Deranged Rhino Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 It's hard to judge how good Hackett's game plans are when we've yet to see it run by a QB who has full command of his game. Hackett might be terrible, I hated his approach to yesterday's game, but let's see what his game plan looks like over the next couple weeks with Orton in. When I've watched the all-22s, the one constant has been the number of missed opportunities on offense. The plays have been there, EJ just hasn't (or couldn't) executed the offense with any degree of confidence.
BillsCelticsAngelsBama Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 Blaming Hackett for the inept QB player is like blaming GM when their car hits a pedestrian. God I hope Shane Carden lasts until round 2 in next years Draft
Freddie's Dead Posted September 29, 2014 Author Posted September 29, 2014 This is a really weak excuse. Even Roy wouldn't use this excuse. I agree we should have stuck with the run, but how does that absolve Manwel from missing wide open receiver after wide open receiver? Half his completions were off ****ty throws. Trying to develop Manwel is pumping a dry well. I'm not absolving EJ of anything. But benching him is a desperate move by a desperate franchise who hasn't won anything in 14 years. EJ was terrible yesterday, but we played right into the Texans hands by making him throw 67% of the time. He's a .500 QB right now, with wins at Chicago and Miami at home. But we pounded the rock in those games, and asked EJ to manage. Hackett let those games go to his head, so he did what Gailey did with Fitz and tried to saddle him up. EJ was not ready for that yet. And now his career in Buffalo is over, and we are back to square one. Lather, rinse, repeat.
thewildrabbit Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 The Bills should have benched Hackett. 23 runs and 44 passes against one of the worst rushing defenses and best pass rusher in the NFL. Way to attack your adversary's weaknesses Junior. This basically finishes EJ in Buffalo. Now that he's a Duncan Butterfly, this is JP Losman redux. You can't treat your starter like a yoyo. It's over. Time to start looking for the next franchise QB. I can see why this coaching staff made Orton the starter for this game. Its like a lamb to slaughter when you see that Detroit has the best front four in the NFL, and are currently ranked the #1 defense in the league. Or, losing to Ryan Fitspasspick was such a slap in the face to the FO that they just couldn't help themselves. You are right tho, this team won't win until they find a way to pound the rock properly.
Tyrod's Tailor Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 You are right tho, this team won't win until they find a way to pound the rock properly. And they won't be able to do so until defenses have to respect the passing game.
BillsCelticsAngelsBama Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 Why do we keep having him throw ??????? Cuz he's (was) THE QB.... HeLLLLLLLLLLO
Big Gun Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 I think they should fire Hackett...I defended him last year with the benefit of the doubt of dealing with injuries, young players, and being new to the team and NFL. This year, its really more of the same and he just doesn't get it. EJ has not been good the last 2 weeks, but neither has the whole offense and especially the game plan. Benching your young QB is not how you develop him, especially for a journeyman QB who has never been very good, just quit on his other team, and has yet to ever hold on to a job. clueless
billykaykay Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 So they have to abandon the game plan because he was incapable of executing it? A better plan would be to play someone more capable of getting the job done. That's what they did. agree.
Boatdrinks Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 The Bills should have benched Hackett. 23 runs and 44 passes against one of the worst rushing defenses and best pass rusher in the NFL. Way to attack your adversary's weaknesses Junior. This basically finishes EJ in Buffalo. Now that he's a Duncan Butterfly, this is JP Losman redux. You can't treat your starter like a yoyo. It's over. Time to start looking for the next franchise QB. I hated the run calls more than the passes fwiw ... A run on a 3rd and six in the red zone for instance? Guys were wide open and the QB stunk, very little to do with play calling. This should have been a coming out party for Manuel
chris heff Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 Guys were WIDE open yesterday. The execution was the problem. The play calling was good enough to win. He just needed to execute. I mean this in all honesty, how can you tell guys are wide open when watching on TV? I kept wondering if this were the case but can't tell, are you watching something I'm not?
Tyrod's Tailor Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 I mean this in all honesty, how can you tell guys are wide open when watching on TV? I kept wondering if this were the case but can't tell, are you watching something I'm not? He said he was at the game in another thread.
Kirby Jackson Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 I mean this in all honesty, how can you tell guys are wide open when watching on TV? I kept wondering if this were the case but can't tell, are you watching something I'm not? I was at the game.
Ohiostyle Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 What happens when Orton plays poorly? Seriously, for the folks who cried for this, what then? My guess is that those folks will pretend they never said any of those things, and will know exactly who we need to draft, and when that guy falters, say they always knew he sucked. It must be great to sit behind a keyboard and never be held responsible for concrete decisions. Have I fairly summed up the last 15 years of this board for many posters here (not all, I know)?
Tyrod's Tailor Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 What happens when Orton plays poorly? Seriously, for the folks who cried for this, what then? My guess is that those folks will pretend they never said any of those things, and will know exactly who we need to draft, and when that guy falters, say they always knew he sucked. It must be great to sit behind a keyboard and never be held responsible for concrete decisions. Have I fairly summed up the last 15 years of this board for many posters here (not all, I know)? What about everyone who called posters calling for EJ to be benched an idiot just last week?
Kirby Jackson Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 What happens when Orton plays poorly? Seriously, for the folks who cried for this, what then? My guess is that those folks will pretend they never said any of those things, and will know exactly who we need to draft, and when that guy falters, say they always knew he sucked. It must be great to sit behind a keyboard and never be held responsible for concrete decisions. Have I fairly summed up the last 15 years of this board for many posters here (not all, I know)? Orton isn't the long term answer. He is okay and most likely an improvement. He's not going to suddenly turn into Drew Brees. He is capable though of playing at a Palmer type level. That is good enough to win on this roster.
