He is who they said he was

[zow2]

You don't let Whaley walk. That's just dumb. But I'm not going to discuss the reasons on this thread....

[ko12010]

4th round? Really? Common, I know EJ has had poor play but that kid wouldn't have lasted past the early second round. My point being is that much of this chest pounding is directed toward Doug Whaley unfairly. He has put alot of talent on this roster since 2013. To call for his head is absolutely ignorant.

Agreed. I think he has been borderline fantastic.

[Webster Guy]

 

 

4th round? Really? Common, I know EJ has had poor play but that kid wouldn't have lasted past the early second round. My point being is that much of this chest pounding is directed toward Doug Whaley unfairly. He has put alot of talent on this roster since 2013. To call for his head is absolutely ignorant.

agreed. Whaley is the bright spot here. Marrone might have made it as a HC if he hadn't brought in an OC with zero NFL experience.

 

on the road, playing a weak run defense, inaccurate qb, horrible pass protection with 2 rooks in a loud environment and 2 stud runners in our backfield, our boy Hackett calls 44 pass plays. Freddy only gets SEVEN rushes all game.

 

Joke.

[CountDorkula]

I have defended EJ time and time again, saying give him time. Yesterday was the first time I had some doubt.

[harv shitz]

for months before the 2013 draft i pumped up Mike Glennon as being the best QB in that draft. I wanted him as a Bill. People here laughed. all he does is stand in there and make plays when needed. Rarely does he lose them a game. now we are stuck with EJ and once again i hate being right. ugh. We got maybe the wrost QB of the past 2 drafts. I think even Geno with all his flaws has more potential. This dude here could throw 50 times and still not rack up 300 yds in a game.

I'm right there with ya, I was preaching for Glennon, too, and nobody wanted to hear it. Another wasted #1 pick by good ole Buddy Nix! NEVER should have used a first round pick on Manuel, he likely would have been there in the second or third round.

[PaattMaann]

 

 

Whaley's responsible for not just the Manuel pick, but eschewing veteran options this year when it was clear Manuel wasn't ready. Strategically, they haven't handled the QB position well, i.e. finding a veteran, unless you believe the narrative Kolb was brought in to start last year.

 

Throw in the revolving door post-Levitre at LG. The Kouandjio pick which isn't looking good. And the book still isn't complete, because Watkins may well turn out to be a great pro...but giving up a 1st rounder pick to move up 5 spots for a team without a QB sure looks more foolish with each EJ incompletion.

 

It's the entire strategy behind this team. They may have more talent but they're not much better in the W column either and there's an overhaul necessary. It doesn't help Whaley's case that he was Nix's top assistant from 2010-2012 when they bungled everything on their way to winning one-third of their games.

 

Your first part is all related to Whaleys assessment of EJ - which I already stipulated might be a big blunder of his (if it turns out to truly be a blunder). When trying to establish a rookie QB as a franchise guy, you don't go bring in other QBs to take the job from him - you bring him along and let him develop into the guy you HOPE he is going to be....so his handling of EJ is a moot point right now

 

And yes I said the guard position on this team sucks a fatty - they did try by bringing in Chris Williams - what were the other options? We're there other great FA guards? I honestly don't recall what more we could have done in the circumstances....but this is the one huge area that needs addressing

 

Other than that - you cannot seriously argue that Whaley has been anything but awesome as a GM. Koudndijo may yet turn out to be a solid pro, we won't know that yet. Hitting on a 7th round pick already is pretty awesome. Preston Brown looks like a gamer. Yes he traded up for Watkins but if you think that was stupid then I can't argue with you on that - he got a playmaker that is rare in the NFL (again, getting weapons for a guy you are HOPING is the franchise QB, and even if he's not, any QB needs playmakers and Watkins already looks special).

 

And when he was buddy's "top assistant" - they also had solid drafts and remade a roster that was pure and total **** before they got here

 

Bottom line is: if you think Whaley needs to go, your not really "football smart"

[Thunderstealer]

This is what kills me, as well. I thought we were getting a dual threat guy, who could run. Fitz actually is a lot more mobile, as he showed yesterday. Fitz is also more accurate, which is crazy, since inaccuracy was part of the reason we replaced him.

