EJ benched, Orton to start.

[Orton's Arm]

Typically.... you don't bench your starting QB for non-injury reasons when you're leading your division. Just like you don't bench your healthy, starting QB for the first game of the playoffs after he got you there. Good teams don't generally make those kinda moves.

 

I'm guessing that many of the media pundits complaining about Manuel's benching haven't watched the game tape. If they had, there would be considerably less confusion about why he was on the bench.

 

As for the Flutie benching: his 1999 season was considerably worse than 1998. Maybe part of that was because of the Moulds injury. Part may have been because defenses had learned that when you go against Flutie, you take away the short stuff and dare him to beat you deep.

 

Rob Johnson looked very good against the Colts. Even against the Titans, he played well enough for the Bills to take the lead with 16 seconds remaining. On any other team that would have been sufficient for victory! Unfortunately, it wasn't sufficient for victory with the Bills. The last time this team won a playoff game, Miley Cyrus was three years old; and the lead singer for Lorde hadn't even been conceived. This playoff drought has gone beyond ridiculous. Blowing first round picks on standard-issue bust-type QBs isn't helping any.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Edwards' Arm

[GG]

Hannah Montana and Lorde as references for the chronology?

[Garranimal]

What if that QB lost the only playoff game He played in for you?

did they bench Andre Reed or Eric Moulds who actually lost the playoff game?

[PromoTheRobot]

did they bench Andre Reed or Eric Moulds who actually lost the playoff game?

Lol. Who fumbled on the one yard line on the last play? The midget QB. Oh, but it wasn't his fault.

[YoloinOhio]

SB Nation NFL ‏@SBNationNFL 50s50 seconds ago

The Bills benched EJ Manuel. What does that mean for his NFL career? http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/10/3/6879867/ej-manuel-benching-bills-quarterback-kyle-orton …

[The Big Cat]

Hannah Montana and Lorde as references for the chronology?

 

[26CornerBlitz]

@TrendingBuffalo: Reality Check: Is EJ Manuel really a bust? http://www.trendingb...-bust/ …

 

E.J. Manuel has been a professional quarterback for a total of 20 regular season games. He’s started 14 of them.

 

The number of starts might be higher (possibly 6 higher) if not for his injuries.

 

It also might be lower (possibly 14 lower) if not for the injury suffered by Kevin Kolb last preseason.

 

Here are Manuel’s career statistics and his average game, rounded to whole numbers.

 

Not great. Not awful.

 

Medium.

 

These look a lot like the numbers that just about every young QB puts up when he’s getting his feet wet. Yet this performance has been a large enough body of work for some (many, even) to determine that Manuel “doesn’t have it.”

That’s dumb.

 

 

Edited October 3, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz

[Kelly the Dog]

They count games he wasn't even dressed for? He has been an NFL QB for 14 games. Not 20.

[Deranged Rhino]

They count games he wasn't even dressed for? He has been an NFL QB for 14 games. Not 20.

 

So, still a rookie, right?

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

So, still a rookie, right?

Lol. Two seasons. Fourteen games. Neither a rookie nor twenty game veteran.

[26CornerBlitz]

Here’s why Kyle Orton will start at QB on Sunday

by Chris Trapasso on September 30, 2014

 

My thoughts on the Buffalo Bills’ benching of EJ Manuel…

 

(Make sure you read Point No. 5)

[The Big Cat]

Can we PLEASE stop posting EJ's stats as if they offer any indication, whatsoever, to his level of play?

 

They don't. He doesn't find his receivers, he doesn't throw/run with authority, the offense has no rhythm when he's out there, the line breaks down when he holds it too long and he's left MANY yards/TD's on the field.

 

These things don't show up on the stat sheet, but we all know them to be true. And I don't think there's anyone out there that would argue that his performance is best reflected in the numbers. Because it's not.

[PromoTheRobot]

While EJ hasn't gotten enough starts for a full fair assessment, you have to be concerned at his seeming lack of feel for the game. Most rookies at least don't look like they've never been a football field before. Now part of that may be EJ being over-coached, trying to remember all the things all his coaches tell him to do and not to do. His play is tentative and overly cautious. Maybe if he was allowed to play his way he'd be better. I don't know. But right now, he's a boat anchor dragging the team down.

[Orton's Arm]

Hannah Montana and Lorde as references for the chronology?

 

I've read that the Bills haven't won a playoff game since Bill Clinton was president. While that's certainly true, it didn't seem to state things emphatically enough. There's been enough time since the Bills' last playoff win for someone to be conceived, born, grow up, and become famous.

