Wayne Cubed Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 Of course it is. It's ignorant to complain the plays were wide open all over the field and still complain he can't call or design plays. True, we don't know if Hackett is good or not yet. But you can't say fire him because he sucks and say cut EJ because guys are wide open all over, just throw the damn ball. It's bitching just to B word, or just plain stupid. I honestly haven't really had a problem with Hackett's game plan's this season. I didn't like the first half of this Sunday going pass heavy, but I think Houston was going to really work on their run defense after the NY game and Hackett just wanted to establish that they would throw to open up the run. Didn't work for a couple reasons, dropped balls and EJ missing wide open people. So I guess I can't fault him because the plan probably would have worked if either of those 2 things didn't happen.
Kelly the Dog Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 I honestly haven't really had a problem with Hackett's game plan's this season. I didn't like the first half of this Sunday going pass heavy, but I think Houston was going to really work on their run defense after the NY game and Hackett just wanted to establish that they would throw to open up the run. Didn't work for a couple reasons, dropped balls and EJ missing wide open people. So I guess I can't fault him because the plan probably would have worked if either of those 2 things didn't happen. Yep. people complained when he ran all the time on first down and then complained when he didn't run all the time on first down. Fans for some reason seem to think that most plays should go for first downs when it's just foolish. He's done a pretty good if not very good job this year. The fact is, virtually everyone agrees that in all four games there were a LOT of pass plays to be made on the field and any kind of even serviceable QBing would have resulted in a lot more scoring and either a 3-1 or 4-0 record. How is that possible that Hackett sucks, too?
Deranged Rhino Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 Yep. people complained when he ran all the time on first down and then complained when he didn't run all the time on first down. Fans for some reason seem to think that most plays should go for first downs when it's just foolish. He's done a pretty good if not very good job this year. The fact is, virtually everyone agrees that in all four games there were a LOT of pass plays to be made on the field and any kind of even serviceable QBing would have resulted in a lot more scoring and either a 3-1 or 4-0 record. How is that possible that Hackett sucks, too? The only thing that has given me pause with Hackett this year was how he chose to attack the Texans. I completely agree with you that it's impossible to fairly evaluate Hackett while getting sub-par play from the QB position. However, it didn't take a genius to see the Texans were begging to be run on all game. I only just started looking at the all-22 from this week (man, it's UGLY, especially Pears' performance) but it's clear Hackett went in to this game planning on EJ throwing the ball 40+ times. That's a losing game plan -- even before the first snap.
FireChan Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 (edited) Reenactment of TC and EJ hanging out last night. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtkST5-ZFHw NSFW: Language. Edited September 30, 2014 by FireChan
Kelly the Dog Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 The only thing that has given me pause with Hackett this year was how he chose to attack the Texans. I completely agree with you that it's impossible to fairly evaluate Hackett while getting sub-par play from the QB position. However, it didn't take a genius to see the Texans were begging to be run on all game. I only just started looking at the all-22 from this week (man, it's UGLY, especially Pears' performance) but it's clear Hackett went in to this game planning on EJ throwing the ball 40+ times. That's a losing game plan -- even before the first snap. Not necessarily. There were missed passes and several dropped balls in the first few drives. Those easily could have been scoring drives. The running lanes were open to some degree because we were passing so much, especially considering they weren't open much in the last couple games. I'm not at all saying it was a genius game plan, or even any good. But the fact is, there WERE plays to be made ALL over the field all game long. Even the play that lost the game, the Watt INT.
Deranged Rhino Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 Not necessarily. There were missed passes and several dropped balls in the first few drives. Those easily could have been scoring drives. The running lanes were open to some degree because we were passing so much, especially considering they weren't open much in the last couple games. I'm not at all saying it was a genius game plan, or even any good. But the fact is, there WERE plays to be made ALL over the field all game long. Even the play that lost the game, the Watt INT. Sure, the film is even worse than it was live. You know game plans change based on what the defense is doing in game, and I'm not going to pretend that I know as much about calling an offense as Hackett, so all I can really look at is the first few series which are largely determined (if not scripted) based on whatever the coaches saw in their own prep on their opponent. The fact they opened with 3 straight passes (6 out of the first 9 plays) was crazy to me -- especially based on what the Bills did against SD last week -- regardless of what they were trying to establish or set up for later in the game. Of course, you're right, there were still plays to be made so it's complete speculation on my part, it just didn't sit well with me. I'm more than willing to give Hackett more chances with a competent QB though.