Another big reason was the 10 mill to be awarded to him.

[zow2]

I'm right there with ya, I was preaching for Glennon, too, and nobody wanted to hear it. Another wasted #1 pick by good ole Buddy Nix! NEVER should have used a first round pick on Manuel, he likely would have been there in the second or third round.

 

Yup, just typical Buffalo move. We end up with the worst QB from that draft. Seriously, they could have Ponder here and he would manage a game better than EJ.

[BillsVet]

Your first part is all related to Whaleys assessment of EJ - which I already stipulated might be a big blunder of his (if it turns out to truly be a blunder). When trying to establish a rookie QB as a franchise guy, you don't go bring in other QBs to take the job from him - you bring him along and let him develop into the guy you HOPE he is going to be....so his handling of EJ is a moot point right now

 

Bottom line is: if you think Whaley needs to go, your not really "football smart"

 

There's a GM who drafted a QB in the middle of the first round about 10 years ago, the guy went bust, and that GM still has his job. His name is Ozzie Newsome and he's one of the best in the business. Newsome signed Steve McNair for a couple years and then hit on Flacco in 2008, which has been a solid choice.

 

Unfortunately, Whaley is not in the same situation where there's ownership consistency such as Baltimore has had for years. A new owner may not be so patient, and that's entirely reasonable seeing as how that owner just plunked down 1.4B.

 

I think Whaley will go and it's because he's not made enough solid decisions. This season may well bear that out, but I'll yield that his predecessor did him no favors with even more bad decisions which impacted both this and last season.

[PaattMaann]

 

 

There's a GM who drafted a QB in the middle of the first round about 10 years ago, the guy went bust, and that GM still has his job. His name is Ozzie Newsome and he's one of the best in the business. Newsome signed Steve McNair for a couple years and then hit on Flacco in 2008, which has been a solid choice.

 

Unfortunately, Whaley is not in the same situation where there's ownership consistency such as Baltimore has had for years. A new owner may not be so patient, and that's entirely reasonable seeing as how that owner just plunked down 1.4B.

 

I think Whaley will go and it's because he's not made enough solid decisions. This season may well bear that out, but I'll yield that his predecessor did him no favors with even more bad decisions which impacted both this and last season.

 

Whaley is highly regarded around the league - if Pegula comes in and dumps Whaley it will be an extremely dumb move and further set this franchise back

 

I hope Pegs isn't that stupid

[BuffOrange]

This pick was also made by the fans. Lets face it NIX and Whaley made this pick because the fan base was clamoring for anyone but Fitz. Does Whaley get a pass because he got Kiko in round 2? Or Half of our starting defense in the mid rounds. Whaley is one of the only bright spots in this organization. Dont start calling for Whaley cause he picked a project QB

seriously? The fans were "clamoring" for a QB way before they reached for a 4th round project in the first. fans have been clamorong for a QB since Kelly hung them up. They have missed every single time before this disaster. This is nothing new at all. Pick a project in year when there are no QB's in the draft worth anything. Put a uniform on him and roll him out. Thanks Nix (2x). With the sales pitch that physically he is prototypical QB. it simply doesn't work that way.

 

Blaming the fans is a new one, even for the apologists on here.

 

If the fans have that much impact on our personnel decisions, can we start a petition to draft two or three QB's every single year until we find one that can play - because nothing else matters until you do that?

 

Granted this would involve swinging and missing on a few Jimmy Clausens in the 2nd round and missing out on the greatness of Torrell Troup leading us to all those playoff games and division titles. But at least we can move on from him after a year rather than wasting multiple years pretending he can play. And we're not stuck pigeon-holing ourselves in a year when there is no 1st round talent available (which was acknowledge by Nix on tape); and then trading away another future 1st round pick in a futile attempt to help make him look competent.

 

Butnaah lets just ignore the most important position and put all our eggs in these JP/EJ baskets, and then blame the doom&gloom TBD posters when it doesn't work!

[cjatcreek07]

In my opinion Whaley is the only person in the front office who has done enough to keep his job. He actually built a pretty strong team with nice depth, and I know we are missing an elite qb but so are 2/3 of the teams in this league.