 

So I started thinking of examples of young celebrities. I'm not great at keeping track of celebrities; so if you have better examples than the ones I've given, please share them. The Bills' last playoff win was in 1995; so you're looking for celebrities born around that time.

[Orton's Arm]

While EJ hasn't gotten enough starts for a full fair assessment, you have to be concerned at his seeming lack of feel for the game. Most rookies at least don't look like they've never been a football field before. Now part of that may be EJ being over-coached, trying to remember all the things all his coaches tell him to do and not to do. His play is tentative and overly cautious. Maybe if he was allowed to play his way he'd be better. I don't know. But right now, he's a boat anchor dragging the team down.

 

I once watched a documentary about Joe Montana. They pointed out that even in high school, he was a very accurate quarterback. They showed video footage of some of his high school play. At least on the plays they showed, he did an excellent job of throwing the ball with touch and accuracy. These were very catcheable, perfectly positioned passes.

 

There is the hope that Manuel will someday develop the touch and accuracy he hadn't displayed in college. Or that he'll develop the ability to process large amounts of on-field information quickly; despite the fact he'd been a one read QB in a simplified college offense.

 

It's easy to measure a QB's height, arm strength, or foot speed. Because these things are easily measured, physical limitations seem more real to most people than non-physical limitations. When people talk about a quarterback having a high "upside," what they often mean is, "This quarterback has great physical gifts. He'd be a really great football player if any non-physical limitations--accuracy, information processing ability, whatever--could simply be imagined away." Coaching and development time are seen as magic wands which can make non-physical limitations disappear.

 

"Good coaching" cannot cause a player's mental bandwidth to increase, any more than it can cause a player to grow two inches taller. While good coaching can fix mechanical issues which may have been impeding a QB's accuracy, it cannot take a naturally inaccurate passer and make him accurate. Invisible, non-physical limitations are just as real and just as insurmountable as those which can be measured with a stopwatch or tape measure.

[Tyrod's Tailor]

I've read that the Bills haven't won a playoff game since Bill Clinton was president. While that's certainly true, it didn't seem to state things emphatically enough. There's been enough time since the Bills' last playoff win for someone to be conceived, born, grow up, and become famous.

 

So I started thinking of examples of young celebrities. I'm not great at keeping track of celebrities; so if you have better examples than the ones I've given, please share them. The Bills' last playoff win was in 1995; so you're looking for celebrities born around that time.

 

TBD favorite Justin Bieber was born in 1994

[dave mcbride]

I'm guessing that many of the media pundits complaining about Manuel's benching haven't watched the game tape. If they had, there would be considerably less confusion about why he was on the bench.

 

As for the Flutie benching: his 1999 season was considerably worse than 1998. Maybe part of that was because of the Moulds injury. Part may have been because defenses had learned that when you go against Flutie, you take away the short stuff and dare him to beat you deep.

 

Rob Johnson looked very good against the Colts. Even against the Titans, he played well enough for the Bills to take the lead with 16 seconds remaining. On any other team that would have been sufficient for victory! Unfortunately, it wasn't sufficient for victory with the Bills. The last time this team won a playoff game, Miley Cyrus was three years old; and the lead singer for Lorde hadn't even been conceived. This playoff drought has gone beyond ridiculous. Blowing first round picks on standard-issue bust-type QBs isn't helping any.

 

Flutie played fairly well at the end of that season (84.8 rating, 7.3 ypa, and solid QB rushing numbers in his final 4 games, in which the Bills went 3-1), and bear in mind that in his worst game of the season - against a Ravens D that was a LOT better than people realized at the time - he was pretty miraculous at the end of the game.

 

Johnson performed poorly in the Titans game (64.8 rating plus taking 6 sacks including a safety) despite playing a very mediocre pass defense (25th in passing yards allowed, 20th in ypa allowed, and 27th in passing TDs allowed). I do realize that the line was banged up and shaky, but that simply made it more imperative to play Flutie.

Edited October 3, 2014 by dave mcbride

[Orton's Arm]

Flutie played well at the end of that season (look at the stats), and bear in mind that in his worst game of the season - against a Ravens D that was a LOT better than people realized at the time - he was pretty miraculous at the end of the game.

 

Johnson performed poorly -in the Titans game (again, look at the stats) despite playing a very mediocre pass defense. I do realize that the line was banged up, but that simply made it more imperative to play Flutie.

