

Edited September 30, 2014 by A Dog Named Kelso

[Wayne Cubed]

 

 

Except the one advantage the Bills' line has is when they run block. The Texans are weak up the middle, sending your lineman back into pass protection (where they've struggled all season) against Watt and company plays into the Texans strengths and into the Bills weaknesses. I realize it's possible (and certainly valid) to use the pass to open up the run. But to go into the game thinking that way is letting the Texans dictate the game plan to the offense, when it should be the other way around.

 

See I think the push up front in the run game has been piss poor all season. I've seen C. Williams and Pears wiff on more than a few run blocks. I've seen Henderson miss a couple. So is it really a strength?

[C.Biscuit97]

I still can't over the fact Bridgewater got to learn under Norv Turner while EJ got Nate Hackett.

 

Ok, I'm done.

[thewildrabbit]

I think there is more to this benching then what was announced. The way I see it Whaley needs Watkins to catch more passes, and a big reason why the team is probably passing more, and running less. And another reason as to why EJ was benched, and Orton is starting. Ole Sammy needs to be right up there in stats with Kelvin.

 

Anyway, not to worry Biscuit. I think Marrone / Hackett will be gone by the end of the year. Hackett will manage to bring them both down.

[Ozymandius]

The possibility people are ignoring is that a couple weeks sitting might do EJ some good, loosen up his nerves and clear his cobwebs a bit.

 

In the scenario where Orton stinks for two or three games and EJ has to be re-inserted as a starter, there would be much less pressure on EJ, and maybe he performs better.

 

Now I'm not an EJ fan. I've thought he was a bust since last year. But if there's any chance for him to turn into a decent QB, it was not going to be starting the next game. He's just a complete wreck right now and has to get his head straight.

[Mr. WEO]

I still can't over the fact Bridgewater got to learn under Norv Turner while EJ got Nate Hackett.

 

Ok, I'm done.

 

Promise?

[tennesseeboy]

I think there is more to this benching then what was announced. The way I see it Whaley needs Watkins to catch more passes, and a big reason why the team is probably passing more, and running less. And another reason as to why EJ was benched, and Orton is starting. Ole Sammy needs to be right up there in stats with Kelvin.

 

Anyway, not to worry Biscuit. I think Marrone / Hackett will be gone by the end of the year. Hackett will manage to bring them both down.

I think Marrone is doing just fine bringing himself down as is the entire front office. Spending two first round draft picks on Watkins, letting Stevie Johnson go for a fourth round pick and the way we have played the last two games...the only way that Marrone can possibly save himself is to win the division or make the playoffs as a wild card. Put yourself in the owner's shoes....are you comfortable with the folks steering this ship?

[Kelly the Dog]

 

I think Marrone is doing just fine bringing himself down as is the entire front office. Spending two first round draft picks on Watkins, letting Stevie Johnson go for a fourth round pick and the way we have played the last two games...the only way that Marrone can possibly save himself is to win the division or make the playoffs as a wild card. Put yourself in the owner's shoes....are you comfortable with the folks steering this ship?

If I'm the owner, who is not even the owner yet, I do the only reasonable thing and watch the games and do a season end evaluation.

[Ozymandius]

Offensive coordinators matter, but not to the extent that is being endorsed in this thread. Otherwise you'd hear about coordinators making $10 mill/year.

 

Bridgewater is a talented natural passer. EJ is an athlete trying to learn how to become a QB. If Bridgewater turns out to be better, that difference explains 99% of it.

[Orton's Arm]

The possibility people are ignoring is that a couple weeks sitting might do EJ some good, loosen up his nerves and clear his cobwebs a bit.

 

In the scenario where Orton stinks for two or three games and EJ has to be re-inserted as a starter, there would be much less pressure on EJ, and maybe he performs better.

 

Now I'm not an EJ fan. I've thought he was a bust since last year. But if there's any chance for him to turn into a decent QB, it was not going to be starting the next game. He's just a complete wreck right now and has to get his head straight.

 

If things play out the way you described, the parallels between Holcomb/Losman and Orton/Manuel would be even stronger.

 

That being said, if I'm the Bills' coaching staff, I don't reinsert Manuel into the starting lineup until he shows very good accuracy in practice. If he never shows consistently good accuracy in practice, I'd never reinsert him into the starting lineup. I'd also want to see him consistently make multiple reads in practice before putting him back in as a starter.

 

If he can't learn to be accurate, or if he can't learn to make multiple reads, then I'd have no interest in giving him more playing time. At some point you have to admit the front office made a bad draft choice, and move on.

