Does The EJ Benching Make Whaley Look Really Bad To New Ownership?

[negativo]

 

 

I think it is more like 10 games. Pegula has to clean house. I mean, if I dropped 1.4 b on a team, would I put my faith in the Dougs?

Certainly not opposed to this.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

 

Pegulas favorite team was the Steelers for a long while. I assume he very much admires the Pittsburgh Steeler way of management, and I would imagine is very impressed with Whaley. I will bet anyone Whaley stays.

 

I didn't realize that he was a steelers fan. Still, he seems to be a good businessman; as one, why would he hand the reigns over to a FO and staff with no proven track record of success and who just struck out on a franchise QB?

 

Seems more likely that he tries to get a bill cowher to run the team.

[Hplarrm]

Need more specifics to make that judgement. I like that they're willing to admit a mistake. The best GMs make mistakes, the danger is letting the mistake stick around too long.

 

I have always felt that the EJ pick was not a mistake as from what I read about him he always was a PROJECT. Whaley moved into a position where like it or not, the Bills had to take the best QB they could get in the draft even though it was generally agreed that it was a pretty weak QB class. The Bills had a history going back to Ralph making a horrible football judgment that only he could make when he made a handshake deal with Jimbo to pay him off in his next contract.

 

This move had several impacts- the thought that Jimbo was gonna be our starter a few more years had already caused the Bills to pass on getting a new QB and when they realized they better acquire and train someone they stretched to draft Todd Collins a round earlier then most had him going and even worse when the football folly of Ralph's handshake deal came home to roost because there was no next contract for Jimbo the bills rushed TC to start when he needed at least another year to train the happy feet out from him.

 

My sense is also that something was causing the HoF committee to delay Ralph's entry into the Hall and my guess is that it may have been his blatant violation of the salary cap that did it.

 

Even worse, this bad football move set the Bills on a course of mismanaging the QB situation featuring idiocy with BJ Hobert, mismanagement of the RJ/DF situation, the JP debacles, etc.

 

The decision to cut Fitzy created a need at QB the Bills were not attractive enough to fill thru FA and we did not have the talent for trade so drafting as good as we could get in a bad class was it. The only QBs talked about as meriting a pick in the first 2 rounds were Geno Smith and EJ. Geno had better short term prospects (but now we see how sorry he is0 and EJ had better long term potential but was a PROJECT right from the start. I think Whaley/Merrone knew this and actually set forth trying to assemble a TEAM that might compete for the playoffs with the likely inconsistent play of EJ,

 

They tried by reinforcing our RBs (good job with Booby and Bryce), rolling the dice on OL (good try but it has not worked yet), and going for gambreakers at WR (too many drops on Sunday to win with PROJECT QB play.

 

Oh well. But overall if folks were disappointed with EJ it says more about their silly expectations than folks who correctly judged him to be a project did not expect him to lead this team to a playoff this year.

[filthymcnasty08]

Of the 3 QBs that he brought here this year, 0 were ready to lead an NFL offense. Many on this board knew it. Until it was blatantly obvious (with help from Marrone explosion), did he wait to bring in Orton.

 

It's the most important position on the field. And we know that it doesn't matter that you have high quality talent all over both sides of the ball…live and die by your QB.

 

If I am Terry, that is what he would have to explain in detail to me: the last 2 years of an absolute QB circus under Whaley.

Edited September 30, 2014 by filthymcnasty08

[8-8 Forever?]

Discuss Manuel, Watkins. Moving up in the draft. How will/should Pegula perceive this misjudgement?

I like whaley, but you don't spend 1.4B on something and then not put your own people in to run it. Of course, Pegs knows zippo about running an NFL franchise so maybe he'll pull a sabres and leave these guys in for a couple years.

Edited September 30, 2014 by 8and8Forever

[yungmack]

Short answer: No. But Marrone has likely put himself in line for being removed if Orton flounders. Benching EJ after four games smacks of both panic and a misunderstanding of what this season was supposed to be about.

[BuffaloBillsForever]

Here are some excerpts from Sullivans article this morning regarding Doug Whaley.

 

They can spin it any way they like. Benching Manuel at this stage of his career is an admission that he’s not cut out to be a franchise quarterback in the NFL, and that the Bills reached badly when they drafted him 16th overall two years ago.

 

Doug Whaley, the general manager, took a reckless gamble by swapping two No. 1 draft picks to Cleveland for the right to move up for receiver Sammy Watkins last May. As I understand it, personnel men around the NFL are still snickering at the deal.

 

I can’t imagine the Pegulas being terribly impressed by the turn of events. But at least the Bills won’t be benching EJ and trotting out his backup against the Pats here in two weeks, in the first game after the Pegulas take over as the new owners.