MRW Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 What happens when Orton plays poorly? Seriously, for the folks who cried for this, what then? My guess is that those folks will pretend they never said any of those things, and will know exactly who we need to draft, and when that guy falters, say they always knew he sucked. It must be great to sit behind a keyboard and never be held responsible for concrete decisions. Have I fairly summed up the last 15 years of this board for many posters here (not all, I know)? For me, it's not about Orton, at all. It's about EJ Manuel not getting the job done, and needing to sit on the bench for his own good and the good of the team.
Buffalo_Stampede Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 So why did they keep having him throw??? Most of the passes were in the 1st half. He had 25 1st half throws. We actually had a 10-0 lead. He only threw 20 times in the 2nd half even with us being down 10.
dave mcbride Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 (edited) You're right, I stand corrected. The 2nd half runs after the INT: FJ +7 yards on first down, then 2 incomplete passes and punt. CJ +8 on first down, +3 on 2nd down, 1st down, 3 more passes, then CJ for -4, incomplete pass, punt. Incomplete on 1st down, CJ -2 on 2nd, incomplete on 3rd, punt Fred has a 2 yard run on the next series, then it's pass the rest of the way. So I guess those -4, -2, and 2 yard runs scared Hackett so much he couldn't run the ball any more and EJ was his best option. Got it. Boy was I wrong. 2 positive plays out of 6 and they're running the ball effectively? And the two good runs were merely solid good plays. Another issue with your calculation is that you don't factor in the fact that the Bills closed the first half with 5 straight passing plays because they had to pass, and they closed the second half with 8 straight passing plays because they had to pass. The ratio of pass to run shrinks to 33-22 (inclusive of two sacks) if you factor out those plays in which there's really nothing to decide (i.e., you have to pass it). That's high by Bills' standards, but if you look at a team like, say, the Eagles - another team that lost a close game and a team with a good offensive design -- you'll see a team that dropped back 45 times (inclusive of a sack and a qb scramble) and ran it 11 times. And the Eagles have the best RB in the league! My larger point is that you should look at what happens across the league to teams that are losing games in the 4th quarter. They can't play field position ball anymore - they have to score. And teams in the NFL are more likely to score (as opposed to simply get good field position or eat clock) by passing it. Another one: look at the Steelers/Bucs game yesterday: the Steelers had the lead up until near the end, and despite having a good back in Bell dropped back 48 times and ran it 25. The Bucs dropped back 44 times and ran it 20 times. Seriously, take a look around the league when it comes to close games. Very few run it late in games if they're down. Edited September 29, 2014 by dave mcbride
A Dog Named Kelso Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 EJ is done in Buffalo. You don't come back from this, and you don't learn sitting on the bench. Yes because the process of grooming quarterback for years was to start them right away.
Orton's Arm Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 The Bills should have benched Hackett. 23 runs and 44 passes against one of the worst rushing defenses and best pass rusher in the NFL. Way to attack your adversary's weaknesses Junior. This basically finishes EJ in Buffalo. Now that he's a Duncan Butterfly, this is JP Losman redux. You can't treat your starter like a yoyo. It's over. Time to start looking for the next franchise QB. > 23 runs and 44 passes against one of the worst rushing defenses and best pass rusher in the NFL. A good running game can mask weaknesses in your passing attack. We saw a lot of that in weeks 1 and 2. It's quite possible Hackett passed up the chance to do that against Houston. (Although I think Dave McBride brings up a very good point about how, in the second half, the Texans loaded up against the run and dared Manuel to beat them.) Ignore Manuel's draft position. Ignore the hype. Ignore his supposed "potential." Ignore the "front office knows best" mentality which sold so many Bills fans on him in the first place. Focus on his actual play; and ask yourself if there's anything there which even remotely suggests he'll ever be great? At the moment, he has a long way to go to even reach basic competence. He's not making basic throws any third string NFL quarterback should be able to make. The accuracy just isn't there. Nor is the field vision or decision-making. If Marrone loses the locker room, his career in Buffalo is done. With reasonably competent quarterback play, the Bills would have beaten Houston; quite possibly by double digits. If you're Doug Marrone, how do you explain to your locker room that instead of putting a competent QB out there (Kyle Orton), you're willing to sacrifice wins for the sake of developing one player? These players have worked very hard to prepare for this season. Had Marrone kept Manuel under center, all that hard work would be for naught. Peyton Manning's career had a number of bumps early on. A four interception performance inspired Jim Mora's playoffs rant. Some of his early career statistics were less than sparkling. But amidst the errors and rookie mistakes, you could also see flashes of greatness. He'd put in a commanding performance for a series here or a drive there. Eventually, the rookie mistakes became less and less; while those flashes became his usual level of play. It was reasonably obvious to someone watching Manning as a rookie that he had the potential to develop into something special. Manuel's play hasn't been like that at all. There isn't a reason to keep investing in the guy--giving him snaps his play on the field hasn't earned--when he's done absolutely nothing which remotely suggests he'll ever achieve greatness in the NFL. It's time to turn the page. I personally suspect that Hackett may need to go as well. But it's not like the Bills can go out and hire a really good replacement offensive coordinator right this instant. Rightly or wrongly, he'll get at least until the end of the season to prove what he can do. Without a competent quarterback, it's hard to evaluate your receiving corps. Or your running game that matter; because defenses will load up against the run and dare you to beat them with the pass. Also, the absence of a competent quarterback makes it hard to evaluate your offensive coordinator. Especially when the incompetent quarterback in question only makes one read. I'm guessing that Orton's understanding of the offense is only partial. My hope is that by the second half of the season, he'll understand the offense well enough--and be playing well enough--to give the Bills the chance to fairly and accurately evaluate their receivers, tight ends, running game, offensive line, and offensive coordinator.
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