[benderbender]

This is my nomination for the worst thread of 2014. I've had previous nominations, but I'm changing my answer.

I put the I Miss Fitz at the top of the worst thread of 2014. But this one is up there nearby.

[A Dog Named Kelso]

Hackett has receivers open all over the field. Take a look:

http://www.wgr550.com/JW-All-22-Review-Bills-Texans/20015538

 

How do you look at that and say "fire Marrone"?

[Deranged Rhino]

See I think the push up front in the run game has been piss poor all season. I've seen C. Williams and Pears wiff on more than a few run blocks. I've seen Henderson miss a couple. So is it really a strength?

 

I'm not trying to argue with you, Kelso, or Kelly -- you all raise excellent points and that's what makes this such a more interesting debate than what normally goes on around here. Just want to lead with that because I know I can come across as being nit-picky or confrontational...

 

From what I've seen on the all 22s, the run blocking hasn't been as great as I expected it to be this season and they've certainly struggled in spots (especially Pears -- and I'm not even beating the dead horse anymore, he's awful). This is especially true when they try to make Pears (or even Williams/Richardson) pull to seal the edge, they've all been terrible at that and it's a big reason why CJ hasn't broken more long runs so far. So you definitely have a point there, and I have to concede it.

 

Overall though, the line was built to fire off the ball and physically dominate other teams. That's why the line is as enormous as it is, why else build a massive line if not to impose your will on the opponent? When you factor in that it was on the road, in a historically loud stadium (making pass protection shifts more difficult to call) and it was Richardson's first NFL start, it just seems logical that you'd want to run the ball early and take the crowd, and pass rushing advantage Watt and company had, out of the game.

 

Instead, by passing three straight times (4 really), they allowed Houston to get comfortable, the crowd to get loud, and Watt to get into a good groove early. Watt was going to make plays, the guy is a monster, but I'd rather have him making plays early in the run game (hopefully two or three yards down field) than the pass game. It smacked to me of Hackett trying to be too cute by passing when everyone expected them to run. Sometimes going against expectations is a great call, Kelly pointed that out with the *pats, but when you're on the road and have a young QB, a felon-in-the-making at RG and a rookie at LG... well, to me it's suspect.

 

Again, I'm coming at this from an amateur perspective and am in support of giving Hackett a real chance before rushing to judgement -- this quibble of mine is the only real time I've scratched my head in terms of Hackett. I'm also aware that I have the benefit of hindsight, but I wanted to shake him during the game.

[GG]

I'm not trying to argue with you, Kelso, or Kelly -- you all raise excellent points and that's what makes this such a more interesting debate than what normally goes on around here. Just want to lead with that because I know I can come across as being nit-picky or confrontational...

 

From what I've seen on the all 22s, the run blocking hasn't been as great as I expected it to be this season and they've certainly struggled in spots (especially Pears -- and I'm not even beating the dead horse anymore, he's awful). This is especially true when they try to make Pears (or even Williams/Richardson) pull to seal the edge, they've all been terrible at that and it's a big reason why CJ hasn't broken more long runs so far. So you definitely have a point there, and I have to concede it.

 

Overall though, the line was built to fire off the ball and physically dominate other teams. That's why the line is as enormous as it is, why else build a massive line if not to impose your will on the opponent? When you factor in that it was on the road, in a historically loud stadium (making pass protection shifts more difficult to call) and it was Richardson's first NFL start, it just seems logical that you'd want to run the ball early and take the crowd, and pass rushing advantage Watt and company had, out of the game.

 

The other school of thought is that this big, tall OL is poorly suited for the running game because the OGs can't get enough low leverage against the DTs and can't get the push. That's why Hackett never calls a running play on 3rd and greater than a yard. That's why they struggled at the goal line all preseason and have trouble picking up third and very short.

 

There's big, and there's too big & too tall.

[Deranged Rhino]

The other school of thought is that this big, tall OL is poorly suited for the running game because the OGs can't get enough low leverage against the DTs and can't get the push. That's why Hackett never calls a running play on 3rd and greater than a yard. That's why they struggled at the goal line all preseason and have trouble picking up third and very short.

 

There's big, and there's too big & too tall.

 

And then there's Pears.

[Adam]

Barring the playoffs of course.

