Bills Bench the Wrong Guy

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

I was on the keep EJ in until the game yesterday. I defended him over and over, but by the end of the game I turned to my buddy and said Orton has got to start. Let him work on his game behind the scene like he should have from the beginning. Play Orton this year and next maybe EJ will be ready by 2016, maybe not.

[DC Tom]

Do people even look at the play by play before complaining about the play calls?

 

Does watching the game count? 'Cause I watched that game, and that play calling was as asinine as it gets.

 

And no, a short pass is not a run, "effectively" or in any other sense.

[Green Lightning]

What happens when Orton plays poorly? Seriously, for the folks who cried for this, what then? My guess is that those folks will pretend they never said any of those things, and will know exactly who we need to draft, and when that guy falters, say they always knew he sucked. It must be great to sit behind a keyboard and never be held responsible for concrete decisions. Have I fairly summed up the last 15 years of this board for many posters here (not all, I know)?

 

So what If he does? It's a team game, he's on the team and the coach thinks he gives us a better chance to win. EJ would still be the starter if the coaches believed he was progressing - he wasn't. He was incapable of making the basic reads and throws a pro QB must make. It's a swing and a miss on 1st round QB. Happens all the time. Move on and draft another QB, then another until you get a good one. Orton's got a track record to suggest he will give a better chance to win. Last I checked, that's the FN reason we play the games.

[Billshank Redemption]

The Bills should have benched Hackett. 23 runs and 44 passes against one of the worst rushing defenses and best pass rusher in the NFL. Way to attack your adversary's weaknesses Junior. This basically finishes EJ in Buffalo. Now that he's a Duncan Butterfly, this is JP Losman redux. You can't treat your starter like a yoyo. It's over. Time to start looking for the next franchise QB.

 

Don't like Hackett, but EJ has the worst QBR of any qb still playing and has seen his rating and completion % regress every week.

[John Cocktosten]

We have no clue what Hackett can do unless he has a QB who can get through his progressions and accurately deliver the ball. Right now his hands are tied by a QB who has trouble checking it down and getting to his second progression which is QB 101.

 

From what I've seen the WRs are getting open and EJ is missing or panicking. Add the 4-5 drops on top of that and I like his chances of being decent.

[Freddie's Dead]

2 positive plays out of 6 and they're running the ball effectively? And the two good runs were merely solid good plays.

 

Another issue with your calculation is that you don't factor in the fact that the Bills closed the first half with 5 straight passing plays because they had to pass, and they closed the second half with 8 straight passing plays because they had to pass. The ratio of pass to run shrinks to 33-22 (inclusive of two sacks). That's high by Bills' standards, but if you look at a team like, say, the Eagles - another team that lost a close game and a team with a good offensive design -- you'll see a team that dropped back 45 times (inclusive of a sack and a qb scramble) and ran it 11 times. And the Eagles have the best RB in the league!

 

My larger point is that you should look at what happens across the league to teams that are losing games in the 4th quarter. They can't play field position ball anymore - they have to score. And teams in the NFL are more likely to score (as opposed to simply get good field position or eat clock) by passing it.

 

OK, good point about end of 1st half, disagree with the 2nd half, but with your adjustments, that changes the pass run ratio to 60/40. Still a losing equation. We got the ball with 4:49 in the 4th down only 6 points. You can still run the rock there in a hurry up offense, and you get to burn clock so Fitz doesn't have time to kick the FG. We're just not going to agree dude. Let's see if Hackett has Orton throw >60% against Detroit. I think if that happens, we lose.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Fred Jackson Jockstrap

[benderbender]

The Jets want Geno Smith to work through his issues, we want EJ Manuel to get better through osmosis. We'll see how the 2 schools of thought work.

[nonprophet]

The Bills should have benched Hackett. 23 runs and 44 passes against one of the worst rushing defenses and best pass rusher in the NFL. Way to attack your adversary's weaknesses Junior. This basically finishes EJ in Buffalo. Now that he's a Duncan Butterfly, this is JP Losman redux. You can't treat your starter like a yoyo. It's over. Time to start looking for the next franchise QB.

Every football player must face competition at his position in order to bring out his best. EJ faced no real competition in training camp because the other QBs were awful, you can blame the front office for that.

If the last two games were EJ's best then he is done and if they weren't then he'd better start proving that he deserves to start again. Tolerating substandard play is sure to preserve the status quo.

 

Don't like Hackett, but EJ has the worst QBR of any qb still playing and has seen his rating and completion % regress every week.

