A Dog Named Kelso Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 While I agree with the overall sentiment, I seriously doubt you or the general fan base would be happy with the bolded part. That is basically Fitz's Achilles Heel and we hated him for throwing INTs. Also, if they happen at inopportune moments, the guy can have gaudy stats and yet end up on the losing end. The basic problem with EJ in his last two games was not necessarily being risk averse - it was just that the guy couldn't see or hit guys who were wide open. If we won every game no one would care. Fitz's Achilles heel was that and the defense was horrible, force the team to loss games.
26CornerBlitz Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 If we won every game no one would care. Fitz's Achilles heel was that and the defense was horrible, force the team to loss games.
A Dog Named Kelso Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) Notice the score? Edited October 1, 2014 by A Dog Named Kelso
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 @Sportsnet: #Bills blew it benching Manuel. http://ow.ly/C9HDh " shhhhhhhhh they can't handle the truth
26CornerBlitz Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 Notice the score? Noted. It's still a horrendous decision and throw nonetheless
dave mcbride Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 I'm a Manuel supporter, but you can't look at just the stats. Look at how his confidence and accuracy has actually gotten worse as he got hit more and more. Those stats don't tell you what was happening to the other guys. Were they getting beat up as much, did they actually get worse or was there a steady climb game to game with an occasional bad game? This is one instance where stats don't tell the whole story, I hope he comes back next season better than ever. As I've said before, an 80 rating is the new Mendoza line for QBs. It used to be 70, but times have changed. Even with an 80.3 rating this year, he's 28th out of 34 listed QBs. And he's second worst overall in QBR, ahead of only the benched Chad Henne.
The Big Cat Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) While I agree with the overall sentiment, I seriously doubt you or the general fan base would be happy with the bolded part. That is basically Fitz's Achilles Heel and we hated him for throwing INTs. Also, if they happen at inopportune moments, the guy can have gaudy stats and yet end up on the losing end. The basic problem with EJ in his last two games was not necessarily being risk averse - it was just that the guy couldn't see or hit guys who were wide open. He couldn't see them because he was too afraid to look. His eyes don't go seven yards past the LOS. I know that seems like a wildly speculative reach, but how else do you account for it? If we won every game no one would care. Fitz's Achilles heel was that and the defense was horrible, force the team to loss games. Yeah, I reject Chicago's premise too. Fitz's achilles heel was the defense. Period. On this team, on last year's team, we're easily a playoff contender. Instead, just to keep pace with the opposition's weekly jail breaks, Fitz had to put up Stafford-like numbers to a receiving corps that had, among their starters, Donald !@#$ing Jones. He simply wasn't capable of that. And--as I argued then--only a handful of QB's in the league (then and now) were/are. Edited October 1, 2014 by The Big Cat
dave mcbride Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 shhhhhhhhh they can't handle the truth We can handle truth; we simply know that QB ratings have changed since the 1990s/early 2000s (much less the 70s). A 79 rating is horrible now. It was just mediocre to average in 1998 (Manning's first season). Compare, say, 1996 ( http://www.footballdb.com/stats/stats.html?yr=1996 ) to this season ( http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating ). As you'll see, the difference is staggering.
A Dog Named Kelso Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 Noted. It's still a horrendous decision and throw nonetheless I didn't say he doesn't throw picks, I included that is my post. What I said was if he won every game and threw picks no one would care. One of the reasons for those picks is he was almost always playing from behind(horrible defense).
26CornerBlitz Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 I didn't say he doesn't throw picks, I included that is my post. What I said was if he won every game and threw picks no one would care. One of the reasons for those picks is he was almost always playing from behind(horrible defense). That can be factored in as a part of the equation to be sure, but certainly not the primary reason for the ultimate Fitz failure in Buffalo.
A Dog Named Kelso Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 Yeah, I reject Chicago's premise too. Fitz's achilles heel was the defense. Period. On this team, on last year's team, we're easily a playoff contender. Instead, just to keep pace with the opposition's weekly jail breaks, Fitz had to put up Stafford-like numbers to a receiving corps that had, among their starters, Donald !@#$ing Jones. He simply wasn't capable of that. And--as I argued then--only a handful of QB's in the league (then and now) were/are. Totally on the same page, I really wish they kept him and chose EJ and let him learn behind Fitz. Letting Fitz go is the single biggest complaint I have with the current FO. I am hoping Orton fills that role. That can be factored in as a part of the equation to be sure, but certainly not the primary reason for the ultimate Fitz failure in Buffalo. I disagree. If Fitz had this team and last years team they make the Playoffs.