 

Marrone is still on the hot seat. Management believes it gave him the resources to win. The fact that his quarterback wasn’t ready is immaterial now. Whaley made the promises, now the coach has to win the games.

 

Whaley said he wanted to help Manuel succeed as soon as possible by surrounding him with more weapons. He didn’t do it to help Kyle Orton succeed. But he’s been looking bad on both fronts through the first quarter of the season. Manuel has been mainly bad. Watkins could use a better quarterback to justify Whaley’s gamble.

 

Whatever the case, Whaley looks very bad in all this. Manuel did not distinguish himself as a rookie, except by his ability to get hurt. Trading next year’s top pick, in a year when there should be some gifted quarterback prospects available, bordered on the irresponsible.

 

Failing to bring in a proven backup compounded the folly. They say Thad Lewis regressed in camp, and that’s true, but they needed a better backup plan if they intended to contend for the playoffs – as Whaley himself promised.

 

http://bills.buffalonews.com/2014/09/29/benching-proves-ej-cant-cut-it/

Edited September 30, 2014 by BuffaloBillsForever

[negativo]

Sullivan is right on point.

[BuffaloBillsForever]

Sullivan is right on point.

 

Agree.

[Fan in Chicago]

Here are some excerpts from Sullivans article this morning regarding Doug Whaley.

 

They can spin it any way they like. Benching Manuel at this stage of his career is an admission that he’s not cut out to be a franchise quarterback in the NFL, and that the Bills reached badly when they drafted him 16th overall two years ago.

.

 

http://bills.buffalo...ej-cant-cut-it/

 

Sullivan could have taken the opportunity to write an optimistic or even a cautiously optimistic article. Instead of giving credit to the coaching staff to make a tough decision, he proceeds to dig up all that he sees wrong and further pile on to the FO and coaching staff.

 

"As I understand it, personnel men around the NFL are still snickering at the deal." .

 

Really ?

 

First he complains about EJ and when the coaches make a surprisingly early decision to pull him, he still complains using points which are rather irrelevant to the current turn of events.

 

People here may agree with what he wrote because he is not technically wrong. But doom and gloom gets pretty boring and irritating.

[HansLanda]

I like whaley, but you don't spend 1.4B on something and then not put your own people in to run it. Of course, Pegs knows zippo about running an NFL franchise so maybe he'll pull a sabres and leave these guys in for a couple years.

 

Slightly agree. If you're a fracking billionaire that just laid down serious coin on anything, much less an NFL franchise, you hire your own people. Further, and because of the lessons learned with the Sabres, you do it right away.

 

Clean house. I don't think parting ways with Marrone/Hackett will have any real material affect on this team next year. The players are all professionals and have to learn new schemes all the time. And from all accounts Hackett's offense isn't exactly rocket science.

 

If, and only if, they make the playoffs then I'll change my tune.

Edited September 30, 2014 by HansLanda

[BillsBytheBay]

I can appreciate a leader who adresses and corrects his own mistakes. One whiff, on a position we are desperate at, doesn't negate the great team that Whaley has provided us. If QB's were an easy pick all the greats would have been top 5 picks.

Thank you swallowing your pride Bills Brass.

 

I was an EJ critic, but I am pulling for him. I hope this helps him out. If it does, we get two first round picks next year! (Kiko, EJ) here's to hoping!

[BuffaloBillsForever]

Sullivan could have taken the opportunity to write an optimistic or even a cautiously optimistic article. Instead of giving credit to the coaching staff to make a tough decision, he proceeds to dig up all that he sees wrong and further pile on to the FO and coaching staff.

 

"As I understand it, personnel men around the NFL are still snickering at the deal." .

 

Really ?

 

First he complains about EJ and when the coaches make a surprisingly early decision to pull him, he still complains using points which are rather irrelevant to the current turn of events.

 

People here may agree with what he wrote because he is not technically wrong. But doom and gloom gets pretty boring and irritating.

 

You mean like this?

 

But give Marrone credit. He made the move when it was time. He didn’t flinch. I suspect the head coach took the temperature of his locker room and realized that he might have an insurrection on his hands if his players felt he was allowing political considerations to compromise their playoff chances.

[Fan in Chicago]

You mean like this?

 

But give Marrone credit. He made the move when it was time. He didn’t flinch. I suspect the head coach took the temperature of his locker room and realized that he might have an insurrection on his hands if his players felt he was allowing political considerations to compromise their playoff chances.

 

Considering the part you originally quoted, I was not going to give Sullivan an extra click on his article. But thanks for the quote above. I still stand by my comments re: Sullivan

[Sisyphean Bills]

Sullivan could have taken the opportunity to write an optimistic or even a cautiously optimistic article. Instead of giving credit to the coaching staff to make a tough decision, he proceeds to dig up all that he sees wrong and further pile on to the FO and coaching staff.