 

This is a desperate move that is not in the best interests of the franchise. First, a quick list of young Qbs' rookie year OCs;

 

Geno smith - Marty Morteweig (former head coach, multiple NFL OC)

Andrew Luck - bruce Arians (Multiple NFL OC)

Russell Wilson - Darrell Bevel (multiple NFL OC)

Colin Kapernick - Roman (multiple NFL OC)

Teddy Bridgewater - Norv Turner (one of the best offensive coaches in the NFL)

RG3 - Shanahan family (great offensive mind)

EJ - Hackett (Syracuse OC who's dad helped he get where he is)

 

So right from the start, EJ was at a seriously disadvantage. Watching how some players regressed last year (Stevie & CJ in particular), are we sure he is good?

 

So there is the lack of a proven NFL OC which would benefit a young qb tremendously. But I think Marrone should go because he is bailing on the qb he helped selected in the 1st round after less than 16 games. He needs to be help accountable for that.

 

I'd have a lot more respect for him if he went down with the EJ ship. But instead, he is taking the "safe" route with a known mediocre at best qb.

 

I'm a Bills fan first and foremost. I'm probably too optimist about this team. It means a lot to me and I let it clog my judgement at times. But I hate this move. Anything less than the playoffs, the Bills should bail on Marrone like he bailed on EJ.

 

P.S. Kevin Sumlin would be at the top of my list. He's developed many average talents and made them superstars.

Yeah, he should go down with the bust of a ship somebody else drafted. Manuel is terrible and was a terrible draft pick.

 

Furthermore, Norv Turner had a great deal of success under Jimmy Johnson, when the Cowboys had Aikman, Irvin and Emmitt. He was very good in San Diego with Rivers, Tomlinson and Jackson. Other than that, he's been mediocre to terrible and just gotten by on reputation built on those two teams

[Wayne Cubed]

 

 

I'm not trying to argue with you, Kelso, or Kelly -- you all raise excellent points and that's what makes this such a more interesting debate than what normally goes on around here. Just want to lead with that because I know I can come across as being nit-picky or confrontational...

 

From what I've seen on the all 22s, the run blocking hasn't been as great as I expected it to be this season and they've certainly struggled in spots (especially Pears -- and I'm not even beating the dead horse anymore, he's awful). This is especially true when they try to make Pears (or even Williams/Richardson) pull to seal the edge, they've all been terrible at that and it's a big reason why CJ hasn't broken more long runs so far. So you definitely have a point there, and I have to concede it.

 

Overall though, the line was built to fire off the ball and physically dominate other teams. That's why the line is as enormous as it is, why else build a massive line if not to impose your will on the opponent? When you factor in that it was on the road, in a historically loud stadium (making pass protection shifts more difficult to call) and it was Richardson's first NFL start, it just seems logical that you'd want to run the ball early and take the crowd, and pass rushing advantage Watt and company had, out of the game.

 

Instead, by passing three straight times (4 really), they allowed Houston to get comfortable, the crowd to get loud, and Watt to get into a good groove early. Watt was going to make plays, the guy is a monster, but I'd rather have him making plays early in the run game (hopefully two or three yards down field) than the pass game. It smacked to me of Hackett trying to be too cute by passing when everyone expected them to run. Sometimes going against expectations is a great call, Kelly pointed that out with the *pats, but when you're on the road and have a young QB, a felon-in-the-making at RG and a rookie at LG... well, to me it's suspect.

 

Again, I'm coming at this from an amateur perspective and am in support of giving Hackett a real chance before rushing to judgement -- this quibble of mine is the only real time I've scratched my head in terms of Hackett. I'm also aware that I have the benefit of hindsight, but I wanted to shake him during the game.

 

Don't think you were arguing at all, it's a good debate.

 

Yea, honestly I thought they would come out running and was a bit miffed. To come out running, with what happend to both teams the previous week, would be beyond obvious. If they would have connected on a few of those early passes it could have opened up the run game which would have in turn slowed the pass rush down. If there was no threat of EJ completing passes, they were going to unleash Watt all game anyways. So why not establish or figure out if you can pass early.

 

I know they were trying to establish the run first offense but EJ needs to actually connect occasionally with receivers. That didn't happen with pressure up the middle against SD. Maybe they were just hoping if he completed some easy passes early it would go a long way for both EJ and the offense? IDK, I don't hate it, I get the play calling because it worked in a sense that guys were running wide open.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

No he's not. He stinks. He's Ryan Mallet.

 

No offense, but how do you know that, given Mallet has not exactly had a chance to play in the NFL?

[Kelly the Dog]

No offense, but how do you know that, given Mallet has not exactly had a chance to play in the NFL?

Because I am Nostradumbass.

 

Oh, and I have seen tall, statued, immobile, muttonheaded, strong-armed, sporadically accurate, highlight reel exaggerated, only decent-playing in college, wildly erratic, quarterbacks before.