 

Let's say the Bills' offensive line was as good as the Cowboys' line from the mid '90s. And let's say our receiving corps was as good as the one we have. If I had to pick any post-Kelly Bills' QB to quarterback that team, I'd choose Rob Johnson. Johnson was probably the most accurate post-Kelly Bills' QB, at least for intermediate to deep passes. With a receiving corps like the one we have now, he would have had plenty of targets!

 

Unfortunately, during Johnson's time in Buffalo, the Bills had what had to have been one of the worst offensive lines in NFL history. Its best player was LG Ruben Brown, a Pro Bowler. No problem there. But its second-best player was LT John Fina; ranked about 28th among starting NFL LTs. There was a significant drop-off between Fina and the other three guys on the line. Guys which consisted of Jerry Ostroski, Corbin Lacina, and Jamie Nails. Flutie made that line look better than it was; Rob Johnson somehow managed to make it look even worse than it truly was.

 

During the Titans game, there were two times in the first half when one of their DEs (Jevon Kearse) ran untouched to the quarterback. (Once when lining up against the LT, once against the RT.) Both those times resulted in sacks; and one resulted in a fumble/turnover. I can't recall whether the Titans returned that fumble for a touchdown. Both the OTs were playing hurt; and both were replaced by their healthy backups after failing to touch Kearse as he raced past on his way to Johnson.

 

I felt that Johnson played poorly in the first half of the Titans game, and well in the second half. Bear in mind that the Bills were losing at the end of the first half; so all but the last 14 seconds of the second half represented a comeback.

 

Perhaps the correct solution--both for that game and games in general--would have been to go to a dual starter situation. Flutie would be the Bills' starter for the first halves of games; Johnson the starter for the second half. The rationale is that by the second half of a game you've worn out their pass rush to a degree. (Especially with Flutie running around back there.) Of the two, Flutie is the guy you want back there if the pocket is collapsing; Johnson is the one you want if the QB has time to throw. A dual starter situation would also force defensive coordinators to develop two different game plans; especially given the dramatic differences between the two QBs' playing styles.

 

> Johnson performed poorly -in the Titans game (again, look at the stats) despite playing a very mediocre pass defense.

 

This is the first time I've heard the Titans' pass defense described as mediocre. Both the Bills and Titans were considered to be stronger on defense than offense. Given that the Titans came one play away from winning a Super Bowl against a loaded Rams team, I'd think they were strong on both sides of the ball. But especially on defense.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Edwards' Arm

[PromoTheRobot]

Flutie played fairly well at the end of that season (84.8 rating, 7.3 ypa, and solid QB rushing numbers in his final 4 games, in which the Bills went 3-1), and bear in mind that in his worst game of the season - against a Ravens D that was a LOT better than people realized at the time - he was pretty miraculous at the end of the game.

 

Johnson performed poorly in the Titans game (64.8 rating plus taking 6 sacks including a safety) despite playing a very mediocre pass defense (25th in passing yards allowed and 27th in passing TDs allowed). I do realize that the line was banged up and shaky, but that simply made it more imperative to play Flutie.

 

I think your take of Flutie's play that year is colored by your fandom. My recollection of the Ravens game is Flutie was killing us and only the defense kept us close so Doug could make one freakin' play to win it, if that is what you mean by miraculous.

 

Maybe that's why they call him the "Magic Flutie?" His fans see no flaws in his play, ever. Any time he loses it's someone elses fault. Doug was great when he started, but like every new and shiny toy in the NFL the leagues gets film and catches up with you. Flutie's little "pixie hop" pass fake that would freeze defenders stopped working once defenses figured out his schtick.

 

And I think that's why Flutie got benched. He became less and less effective and he didn't have the size or skill to beat NFL defenses once his tricks stopped working. I also know that Flutie lost the Dolphins playoff game fumbling on the one yard line. If that were any other Bills QB that would earn them a lifetime of scorn and infamy. But since it's Flutie he gets a pass or people just blame others for the loss or forget all about it.

 

Just so I'm clear, I didn't care about RJ or Flutie. I wanted whoever would help us win. And all I know is when RJ left the field the Bills were winning. All they had to do is cover a freakin kickoff.

Edited October 3, 2014 by PromoTheRobot

[dave mcbride]

Let's say the Bills' offensive line was as good as the Cowboys' line from the mid '90s. And let's say our receiving corps was as good as the one we have. If I had to pick any post-Kelly Bills' QB to quarterback that team, I'd choose Rob Johnson. Johnson was probably the most accurate post-Kelly Bills' QB, at least for intermediate to deep passes. With a receiving corps like the one we have now, he would have had plenty of targets!

