Does The EJ Benching Make Whaley Look Really Bad To New Ownership?

[BuffaloBillsForever]

That may be your opinion. But true "personnel men" in the NFL know not to judge a pick from the first 4 games of his career. They may disagree with Whaley's assessment but they are unlikely to 'snicker' at the choice.

 

I read it as other GM's etc were snikering at the decision to move up when it first happened. Snikering as in disagreement that it is/was a bad move. I'm sure personnel men judge their colleagues all the time about decisions when they are first made.

 

Remember when Bob Kraft blasted the Bills publicly about the Mario Williams signing/contract before he even played a single snap for the Bills? Happens all the time.

Edited September 30, 2014 by BuffaloBillsForever

[Fan in Chicago]

I'll return the favor and point out that it is your opinion that other personnel men around the NFL do not snicker at deals their competition makes. I'm sure you are not going to contend that you know every personnel man in the NFL personally as well as what they are doing at all times.

 

Touche

 

Yet, I am not convinced Sullivan knows either.

[birdog1960]

yes.

[Kellyto83TD]

Discuss Manuel, Watkins. Moving up in the draft. How will/should Pegula perceive this misjudgement?

 

Yes. If Orton works out it makes Marrone look great. No matter what he has the Balls to do what needed to be done something former Coaches didn't do.

[Kelly the Dog]

Should Pegula fire himself or take power away from himself, or lose total confidence in his judgment because he, in retrospect, made a horrible decision in the most important decision he can make as owner of a hockey team?

 

Or...

 

Does he know, like anyone who is not an idiot knows, that people at the top make bad decisions, even major ones, all the time, and the mark of any successful person atop any company anywhere is to OVERALL make more good and great decisions than average and poor ones, recognize your mistakes as early as possible and clean them up as well as possible, and build a solid foundation for the short, mid, and long term prospects of the organization, knowing it will not be perfect or done overnight.

[JohnC]

Should Pegula fire himself or take power away from himself, or lose total confidence in his judgment because he, in retrospect, made a horrible decision in the most important decision he can make as owner of a hockey team?

 

Or...

 

Does he know, like anyone who is not an idiot knows, that people at the top make bad decisions, even major ones, all the time, and the mark of any successful person atop any company anywhere is to OVERALL make more good and great decisions than average and poor ones, recognize your mistakes as early as possible and clean them up as well as possible, and build a solid foundation for the short, mid, and long term prospects of the organization, knowing it will not be perfect or done overnight.

 

I like Whaley very much and I don't think he should be fired. But make no mistake that he set this franchise back a few years with the the EJ selection and then giving up a first round pick in order to buttress the prospect of his qb. I think Watkins is going to be an exceptional player. But his talents, along with Woods, are being squandered because of the investment in EJ.

 

Most draft analysts concluded that EJ was a raw prospect who was going to take some time to develop. It was a reach to believe that he could quickly take over the reigns as the franchise qb. Our organization felt otherwise. The accuracy issue was always an issue with him as a draft prospect. That doesn't mean that he shouldn't have been drafted but taking him in the first round was a reach.

 

I was listening to WGR and Joe B this morning. Joe B stated that even during practice prior to the season it was apparent that his accuracy level was very troublesome. Is there still a chance that Manuel can eventually improve his accuracy to an acceptable level? I hate to say it but I doubt it.

[BillnutinHouston]

No, EJ's benching alone does not (and should not) make Whaley look bad. The final record is much more determinative. Besides, I don't think EJ's career is over by a long shot.

 

Should Pegula fire himself or take power away from himself, or lose total confidence in his judgment because he, in retrospect, made a horrible decision in the most important decision he can make as owner of a hockey team?

 

Or...

 

Does he know, like anyone who is not an idiot knows, that people at the top make bad decisions, even major ones, all the time, and the mark of any successful person atop any company anywhere is to OVERALL make more good and great decisions than average and poor ones, recognize your mistakes as early as possible and clean them up as well as possible, and build a solid foundation for the short, mid, and long term prospects of the organization, knowing it will not be perfect or done overnight.

Well said.

[Kelly the Dog]

I like Whaley very much and I don't think he should be fired. But make no mistake that he set this franchise back a few years with the the EJ selection and then giving up a first round pick in order to buttress the prospect of his qb. I think Watkins is going to be an exceptional player. But his talents, along with Woods, are being squandered because of the investment in EJ.

 

Most draft analysts concluded that EJ was a raw prospect who was going to take some time to develop. It was a reach to believe that he could quickly take over the reigns as the franchise qb. Our organization felt otherwise. The accuracy issue was always an issue with him as a draft prospect. That doesn't mean that he shouldn't have been drafted but taking him in the first round was a reach.