26CornerBlitz Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 Totally on the same page, I really wish they kept him and chose EJ and let him learn behind Fitz. Letting Fitz go is the single biggest complaint I have with the current FO. I am hoping Orton fills that role. I disagree. If Fitz had this team and last years team they make the Playoffs. I saw Fitz on Sunday in Houston and he's just not good enough. IMO, he's too limited as a QB to lead a team to the playoffs.
Kelly the Dog Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 Totally on the same page, I really wish they kept him and chose EJ and let him learn behind Fitz. Letting Fitz go is the single biggest complaint I have with the current FO. I am hoping Orton fills that role. I disagree. If Fitz had this team and last years team they make the Playoffs. I doubt last year's. We had no WR. And Spiller was hurt the whole year. Stevie was hurt the whole year, too. This year, probably. Orton is probably a wee bit better than Fitz.
The Big Cat Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 Totally on the same page, I really wish they kept him and chose EJ and let him learn behind Fitz. Letting Fitz go is the single biggest complaint I have with the current FO. I am hoping Orton fills that role. I disagree. If Fitz had this team and last years team they make the Playoffs. I still wonder whether Fitz rejected any offer to restructure. Because the dollars just didn't add up. I saw Fitz on Sunday in Houston and he's just not good enough. IMO, he's too limited as a QB to lead a team to the playoffs. Well, he led the offense to 16 points, and with 14 yards, he was their leading rusher. So...seemed like the passing game--at least--was "good enough." I doubt last year's. We had no WR. And Spiller was hurt the whole year. Stevie was hurt the whole year, too. This year, probably. Orton is probably a wee bit better than Fitz. KC, CIN, NE @ home--there are three games we could have/should have won, all in-conference, that would have given us a record that would have put us in the playoffs. Those three games were started by three different players. Replace any of them with Fitz, and it's a no-brainer, I think. If Orton is AS GOOD as Fitz (again, not a tall order), then I'll be very, very happy (see previous posts in this thread and others).
26CornerBlitz Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 Well, he led the offense to 16 points, and with 14 yards, he was their leading rusher. So...seemed like the passing game--at least--was "good enough." Fitz was certainly not "good enough". He can give thanks to JJ Watt and all of the missed opportunities by EJ and the Bills offense. With competent NFL quarterbacking from the Bills last Sunday, the game is not even close. Fitz isn't good enough as an NFL starter, end of story. Does rehash really taste that good?
A Dog Named Kelso Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 I still wonder whether Fitz rejected any offer to restructure. Because the dollars just didn't add up. If he did they still should have kept them on his old contract(tried and failed). How much more have they spent on the QB position because they let him go? It really makes no sense at all. Plus all the cap space he ate up anyway. Fitz was certainly not "good enough". He can give thanks to JJ Watt and all of the missed opportunities by EJ and the Bills offense. With competent NFL quarterbacking from the Bills last Sunday, the game is not even close. Fitz isn't good enough as an NFL starter, end of story. Does rehash really taste that good? One could argue if only competent QB play was needed to win that game(which I do agree with) then their defense is not that good. Thus back to the original premise.
The Big Cat Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 Fitz was certainly not "good enough". He can give thanks to JJ Watt and all of the missed opportunities by EJ and the Bills offense. With competent NFL quarterbacking from the Bills last Sunday, the game is not even close. Fitz isn't good enough as an NFL starter, end of story. Does rehash really taste that good? Well, his team is 3-1. For better or worse, the guy can keep you in games. He can give you a shot to win. EJ got benched for not having this capacity, IMO.
Kelly the Dog Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 KC, CIN, NE @ home--there are three games we could have/should have won, all in-conference, that would have given us a record that would have put us in the playoffs. Those three games were started by three different players. Replace any of them with Fitz, and it's a no-brainer, I think. If Orton is AS GOOD as Fitz (again, not a tall order), then I'll be very, very happy (see previous posts in this thread and others). It depends on which Fitz you got. The Fitz of 2012 was TERRIBLE. The Fitz of 2011 I would agree with you. Last year he was extremely erratic and prone to bonehead plays. For all his smarts he gets way too much credit for them on the football field and I like Fitz. If you get the Fitz of last week I would agree with you. But then again the defenses of KC, CIN, NE are not going to play the same games.
26CornerBlitz Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 Well, his team is 3-1. For better or worse, the guy can keep you in games. He can give you a shot to win. EJ got benched for not having this capacity, IMO. Wins over Oak, Jax, and a gift from the Bills. Not impressed!
The Big Cat Posted October 1, 2014 Posted October 1, 2014 Wins over Oak, Jax, and a gift from the Bills. Not impressed! Well, he's got four games against JAX and TEN to look forward to, also. And he's got-arguably-the best player in the NFL on his team. So, they got at least three more wins coming their way, IMO.
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