dave mcbride Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 (edited) I get the offense was bad. Especially frustrating because we could have won by running more. But, hypothetically here, say PI is called on EJ's pick at the end of the game, like it should have been. Hypothetically, say he throws a TD to win the game one play later. That's one play different than what we saw. By all accounts, still a horrible game for EJ. However, we wouldn't have nearly as much pessimism, because of the win. The missed receivers, tipped passes, late throws, etc. would be an afterthought. EJ is a young QB. Our coaches are a young staff. Both need to improve drastically. That being said, it does the franchise no good firing coaches or benching our 1st round QB at this point. EJ has potential. Our coaches have potential to be great. They need the opportunity to learn from mistakes and take that next step. Don't get me wrong. I would love to win now. Orton could maybe provide this. Maybe not. I'm more interested in finding consistency to win for years. EJ needs to play so we can determine if he is part of the future. Also, we'll make the playoffs this year. Corey graham committed interference at the end of game 1. They don't call it as much in the last minute, which is as it should be. Edited September 29, 2014 by dave mcbride
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 Fantastic post, BuffaninATL ... I would add only this: EJ was drafted because he was going to be a mobile quarterback. He showed today that he is less mobile than even Fitz. Longest run this year? 8 yards. I don't know if he's hurting, if he's scared he'll get hurt, or if he's simply been overcoached/cautioned into paralysis, but I do know you can't win when you're that tentative. Not really. no.
bbb Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 When are we going to be assessed that excessive time out?
DisplacedBillsFan Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 Corey graham committed interference at the end of game 1. They don't call it as much in the last minute, which is as it should be. Completely agree. I was by no means advocating for the PI to be called there. Simply using the situation as a basis to provide a comparison for the exact same game with one different throw.
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 When are we going to be assessed that excessive time out? That was weird right? I got what I felt was an excessive time out after slugging my brother once.
BuffaninATL Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 I'll say it again about the coaches -- receivers were wide open all game. The coaches pu them in position. They can't throw the ball though. They're getting a bum rap because the qb is staggeringly inaccurate. sorry, I should have been more specific and used examples; like others have mentioned, the play-calling in particular. Against, a run-porous Houston D, why did Hackett call 44 pass plays? It's not like the Bills were behind by alot at any point in the game. How about a pass play from their own 1 yd line when EJ is clearly struggling? Why the insistence on running CJ up the middle? How about trying to find a way to get CJ/Sammy the ball in space? Our offense is so predictable it's a joke. I could go on but I hope you get my drift.
boyst Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 When are we going to be assessed that excessive time out? what is this in reference to. I listened to the game and might have missed it.
The Frankish Reich Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 EJ was drafted because he was going to be a mobile quarterback. Not really. no. How so? If I remember correctly the read option was kind of the base offense at the start of the 2013 season, until EJ struggled mightily ... and then it was pretty much cast aside after his knee injury in Cleveland.
BuffaninATL Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 Fantastic post, BuffaninATL ... I would add only this: EJ was drafted because he was going to be a mobile quarterback. He showed today that he is less mobile than even Fitz. Longest run this year? 8 yards. I don't know if he's hurting, if he's scared he'll get hurt, or if he's simply been overcoached/cautioned into paralysis, but I do know you can't win when you're that tentative. thank you, and I agree with you. It seems like he throws when he clearly has room to run, and when he does run he seems to be unaware of down/distance
Orton's Arm Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 I get the offense was bad. Especially frustrating because we could have won by running more. But, hypothetically here, say PI is called on EJ's pick at the end of the game, like it should have been. Hypothetically, say he throws a TD to win the game one play later. That's one play different than what we saw. By all accounts, still a horrible game for EJ. However, we wouldn't have nearly as much pessimism, because of the win. The missed receivers, tipped passes, late throws, etc. would be an afterthought. EJ is a young QB. Our coaches are a young staff. Both need to improve drastically. That being said, it does the franchise no good firing coaches or benching our 1st round QB at this point. EJ has potential. Our coaches have potential to be great. They need the opportunity to learn from mistakes and take that next step. Don't get me wrong. I would love to win now. Orton could maybe provide this. Maybe not. I'm more interested in finding consistency to win for years. EJ needs to play so we can determine if he is part of the future. Also, we'll make the playoffs this year. > EJ has potential. The sooner this mirage is abandoned, the better. The two most important traits a QB can have are accuracy and fast information processing speed. Manuel demonstrated neither trait in college. Nor has he done so in the NFL. There is nothing which remotely suggests he has "potential"--at least not for the two traits which matter most. Yes, he has very good physical traits. The NFL is littered with physically gifted first round busts. Also, if you make a list of the best QBs in the league today--Manning, Brees, Brady, Rodgers--how many of those guys have great physical tools? Those guys are Hall of Fame material not because they're the biggest or fastest or strongest; but because they're the most accurate and the best at processing information quickly. Nothing about Manuel's college play suggests he should have been chosen in the first or second round. He did nothing, demonstrated nothing, which would cause a competently-run football team to commit to him as "the plan." The solution is not to replace Manuel. The solution is to replace the people who chose Manuel. Anyone who would make worse decisions than those I would make has absolutely no business running the front office of an NFL football team. None.
mead107 Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 Even I am starting to wonder about our quarterback I've had a lot of faith in EJ. Not accurate not getting the ball out Quick enough. Had is the word
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 Not really. no. How so? If I remember correctly the read option was kind of the base offense at the start of the 2013 season, until EJ struggled mightily ... and then it was pretty much cast aside after his knee injury in Cleveland. I think the idea that he can move is supposed to be a part of the picture but they've been pretty clear that they want him to be a pocket passer. I am not saying I think that's the best idea -- I think it's actually causing him to be less instinctive and to overthink his play -- but they really were preaching fast-pace, three-step drops, not a lot of read option.