 

I was listening to WGR and Joe B this morning. Joe B stated that even during practice prior to the season it was apparent that his accuracy level was very troublesome. Is there still a chance that Manuel can eventually improve his accuracy to an acceptable level? I hate to say it but I doubt it.

How does he set the franchise back a few years when we are four games into year two? Not to mention that his choices were EJ and Geno and Glennon. That's ridiculous, IMO. I will bet anyone here $1000 that he doesn't get fired and that people in Pegula's camp and around the league think he is one of the best young GMs in the game.

 

Being a GM is like being a baseball player. You hit .333 and you're a stud, but it also means you miss on two of every three decisions. And you need a few homeruns in that .333 or it's substantially lessened.

[blzrul]

The mistake was getting a rookie QB and throwing him in right away. Rarely does a rookie come in and take a perennially bad team to the promised land. He needs a mentor and a little time to develop.

[Bangarang]

I think Whaley looks worse for trading up for Watkins than he does for EJ getting benched.

[JohnC]

How does he set the franchise back a few years when we are four games into year two? Not to mention that his choices were EJ and Geno and Glennon. That's ridiculous, IMO. I will bet anyone here $1000 that he doesn't get fired and that people in Pegula's camp and around the league think he is one of the best young GMs in the game.

 

Being a GM is like being a baseball player. You hit .333 and you're a stud, but it also means you miss on two of every three decisions. And you need a few homeruns in that .333 or it's substantially lessened.

 

I don't think he is going to be fired and I don't want him to be.

 

The selection of EJ in the first round as it presently stands is a mistake. You are suggesting that he was a better selection than Geno or Glennon. That isn't the issue. If there weren't any strong qb candidates in that draft then why invest a first round pick who many analysts felt was a developmental prospect? Just because you have a qb need doesn't mean that in that particular year when there is a dearth of good candidates you should reach for one out of desperation.

 

Without a doubt this franchise has been sent back by more than a year. Orton is simply a retread qb who is a stop gap option replacing a qb who at this point simply can't do the job. This organization still has to come up with a long term qb solution. We don't have a first round pick next year so that limits the candidates.

Edited September 30, 2014 by JohnC

[May Day 10]

as usual, the Bills look (and are) completely rudderless

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

I don't think he is going to be fired and I don't want him to be.

 

The selection of EJ in the first round as it presently stands is a mistake. You are suggesting that he was a better selection than Geno or Glennon. That isn't the issue. If there weren't any strong qb candidates in that draft then why invest a first round pick who many analysts felt was a developmental prospect? Just because you have a qb need doesn't mean that in that particular year when there is a dearth of good candidates you should reach for one out of desperation.

 

Without a doubt this franchise has been sent back by more than a year. Orton is simply a retread qb who is a stop gap option replacing a qb who at this point simply can't do the job. This organization still has to come up with a long term qb solution. We don't have a first round pick next year so that limits the candidates.

He traded down and got Kiko and EJ. He would have been roasted by everyone had he not drafted a QB early, and rightfully so.

 

[JohnC]

 

He traded down and got Kiko and EJ. He would have been roasted by everyone had he not drafted a QB early, and rightfully so.

 

The trade down was a smart move. Getting Kiko because of the trade down doesn't necessarily mean that you have to take a developmental qb in the first round. Who gives a hoot whether Whaley or Nix would have gotten roasted with any particular pick! You make decisions based on what is best for the franchise not because of the expected ressponse from the fickle peanut gallery.

Edited September 30, 2014 by JohnC

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

The trade down was a smart move. Getting Kiko because of the trade down doesn't necessarily mean that you have to take a developmental qb in the first round. Who gives a hoot whether Whaley or Nix would have gotten roasted with any particular pick! You make decisions based on what is best for the franchise not because of the expected ressponse from the fickle peanut gallery.

Of course not. But you draft qbs high if you do not have one. People forget that they drafted him as a project. He was supposed to sit for a year or two. IMO he was still a better choice than what else was there. Whaley had an excellent draft. And has built a solid team. If Orton plays well he will look brilliant. If Orton craps the bed he will look worse but will surely keep his job and we will see what he does to remedy the situation. I would be furious with him if he kept Thad and Tuel and we were in this situation but he didn't. He got a guy that has the experience to step right in and get the team in contention. We shall see how that goes. EJ is far, far, far from done in this league. Not saying he will ever be good, but we still don't know.

[JohnC]

 

Of course not. But you draft qbs high if you do not have one. People forget that they drafted him as a project. He was supposed to sit for a year or two. IMO he was still a better choice than what else was there. Whaley had an excellent draft. And has built a solid team. If Orton plays well he will look brilliant. If Orton craps the bed he will look worse but will surely keep his job and we will see what he does to remedy the situation. I would be furious with him if he kept Thad and Tuel and we were in this situation but he didn't. He got a guy that has the experience to step right in and get the team in contention. We shall see how that goes. EJ is far, far, far from done in this league. Not saying he will ever be good, but we still don't know.