What's the name of the QB coach they hired during the offseason?

Let's see:

* Lewis cut.

* Tuel demoted to PS.

* EJ benched.

Whatever they're paying that guy is not enough.

[pepsicat17]

The Jets want Geno Smith to work through his issues, we want EJ Manuel to get better through osmosis. We'll see how the 2 schools of thought work.

 

We want EJ to get better by practing and holding the board and watching an actual QB play, like he was supposted to from day one. He was pushed into the starting role by injury and it is clear he's not ready to be the starter.

[Augie]

 

 

I still think the o line is going to be a problem for just about anyone back there. We shall see.

Yep, the O-line may lead to EJ's return. I like EJ and I bet he takes this like a pro, but some of those throws were just too painful to watch. I've been watching him since his FSU days (I have a son there) and it looks like the same stuff he did there..... Head scratching at times.

[Freddie's Dead]

Every football player must face competition at his position in order to bring out his best. EJ faced no real competition in training camp because the other QBs were awful, you can blame the front office for that.

If the last two games were EJ's best then he is done and if they weren't then he'd better start proving that he deserves to start again. Tolerating substandard play is sure to preserve the status quo.

 

 

OK, Number Six (loved that show). Anyone with a PMG avatar is OK by me ;-)

[Orton's Arm]

OK, good point about end of 1st half, disagree with the 2nd half, but with your adjustments, that changes the pass run ratio to 60/40. Still a losing equation. We got the ball with 4:49 in the 4th down only 6 points. You can still run the rock there in a hurry up offense, and you get to burn clock so Fitz doesn't have time to kick the FG. We're just not going to agree dude. Let's see if Hackett has Orton throw >60% against Detroit. I think if that happens, we lose.

 

The plan you're suggesting seems to be for the Bills to march down the field in a many-play, "kill them with a thousand small cuts" type drive. First down. Second down. Third down. Convert. Repeat again and again, until you get a TD.

 

Hypothetically speaking, let's say the Bills adopted that approach. Let's say they ran the ball two plays out of three, and threw it one play out of three. Odds are the Bills RBs would average less than 5 yards per carry on a drive like that, especially with the Texans loading up to stop the run. This means the quarterback has to generate positive yardage on his one play out of the three. If he doesn't, the Bills have to punt. The QB doesn't necessarily have to give them great yardage. But he has to give them something, each and every time he drops back to pass.

 

There was no way that was going to happen with Manuel.

 

With Manuel under center, you're not going to have sustained, many-play drives like that. (Not unless your running game is so good that almost nothing is required from your quarterback.) Manuel is going to make at least as many bad plays as good ones. Your only hope of scoring is to rip off big chunks of yards quickly. You hope that by the time his bad play kills the drive, at least you're in field goal range. It's not like he's going to give you a large number of competent plays in a row. (Which is what you need for that many-play drive of yours to result in a TD.) Instead, you have him throw a 3 yard pass to Fred Jackson, and hope that he turns it into a 40 yard gain. Or, you have Mike Williams get so ridiculously wide open there's no one in his same zip code, you have Manuel heave a pass in his general direction, and then have Williams run it in for an 80 yard TD. Big plays like that are the only way to score when your offense (and your quarterback) are incapable of putting together a long string of small, successful plays.

[BuffaninATL]

Calm down. EJ has a chance to work on his game now and we have a chance to win what were winnable games. Orton's no messiah but he can make basic throws, and we haven't had that out of EJ.

 

are you serious? does "work on his game now" mean he will magically improve his accuracy, see the field better, not miss wide open receivers, and stop throwing the ball like it's a banana? Everyone can see what EJ is, and there is talent on this team that cannot afford to be squandered like yesterday. He should have been yanked during the game while we had multiple chances to win it. Because of this, we should be 3-1, not 2-2.....this is the bottom line.

[theRalph]

Now, I'm not really into conspiracy theories...but consider this: The brass had to be thinking in terms of the benching after last week. Is it possible that the Bills pass to run count of 45 to 23 was by design...designed to either let Manuel flourish with so many pass reps - OR TO FAIL MISERABLY, so that there would not be a bunch of second guessing on the benching?

[dave mcbride]

OK, good point about end of 1st half, disagree with the 2nd half, but with your adjustments, that changes the pass run ratio to 60/40. Still a losing equation. We got the ball with 4:49 in the 4th down only 6 points. You can still run the rock there in a hurry up offense, and you get to burn clock so Fitz doesn't have time to kick the FG. We're just not going to agree dude. Let's see if Hackett has Orton throw >60% against Detroit. I think if that happens, we lose.