[PaattMaann]

In my opinion Whaley is the only person in the front office who has done enough to keep his job. He actually built a pretty strong team with nice depth, and I know we are missing an elite qb but so are 2/3 of the teams in this league.

 

Absolutely

 

Russ Brandon can keep his job too - he does well in his business role

[GG]

Your first part is all related to Whaleys assessment of EJ - which I already stipulated might be a big blunder of his (if it turns out to truly be a blunder). When trying to establish a rookie QB as a franchise guy, you don't go bring in other QBs to take the job from him - you bring him along and let him develop into the guy you HOPE he is going to be....so his handling of EJ is a moot point right now

 

But EJ was far from ready to be a starter. Even his ardent supporters (which I was early last year) admit he was a raw project. In that case, you bring the guy up slowly, and don't pretend that playoffs is a goal. The other irony is that instead of giving up picks to get the best WR in the draft, you move heaven & earth to add a TE who can better help your project QB.

 

BTW, has EJ had the requisite 16 games yet for people to stop calling him a rookie?

[PaattMaann]

 

 

But EJ was far from ready to be a starter. Even his ardent supporters (which I was early last year) admit he was a raw project. In that case, you bring the guy up slowly, and don't pretend that playoffs is a goal. The other irony is that instead of giving up picks to get the best WR in the draft, you move heaven & earth to add a TE who can better help your project QB.

 

BTW, has EJ had the requisite 16 games yet for people to stop calling him a rookie?

 

He was the best option on the team at the time...and we did/are bringing him along slowly....and up until this week I would have said what we have been seeing is growing pains - but yesterday was outright terrible passing

 

As to your point about a dynamic TE over WR - that would be a nice thing to have, but that has no merit here because there was not a TE to fit that description in the draft, nor are there ever TEs like that in the draft - getting playmakers for your QB is always a good idea, and Sammy is a playmaker

 

People need to understand franchise QBs don't grow on trees and when you THINK have one, you give them a long leash and hope they develop....but again, my point was that Whaley has done nothing but improve this team since he got here and I'm in full support of him, regardless on if EJ fails or not

 

 

[Green Lightning]

Here's what a lot of you are missing: we literally change the dynamic of the offense when putting Orton in. There is no more defensive fear of him running the ball. We will have to go right back to the west coast offense. It will be a shiny penny for a week or two.

 

Defenses aren't worried about EJ running because he doesn't. I would easily trade the running threat for a QB that can make basic throws and see open receivers.

[Chandler#81]

 

 

 

This pick was also made by the fans. Lets face it NIX and Whaley made this pick because the fan base was clamoring for anyone but Fitz. Does Whaley get a pass because he got Kiko in round 2? Or Half of our starting defense in the mid rounds. Whaley is one of the only bright spots in this organization. Dont start calling for Whaley cause he picked a project QB

 

While drafting a young QB to groom was necessary, no, 'the fans' didn't nor ever make the pick. I still contend that bogus phone call some prankster DJ's made that caught Nix dissing Fitz made Fitz decide NOT to renegotiate his contract -which was near the top of the FO's off season agenda. Bills felt forced to release Fitz, who was expected to tutor a reasonable draft selection in a year where there were no clear cut top prospects. Thus, the mess were in.

[BrooklynBills]

 

 

Your first part is all related to Whaleys assessment of EJ - which I already stipulated might be a big blunder of his (if it turns out to truly be a blunder). When trying to establish a rookie QB as a franchise guy, you don't go bring in other QBs to take the job from him - you bring him along and let him develop into the guy you HOPE he is going to be....so his handling of EJ is a moot point right now

 

And yes I said the guard position on this team sucks a fatty - they did try by bringing in Chris Williams - what were the other options? We're there other great FA guards? I honestly don't recall what more we could have done in the circumstances....but this is the one huge area that needs addressing

 

Other than that - you cannot seriously argue that Whaley has been anything but awesome as a GM. Koudndijo may yet turn out to be a solid pro, we won't know that yet. Hitting on a 7th round pick already is pretty awesome. Preston Brown looks like a gamer. Yes he traded up for Watkins but if you think that was stupid then I can't argue with you on that - he got a playmaker that is rare in the NFL (again, getting weapons for a guy you are HOPING is the franchise QB, and even if he's not, any QB needs playmakers and Watkins already looks special).