ALLEN1QB Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 I for one have a new found respect for Marrone to have the balls to make a change. How many coaches before him would not and left us to do nothing but pull our hair out. At least he is willing to try something and not sit there and blow the whole season.
billsfan_34 Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 Would you rather he go down with EJ, or go down swinging? At a certain point you need to make a choice between development and winning. theres no development in EJ, he plays scared and hasnt even learned to set his feet when he throws. Im ok with benching him. Just because your drafted number 1 doesnt mean crap to me. He has had enough chances...good for Marrone for benching him. Maybe its a nice shot across the bow to EJ but I know one think, right now EJ is not even close to being an NFL qb
eee1776 Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 I agree, it took a lot of guts to make this move...Listening to ESPN radio they game DM praise for doing what was right for the team. In the end it dose make the front office look bad for drafting EJ in the first round .
atlbillsfan1975 Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 They will all be gone after this year. They know it, that is why they are trying everything they can to win. IF for some reason the Bills win with Orton and make the playoffs the coaches have a shot at coming back. The coaches i believe have maybe even been told, if you don't make the playoffs you are out. . Once you know that there is no reason not to try to just win right now. I think Orton today gives you the better shot. Orton has reached his max potential but they don't care. If Orton can be close to an Alex Smith type of QB this team has a shot to win this crappy AFCE.
Kelly the Dog Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 Sure, the film is even worse than it was live. You know game plans change based on what the defense is doing in game, and I'm not going to pretend that I know as much about calling an offense as Hackett, so all I can really look at is the first few series which are largely determined (if not scripted) based on whatever the coaches saw in their own prep on their opponent. The fact they opened with 3 straight passes (6 out of the first 9 plays) was crazy to me -- especially based on what the Bills did against SD last week -- regardless of what they were trying to establish or set up for later in the game. Of course, you're right, there were still plays to be made so it's complete speculation on my part, it just didn't sit well with me. I'm more than willing to give Hackett more chances with a competent QB though. Yep. I'm not even arguing it was a good strategy, or a different one may not have worked better. I just think there were a lot of plays left out on the field, you can't do what you always do, and you have to mix it up a lot week to week, sometimes even going against your strength briefly, so that teams cannot prepare for you. The Pats, back when they were good, used to do that all the time.
FireChan Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 Sure, the film is even worse than it was live. You know game plans change based on what the defense is doing in game, and I'm not going to pretend that I know as much about calling an offense as Hackett, so all I can really look at is the first few series which are largely determined (if not scripted) based on whatever the coaches saw in their own prep on their opponent. The fact they opened with 3 straight passes (6 out of the first 9 plays) was crazy to me -- especially based on what the Bills did against SD last week -- regardless of what they were trying to establish or set up for later in the game. Of course, you're right, there were still plays to be made so it's complete speculation on my part, it just didn't sit well with me. I'm more than willing to give Hackett more chances with a competent QB though. I know what you're saying. Hackett had a gameplan that relied more on the pass than any other we had all year. In retrospect, it was probably not a good decision. We probably should've done the "run, run, pass," although we all know how well that goes over with some folks.
Rob's House Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 I don't know what you are talking about. The Bills ran for 200 yards, didn't allow an offensive td, scored one offensive td in Tuel's start. They lost single handedly because of Tuel. He went 18-39 (46%) for 229 yards (4 ypa) with 1 td and 2 ints. He made one throw. That's a grown up offense? Thad Lewis has essentially the #s we are benching EJ for: 5 tds, 4 ints, 81.4 QB rating. He had 2 td passes in one game and won both Miami games without throwing a td. That's a grown up offense? Tuel averaged 4 yards per pass!!! We ran for 200 yards!!! We lost without KC scoring a td!!! That's a grown up offense??? Why do you put dropped passes thrown below the receivers' knees on the receiver when Manuel is passing, but the 6 drops of much better passes from Tuel are on him? I understand the concept of gotta blame somebody. It's idiotic to blame two people at same time by saying 1) there are all kinds of open receives and plays to be made on the field for the QB, cut him! and simultaneously say 2) the OC can't call or design plays, fire him! I haven't noticed too much of this. From what I've seen Hackett's been the go to scapegoat for the EJ at all costs crowd.