 

The Bills did run it more percentage wise than any team in the NFL last year, so it's not as if Hackett is pass happy. They run it a lot still (just not yesterday). We'll see about Orton, but I think the Bills are in for a tough game that they may have to play catch-up in.

 

The plan you're suggesting seems to be for the Bills to march down the field in a many-play, "kill them with a thousand small cuts" type drive. First down. Second down. Third down. Convert. Repeat again and again, until you get a TD.

 

Hypothetically speaking, let's say the Bills adopted that approach. Let's say they ran the ball two plays out of three, and threw it one play out of three. Odds are the Bills RBs would average less than 5 yards per carry on a drive like that, especially with the Texans loading up to stop the run. This means the quarterback has to generate positive yardage on his one play out of the three. If he doesn't, the Bills have to punt. The QB doesn't necessarily have to give them great yardage. But he has to give them something, each and every time he drops back to pass.

 

There was no way that was going to happen with Manuel.

 

With Manuel under center, you're not going to have sustained, many-play drives like that. (Not unless your running game is so good that almost nothing is required from your quarterback.) Manuel is going to make at least as many bad plays as good ones. Your only hope of scoring is to rip off big chunks of yards quickly. You hope that by the time his bad play kills the drive, at least you're in field goal range. It's not like he's going to give you a large number of competent plays in a row. (Which is what you need for that many-play drive of yours to result in a TD.) Instead, you have him throw a 3 yard pass to Fred Jackson, and hope that he turns it into a 40 yard gain. Or, you have Mike Williams get so ridiculously wide open there's no one in his same zip code, you have Manuel heave a pass in his general direction, and then have Williams run it in for an 80 yard TD. Big plays like that are the only way to score when your offense (and your quarterback) are incapable of putting together a long string of small, successful plays.

 

Great post.

[BuffaninATL]

This is a really weak excuse. Even Roy wouldn't use this excuse. I agree we should have stuck with the run, but how does that absolve Manwel from missing wide open receiver after wide open receiver? Half his completions were off ****ty throws. Trying to develop Manwel is pumping a dry well.

 

Who is Manwel ?

[Kirby Jackson]

Now, I'm not really into conspiracy theories...but consider this: The brass had to be thinking in terms of the benching after last week. Is it possible that the Bills pass to run count of 45 to 23 was by design...designed to either let Manuel flourish with so many pass reps - OR TO FAIL MISERABLY, so that there would not be a bunch of second guessing on the benching?

No, there are a handful of swing games every year that can go either way. Yesterday was one of those so they were trying to do whatever they could to get the W. It just didn't happen because of poor QB play.

[Homey D. Clown]

The Bills should have benched Hackett. 23 runs and 44 passes against one of the worst rushing defenses and best pass rusher in the NFL. Way to attack your adversary's weaknesses Junior. This basically finishes EJ in Buffalo. Now that he's a Duncan Butterfly, this is JP Losman redux. You can't treat your starter like a yoyo. It's over. Time to start looking for the next franchise QB.

 

This HAS to be a troll thread. The offensive play calling was just fine, after re-watching the game, for, well, Freddie Jackson highlights, EJ was beyond terrible. He was so bad on so many plays, it looked like he was doing a Tim Tebow impersonation, and on one pass, he nearly got Woods killed AGAIN, and AFTER he got Goodwin knocked out.

 

All I have to say about this idiotic thread is: Please, you MUST be trolling.

[thewildrabbit]

Why is that the position that they will be in? I think that Sam Bradford will be the Bills QB next year. A young vet with talent (and some success) but some question marks.

They gonna trade another #1 for him Kirby? Perhaps trade EJ for a 4th to somebody also?

 

Man 0 man, October can't get here quick enough, as I'm hoping Pegs crap cans this entire regime of losers.

 

Take a long hard look at the Cowboys this year, as they are pounding the rock with great success. and yea, even against a stacked box. Romo looks a lot better with that pound it down the throat run game, and so would EJ.

[DirtDart]

The Bills should have benched Hackett. 23 runs and 44 passes against one of the worst rushing defenses and best pass rusher in the NFL. Way to attack your adversary's weaknesses Junior. This basically finishes EJ in Buffalo. Now that he's a Duncan Butterfly, this is JP Losman redux. You can't treat your starter like a yoyo. It's over. Time to start looking for the next franchise QB.

So true, and made me laugh.