 

You don't draft a qb at a high draft spot if the qb isn't ranked near where he is drafted. Having a desperate need for a franchise qb shouldn't force you to reach for a project qb with your first round pick. The purpose of trading away next year's first round to move up a few spots to take Watkins was to increase EJ's chances for success. The end result is that a sterling receiver's talents were squandered because a prospect who had accuracy issues coming into the draft displayed what probably isn't a correctable flaw i.e. accuracy.

 

Don't get carried away with Orton's potential for turning around the offense. He is an acknowledged retread (mediocre) qb at the end of his career who is replacing a young qb who couldn't hit the broadside of a barn.. Even with his limitations the veteran replacement qb gives this team a better chance to compete.

 

A good GM is someone who not only better positions his team for the present but he also is expected place the team in a good situation for the long haul. As it stands this franchise is still on its generational quest to acquire a legitimate franchise qb.

[Best Player Available]

The mistake was getting a rookie QB and throwing him in right away. Rarely does a rookie come in and take a perennially bad team to the promised land. He needs a mentor and a little time to develop.

IDK but the past couple of weeks watching Orton on the sideline and his body language.

He may not have got a memo regarding " mentoring" Anyone.

 

Ditto Brady last night after he was yanked.

[Kelly the Dog]

You don't draft a qb at a high draft spot if the qb isn't ranked near where he is drafted. Having a desperate need for a franchise qb shouldn't force you to reach for a project qb with your first round pick. The purpose of trading away next year's first round to move up a few spots to take Watkins was to increase EJ's chances for success. The end result is that a sterling receiver's talents were squandered because a prospect who had accuracy issues coming into the draft displayed what probably isn't a correctable flaw i.e. accuracy.

 

Don't get carried away with Orton's potential for turning around the offense. He is an acknowledged retread (mediocre) qb at the end of his career who is replacing a young qb who couldn't hit the broadside of a barn.. Even with his limitations the veteran replacement qb gives this team a better chance to compete.

 

A good GM is someone who not only better positions his team for the present but he also is expected place the team in a good situation for the long haul. As it stands this franchise is still on its generational quest to acquire a legitimate franchise qb.

Tell me all the great quarterbacks you would have drafted and signed as free agents in the last year and a half you knew were going to be franchise guys.

 

I wanted EJ as my number one because he had the highest upside in my opinion over any other guy coming out. He was a project and everyone knew it.

 

I didn't like Kolb ever but there was not a lot of guys out there in free agency, and probably none that would come to the Bills with a rookie HC and OC and no WR and no TE and a shaky OL and no assurance of ownership.

 

I hate keeping Tuel at any time, who I think doesn't belong in the NFL.

 

I thought Thad was average and stopgap at best when we got him, he played a touch better than I thought he would but wanted a veteran backup brought in.

 

So it's not like I have always been behind what Whaley has done. But then he brought in who I consider to be as good a backup veteran QB as there is. Not a franchise guy but a quality backup.

 

I don't see how there were many if any better options. We couldn't wait another year without drafting a QB high. That was out of the question. The only question was did you see a higher upside in EJ or Geno or another guy. I didn't. Did you see another veteran that could come in here the way the team was in the 2013 offseason? Hell, no. Whaley then got Woods, Goodwin, MWilliams and Sammy Watkins, and suddenly veteran guys like Orton did want to sign here. Are you telling me you would have waited a full year without drafting a guy, without signing a starter vet (please tell me who that was) and then traded two #1s for Blake Bortles?

 

You're good at explaining what went wrong, but I have yet to see a decent plan for what you or ANYONE would have done since Whaley took over that would have gotten us a franchise QB and a veteran backup and 4-0 in our division right now.

[Chandler#81]

IMView, I'm fine with what transpired in last years' draft. Fitzy refused to renegotiate (for reasons I've reminded many times) so getting a QB became desperate. My opinion of our benched QB is a matter of record, but I'd still take him over Geno or Nassib AND Marrone knew Nassib much better than anyone. I prefer to look at it as we got Kiko in the 1st & and a possible 'groomer QB' in the 2nd -that didn't pan out.

[Ted William's frozen head]

What this says about the Powers That Be at OBD is that they are desperate group of people right now in fear of their jobs.

 

Make no mistake!

 

If not for the ownership change and a genuine fear of losing their jobs, EJ would not be benched at this time.

 

This is a desperate move from a desperate group of people.

 

And keep in mind, I am one of the most vocal EJ bashers on this website.

Desperate how? They got rid of the incompetent,and moved on.

Besides, they are setting up EJ for his future:

http://www.kapre.com/real-estate-courses