 

And when he was buddy's "top assistant" - they also had solid drafts and remade a roster that was pure and total **** before they got here

 

Bottom line is: if you think Whaley needs to go, your not really "football smart"

 

Whaley has been far from awesome in the GM role. He's missed on the most important position in the game. And he's had two off-seasons to find 1 guard who can play and he's missed there as well. TE depth anyone?

 

What about not even interviewing Mike McCoy for HC job? Or should I say cancelling their interview with McCoy so they could hire Marrone.

 

How bout the top 10 pick we gave up in next year's draft?

 

I like Whaley, but I would not say he has been awesome as a GM. But then again when your following the Nix/Brandon/Levy era, I guess the bar is set pretty low.

[GG]

He was the best option on the team at the time...and we did/are bringing him along slowly....and up until this week I would have said what we have been seeing is growing pains - but yesterday was outright terrible passing

 

As to your point about a dynamic TE over WR - that would be a nice thing to have, but that has no merit here because there was not a TE to fit that description in the draft, nor are there ever TEs like that in the draft - getting playmakers for your QB is always a good idea, and Sammy is a playmaker

 

People need to understand franchise QBs don't grow on trees and when you THINK have one, you give them a long leash and hope they develop....but again, my point was that Whaley has done nothing but improve this team since he got here and I'm in full support of him, regardless on if EJ fails or not

 

His big whiff on the QB position and then doubling down on the experiment wouldn't qualify as improving the team, which still hasn't been able to attain Jauron-like consistent 7 wins.

 

As for the growing pains, tell me where has EJ improved since his opening game against NE?

[PaattMaann]

Whaley has been far from awesome in the GM role. He's missed on the most important position in the game. And he's had two off-seasons to find 1 guard who can play and he's missed there as well. TE depth anyone?

 

What about not even interviewing Mike McCoy for HC job? Or should I say cancelling their interview with McCoy so they could hire Marrone.

 

How bout the top 10 pick we gave up in next year's draft?

 

I like Whaley, but I would not say he has been awesome as a GM. But then again when your following the Nix/Brandon/Levy era, I guess the bar is set pretty low.

 

yes, every GM is always perfect on every decision they have made

 

as for guard, please see previous posts in the thread...who was available in the guard free agency market that would have helped us? Im honestly asking this because I cannot recall...he attempted to help the position with Chris Williams (who has been injured/not played well) and drafted Richardson (too early to tell if he is a fix) - but I agree this is a huge issue, but every team has issues

 

TE Depth, also agree on - theres nothing behind Chandler bc Gragg has not seemed to figure it out

 

As for his "missing on the most important position in the game" - im not QUITE ready to classify EJ as a miss - its certainly trending that way, he looks like he cannot complete even the most routine passes - but thats the nature of the NFL - you HAVE TO draft and develop your franchise QB, which takes time and most often results in failure, but you have to try or you will never have one

 

What Whaley has done is drastically improve the talent, top to bottom on the roster - trading Hughes for a schmuck, adding great D-line depth that have all contributed, revamped the LB corp and developed whats there, adding Corey Graham, replacing Byrd (quite adequately BTW), remade the WRs from a bunch of "walk ons" to a group that I think oozes talent and potential, solidified the T spots for years to come, added depth to RBs and brought in players who shine on special teams...its truly a fantastic job, but haters gonna hate

 

His big whiff on the QB position and then doubling down on the experiment wouldn't qualify as improving the team, which still hasn't been able to attain Jauron-like consistent 7 wins.

 

As for the growing pains, tell me where has EJ improved since his opening game against NE?

 

see above as for his "whiff" on the QB spot - isnt 100 percent whiff, but looks like it, and you HAVE to try

 

As far as "doubling down" - I have nothing to say if you disagree about Watkins, kids a dynamic playmaker who will help the team (regardless of who is at QB) for years to come, a game changer...

 

EJs "growing pains" as I called them, I admitted after seeing sundays stinker - maybe I was wrong about his previous bad throws/games being growing pains, and maybe he just flat out cannot accurately throw a football with any consistency....but were gonna most likely get the rest of the season to find out...

Edited September 29, 2014 by PaattMaann