 

Unfortunately, during Johnson's time in Buffalo, the Bills had what had to have been one of the worst offensive lines in NFL history. Its best player was LG Ruben Brown, a Pro Bowler. No problem there. But its second-best player was LT John Fina; ranked about 28th among starting NFL LTs. There was a significant drop-off between Fina and the other three guys on the line. Guys which consisted of Jerry Ostroski, Corbin Lacina, and Jamie Nails. Flutie made that line look better than it was; Rob Johnson somehow managed to make it look even worse than it truly was.

 

During the Titans game, there were two times in the first half when one of their DEs (Jevon Kearse) ran untouched to the quarterback. (Once when lining up against the LT, once against the RT.) Both those times resulted in sacks; and one resulted in a fumble/turnover. I can't recall whether the Titans returned that fumble for a touchdown. Both the OTs were playing hurt; and both were replaced by their healthy backups after failing to touch Kearse as he raced past on his way to Johnson.

 

I felt that Johnson played poorly in the first half of the Titans game, and well in the second half. Bear in mind that the Bills were losing at the end of the first half; so all but the last 14 seconds of the second half represented a comeback.

 

Perhaps the correct solution--both for that game and games in general--would have been to go to a dual starter situation. Flutie would be the Bills' starter for the first halves of games; Johnson the starter for the second half. The rationale is that by the second half of a game you've worn out their pass rush to a degree. (Especially with Flutie running around back there.) Of the two, Flutie is the guy you want back there if the pocket is collapsing; Johnson is the one you want if the QB has time to throw. A dual starter situation would also force defensive coordinators to develop two different game plans; especially given the dramatic differences between the two QBs' playing styles.

 

> Johnson performed poorly -in the Titans game (again, look at the stats) despite playing a very mediocre pass defense.

 

This is the first time I've heard the Titans' pass defense described as mediocre. Both the Bills and Titans were considered to be stronger on defense than offense. Given that the Titans came one play away from winning a Super Bowl against a loaded Rams team, I'd think they were strong on both sides of the ball. But especially on defense.

 

See stats above (I modified my post). They were not a good pass defense. Against the Rams, that great pass D allowed Warner to win the Super Bowl MVP with a 99.7 rating for the game. The only reason they were in it is because they shut down the run (which they were good at during the regular season).

 

I think your take of Flutie's play that year is colored by your fandom. My recollection of the Ravens game is Flutie was killing us and only the defense kept us close so Doug could make one freakin' play to win it, if that is what you mean by miraculous.

 

Maybe that's why they call him the "Magic Flutie?" His fans see no flaws in his play, ever. Any time he loses it's someone elses fault. Doug was great when he started, but like every new and shiny toy in the NFL the leagues gets film and catches up with you. Flutie's little "pixie hop" pass fake that would freeze defenders stopped working once defenses figured out his schtick.

 

And I think that's why Flutie got benched. He became less and less effective and he didn't have the size or skill to beat NFL defenses once his tricks stopped working. I also know that Flutie lost the Dolphins playoff game fumbling on the one yard line. If that were any other Bills QB that would earn them a lifetime of scorn and infamy. But since it's Flutie he gets a pass or people just blame others for the loss or forget all about it.

 

Just so I'm clear, I didn't care about RJ or Flutie. I wanted whoever would help us win. And all I know is when RJ left the field the Bills were winning. All they had to do is cover a freakin kickoff.

It wasn't one play; it was a few. And I do agree he played badly in that game. The thing is, that defense was great and no one knew it yet. As for Johnson, he left the field with a lead, but the Bills had only scored 16 points against a mediocre pass D and a D that was 15th in points allowed (out of 30 teams) and 17th in yards allowed. There are a lot myths floating around about how good that Titans D was. The Rams put up 436 yards against them, which was 35 yards above their season average of 401.

 

And I'm not even really speaking as a Flutie fan - I was open at the time to the move. It was in 2000 that I realized that Flutie was simply a better player than Johnson. Basically, the facts (as I understand them) have shaped my perspective. If nothing else, the Flutie-Johnson debate opened my eyes to how important sack avoidance is for a QB. Far more often than I realized at the time, sacks fall on the QB's shoulders.

Edited October 3, 2014 by dave mcbride