A Dog Named Kelso Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 Im not against the benching......but just understand people that if Orton comes in and also sucks.....your not going back to EJ this year...... Benching him will probably crush whatever confidence he has left....he will literally need to be biult back up in practice If he is that mentally weak he is not a NFL QB. I do not know why anyone would use that as an argument.
The Frankish Reich Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 I think the idea that he can move is supposed to be a part of the picture but they've been pretty clear that they want him to be a pocket passer. I am not saying I think that's the best idea -- I think it's actually causing him to be less instinctive and to overthink his play -- but they really were preaching fast-pace, three-step drops, not a lot of read option. Agreed. I think he will start against Detroit, and I'm hoping that he just cuts loose and tries to make things happen. That was when EJ really gave us a spark of optimism last year, including that Cleveland game where he got hurt. Bills defense will not shut down the Lions -- they'll have to put points on the board, and ultra conservative "play not to make a mistake" stuff will result in a very boring loss.
DC Greg Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 You should nuke some popcorn and go back to that 6-3 Browns game. That was what... week 15? Give knee j 11 more weeks. I have confidence we can get there. I billieve... sry just puked on a bay as i said that. I get the offense was bad. Especially frustrating because we could have won by running more. But, hypothetically here, say PI is called on EJ's pick at the end of the game, like it should have been. Hypothetically, say he throws a TD to win the game one play later. That's one play different than what we saw. By all accounts, still a horrible game for EJ. However, we wouldn't have nearly as much pessimism, because of the win. The missed receivers, tipped passes, late throws, etc. would be an afterthought. EJ is a young QB. Our coaches are a young staff. Both need to improve drastically. That being said, it does the franchise no good firing coaches or benching our 1st round QB at this point. EJ has potential. Our coaches have potential to be great. They need the opportunity to learn from mistakes and take that next step. Don't get me wrong. I would love to win now. Orton could maybe provide this. Maybe not. I'm more interested in finding consistency to win for years. EJ needs to play so we can determine if he is part of the future. Also, we'll make the playoffs this year. Dude. You are right in the sense that it would mask the real problem for another week. We'd toast being 3-1 and talk about those wacky Bills. Fact is we'd be lying to ourselves, just like i lied to myself after we beat the fish. Complete domination on both sides of the ball for a half... 3 field goals. The problems with this offense and quarterback are deeper than you care tp admit. It's really, really bad. At it's core, the best EJ can do is not lose us the game. He will never win it.
A Dog Named Kelso Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 EJ was done the moment the Bills reached for him in the first round. He's been set up to fail from the beginning. He should've never been taken in the first round nor been starting from day 1. Regardless of injuries. He is what he's always been, a mediocre player. Seems like a great guy and I feel a little sorry for him because the Fans and Media are going to roast him. Management is to blame for all of this but what else is new? No I think that he was a project that they have been rushing along. He has never not "been the guy". They should have gotten a vet in the off season to push EJ and have a real competition. He was not suppose to be the starter last year and was only pushed into service because Kolb's injury.
Coach Tuesday Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 I'll say it again about the coaches -- receivers were wide open all game. The coaches pu them in position. They can't throw the ball though. They're getting a bum rap because the qb is staggeringly inaccurate. And I am saying that the coaches may have caused him to develop The Yips with the situation they have put him in.
A Dog Named Kelso Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 Fantastic post, BuffaninATL ... I would add only this: EJ was drafted because he was going to be a mobile quarterback. He showed today that he is less mobile than even Fitz. Longest run this year? 8 yards. I don't know if he's hurting, if he's scared he'll get hurt, or if he's simply been overcoached/cautioned into paralysis, but I do know you can't win when you're that tentative. Fitz has always been a mobile quarterback, I do not know what that statement is suppose to imply. He has almost 1500 yards rushing for his career.
The Frankish Reich Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 Fitz has always been a mobile quarterback, I do not know what that statement is suppose to imply. He has almost 1500 yards rushing for his career. Just that I imagine any club drafting a younger/bigger/faster quarterback is probably assuming that QB mobility will increase, not decrease.
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 29, 2014 Posted September 29, 2014 Frankly, you don't know me. And I don't know you. But I know a little bit about mental toughness and leadership from experience being tested in a third world country. The way an individual responds when they're down is important. I don't expect EJ to stand up and say he stunk, but I don't expect sulking either. Leadership is something that becomes infectious to an organization, good or bad. And I believe his teammates are watching their QB get down, which can be a huge negative in that locker room. A mentality coach isn't going to resolve this issue either. I'm not going to speak to your experience. It's terrific that you've found the things that you feel make you and others mentally strong and tough. I'm only going to say that I think it's a mistake to suggest that there is only one path there, and that it is a trait that can't be developed. Feeling down about your work is a natural situation and it can be addressed. I don't think it's coddling, it's just another part of coaching. BTW, let's call up some Brady sulking photos, because they refute your point, but also because they are always funny.
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