 

"As I understand it, personnel men around the NFL are still snickering at the deal." .

 

Really ?

 

First he complains about EJ and when the coaches make a surprisingly early decision to pull him, he still complains using points which are rather irrelevant to the current turn of events.

 

People here may agree with what he wrote because he is not technically wrong. But doom and gloom gets pretty boring and irritating.

 

I'm curious. Why is that hard to understand or believe?

 

Benjamin, Cooks, Hurns, and Evans have all posted better numbers so far than Watkins. They only cost their respective teams one 1st round pick. I realize the numbers don't tell everything. To that, wasn't it Watkins that was dropping balls in the last game and the words "poorly thrown" being used? Seems like if you were going to spend two 1sts on a receiver to help a QB with accuracy issues -- issues that were talked about pre-draft -- you'd take the guy that could catch very poorly thrown balls, wouldn't it?

 

None of that really detracts from one's football woody for Sammy. Could he be a great player still? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean Whaley made a genius move here. Especially after Marrone has benched the guy the move was supposedly going to help the most.

[All_Pro_Bills]

Slightly agree. If you're a fracking billionaire that just laid down serious coin on anything, much less an NFL franchise, you hire your own people. Further, and because of the lessons learned with the Sabres, you do it right away.

 

Clean house. I don't think parting ways with Marrone/Hackett will have any real material affect on this team next year. The players are all professionals and have to learn new schemes all the time. And from all accounts Hackett's offense isn't exactly rocket science.

 

If, and only if, they make the playoffs then I'll change my tune.

The question with Pegula is who are 'his own people'? There's absolutely no guarantee TP is going to improve the situation by bringing in a completely new front office and coaching staff. Hopefully his first move will be to consult with some highly regarded personnel people like Polian. But I think Whaley has shown enough so far to warrant another season and I see a Bills team that is playing good ball minus the QB position. If we had gotten even average production from under center we'd be 3-1 for sure.

 

In a game of percentages he's had enough hits to overcome the strike outs. Still his handling of the QB situation and the thought process behind it warrants some questioning.

 

That said, I'll never understand what they saw in EJ that convinced them he was worthy of a #1 pick. By all accounts he was, and still is, a project with accuracy, mechanics, and decision making issues.

 

My expectation is that Orton, while being no savior here, is going to play good enough to allow the players around him to perform at a much higher level than what they've been capable of with Manuel running the offense. I expect we'll see some 100+ yard, 2 TD games out of Sammy during the remainder of the season. We'll see if Watkins turns out to be a generational talent worthy of the cost.

[Campy]

Pegula did not become a multi-billionaire by accepting status quo.

 

I would imagine he can appreciate that Marrone identified an area in need of improvement and addressed with the resources available to him.

[HansLanda]

The question with Pegula is who are 'his own people'? There's absolutely no guarantee TP is going to improve the situation by bringing in a completely new front office and coaching staff. Hopefully his first move will be to consult with some highly regarded personnel people like Polian. But I think Whaley has shown enough so far to warrant another season and I see a Bills team that is playing good ball minus the QB position. If we had gotten even average production from under center we'd be 3-1 for sure.

 

In a game of percentages he's had enough hits to overcome the strike outs. Still his handling of the QB situation and the thought process behind it warrants some questioning.

 

That said, I'll never understand what they saw in EJ that convinced them he was worthy of a #1 pick. By all accounts he was, and still is, a project with accuracy, mechanics, and decision making issues.

 

My expectation is that Orton, while being no savior here, is going to play good enough to allow the players around him to perform at a much higher level than what they've been capable of with Manuel running the offense. I expect we'll see some 100+ yard, 2 TD games out of Sammy during the remainder of the season. We'll see if Watkins turns out to be a generational talent worthy of the cost.

 

If nothing else they are making it easier on the Pegulas. No playoffs and everyone will be shown the door in the offseason. I also wonder what Russ Brandon will be doing in about 10 days from now.

[Fan in Chicago]

I'm curious. Why is that hard to understand or believe?

 

None of that really detracts from one's football woody for Sammy. Could he be a great player still? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean Whaley made a genius move here. Especially after Marrone has benched the guy the move was supposedly going to help the most.

 

That may be your opinion. But true "personnel men" in the NFL know not to judge a pick from the first 4 games of his career. They may disagree with Whaley's assessment but they are unlikely to 'snicker' at the choice.

[Sisyphean Bills]

That may be your opinion. But true "personnel men" in the NFL know not to judge a pick from the first 4 games of his career. They may disagree with Whaley's assessment but they are unlikely to 'snicker' at the choice.

 

I'll return the favor and point out that it is your opinion that other personnel men around the NFL do not snicker at deals their competition makes. I'm sure you are not going to contend that you know every personnel man in the NFL personally as well as what they are doing at all times.