Kelly the Dog Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 I haven't noticed too much of this. From what I've seen Hackett's been the go to scapegoat for the EJ at all costs crowd. I haven't seen that at all. 90% of the EJ at all costs crowd, to me, has always been it's too early to know for either of them. Last year was a wash because of all the myriad of issues and they both need some time. Time ran out on EJ this week. Most of the bash Hackett crowd, to me, are mostly the bash everything bunch.
Buftex Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 How about, he just knows a young raw QB is just not ready, and most of the rest of the team is. They do not make this move at this time last year at all, with the team is not ready, with the division less strong, and with Thad and Tuel as the backups. They do it now because it makes sense. Things are rarely if ever black and white. There were ten reasons this move was made at this time, not one: That EJ stinks. :thumbsup: I have been as supportive of EJ as anyone...but not at the cost of resigning myself to writing this season off, after four games. I also hate this narritive (not yours, but in general) that by benching Manuel, the Bills are "done with him". No, they aren't. He will more than likely be a Buffalo Bill in 2015, and I would be surprised, whether for perfromance or injury reasons, he doesn't get another crack at the starting job. To me, given the way EJ played this past Sunday (the last two Sundays), I think it was/is reasonable to expect, he wouldn't fare a lot better against the Lions pass rush this coming Sunday. I just don't think that leaving a guy in, who is obviously struggling, especially at such a vital position, does EJ any good, or the rest of his teammates. Cliche as it is, it is a team game...playing QB, your mistakes and shortcomings are going to be magnified. I honestly believe that Marrone feels like he has a pretty decent team on his hands...I think he owes it to them (not to mention Bills fans) to try to make this into a winning team this year. It has nothing to do with new owners or anything like that, in my opinion, and everything to do with being a coach who's job it is to try to win, all the time. I am not even 100% sold on Dough Marrone and his coaching staff, but I think this was a smart decision.
A Dog Named Kelso Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 (edited) The only thing that has given me pause with Hackett this year was how he chose to attack the Texans. I completely agree with you that it's impossible to fairly evaluate Hackett while getting sub-par play from the QB position. However, it didn't take a genius to see the Texans were begging to be run on all game. I only just started looking at the all-22 from this week (man, it's UGLY, especially Pears' performance) but it's clear Hackett went in to this game planning on EJ throwing the ball 40+ times. That's a losing game plan -- even before the first snap. Actually its not. Had two or three of those passes hit its very possible they would drop more into coverage and open up the running lanes. We do not know what the game planning was. Edited September 30, 2014 by A Dog Named Kelso
Kelly the Dog Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 Actually its not. Had two or three of those passes hit its very possible the would drop more into coverage and open up the running lanes. We not know what the game planning was. That's a good point. There is a lot we don't know about these things.
Wayne Cubed Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 Actually its not. Had two or three of those passes hit its very possible the would drop more into coverage and open up the running lanes. We not know what the game planning was. I said it earlier I think that his game plan early on in the game was to pass to open up the run. Houston was not going to lay down and just let the Bills run, with what happened against the Giants and with what the Bills have shown thus far. Couple of completed passes and maybe the game plan ends up different.
MRW Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 They will all be gone after this year. They know it, that is why they are trying everything they can to win. IF for some reason the Bills win with Orton and make the playoffs the coaches have a shot at coming back. The coaches i believe have maybe even been told, if you don't make the playoffs you are out. . Once you know that there is no reason not to try to just win right now. I think Orton today gives you the better shot. Orton has reached his max potential but they don't care. If Orton can be close to an Alex Smith type of QB this team has a shot to win this crappy AFCE. I sure as hell hope the coaches are going into this trying to win right now. That would be the proper approach whether or not they've been told their jobs hinge on a playoff spot. This is no time to be sacrificing a season with the goal of developing a QB.
Deranged Rhino Posted September 30, 2014 Posted September 30, 2014 (edited) I said it earlier I think that his game plan early on in the game was to pass to open up the run. Houston was not going to lay down and just let the Bills run, with what happened against the Giants and with what the Bills have shown thus far. Couple of completed passes and maybe the game plan ends up different. Except the one advantage the Bills' line has is when they run block. The Texans are weak up the middle, sending your lineman back into pass protection (where they've struggled all season) against Watt and company plays into the Texans strengths and into the Bills weaknesses. I realize it's possible (and certainly valid) to use the pass to open up the run. But to go into the game thinking that way is letting the Texans dictate the game plan to the offense, when it should be the other way around. Edited September 30, 2014 by GreggyT
Recommended Posts