A Few Thoughts About The Game, in no particular order.....

[John from Riverside]

can I just ask one question here that I dont see asked.....

 

Lets say we DID have our 1st round pick next year.

 

What QB do you think we would get? Because having our 1st round pick has not worked for us in prior drafts trying to get a QB

[dave mcbride]

I appreciate where you're coming from here but their lack of coaching pedigree notwithstanding, the design of the offense, from what little I can gather on TV and the All-22, appears to be pretty good actually. Hackett's pass-play designs usually have two guys running open and at depths that just reasonable protection would allow to be completed. Granted, the last two weeks the OLine hasn't done a great job with pressure up the middle and perhaps EJ is playing rattled, but that's no excuse to be impatient when plays are there to be made. Not to mention how this is compounded when he DOES attempt an intermediate route to wide open receivers and misses completely. Either way, he's playing scared for the first time that I've observed and that's far worse than playing not to screw up.

 

If our QB needs everything else to be clicking perfectly (protection, no drops, correct routes, etc.) in order to be successful, when there is absolutely NO margin for error, then we are living in a fantasy world. The QB position is defined by overcoming adversity and EJ appears, for the first time to me anyway, to be shying away from it instead of meeting it head on. That moxie is the single-most important trait I need to see in a QB and I'm worried that EJ has lost that.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Nice post. I agree.

[MichFan]

Mike Williams not so subtly calls out staff for adjusting too late.

 

"We adjusted a little too late. They were playing press man, and we kept getting calls for zone. When that happens things tend not to work."

 

http://www.buffalobi...bb-c911b4607d09

Wow. This actually makes me rethink my strong desire to see EJ sit because it doesn't matter who the QB is if the playcalling is being made by someone with his head up his a_ _. Maybe the disgusted looks from Williams and Wood had more to do with Hackett than Manuel. If Hackett is really this bad, the season is screwed so what does it matter...

[K-9]

the field has been around for 15 to 20 years depending on who you ask. whatever did athletes do before sports psychologists were available? where are the results? there are so many variables in sports performance (especially team sports) that it would be impossible to measure the results. additionally, you're unlikely to hear of the failures near as often as the successes. i'll bet david duval tried a sports psychologist or two before he gave up on pro golf.

 

the real proof is that sports psychologists and all of the "analytics" available can't accurately predict which players will be successful and which will be busts. they're no better than a coin flip especially with qb's. the wonderlic seems the most objective measure and strangely manuel and brees obtained the same low scores while fitz almost doubled them. this is far from hard science.

 

Sports psychology doesn't deal in the realm of predicting anything. Nor does the Wonderlic for that matter.

 

Some people think it's healthy to seek advice from professionals that have proved to help others in the past. If you wish to denigrate that so be it. Perhaps you could seek psychological insight into why you have the compulsion to do that, though.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Direhard Fan]

Can't believe the game. Giants run for 190 yards and we pass. Or attempt to pass. EJ was terrible. Can't believe he wasn't replaced in the fourth. Coaching was terrible. A sad day for Bills fans. Another year of excuses. Great "D" and we still loose. Sad!

[thewildrabbit]

> Whaley may get to stay though.....if he can put the EJ fiasco on Marrone and Nix.

 

The year before Bill Parcells became the GM of the Dolphins, they'd used a second round pick on a QB. A guy who was supposedly their quarterback of the future. Parcells wasn't impressed, which is why he used a second round pick on a QB of his own choosing, in the very first year of his tenure. Neither quarterback worked out. But at least Parcells could legitimately say that he'd realized the previous regime's second round QB was going to be a bust.

 

Whaley is going to have an extremely difficult time making the same argument WRT Manuel. Whaley was almost certainly part of the pro-Manuel "consensus" within the Bills' front office at the end of Nix's tenure. Also, nothing about Whaley's actions as GM up to this point suggest the slightest hint of doubt about Manuel. Not only did he seem determined to build a team around Manuel, but he also traded away our first round pick in next year's draft. The more Manuel plays, the more evident our need for that first round pick becomes.

 

If I'm Pegula, and if Whaley tries to sell me on the idea he had serious doubts about Manuel all along, I'd ask, "Why didn't you attempt to trade up for Bortles? Or, if they simply refused to trade, why didn't you at least hold onto your first round pick in next year's draft?"

 

The other point to bear in mind is that if Whaley escapes all blame for the Manuel bust, he also evades credit for all the good picks made that year. (Kiko and Woods.) Which means his only source of credit will be the good picks he made this year. Watkins is a very good player. But not necessarily a better player than had generally been expected prior to the draft. (At least not thus far.) Whaley's second round pick looks to be a bust (at least thus far). Bill from NYC expressed disappointment with that pick at the time it was made--a reaction which thus far has been completely justified. Other than Henderson, it's hard to argue that Whaley has done anything special as GM; whereas the Kouandjio pick and his evident faith in Manuel are causes for serious concern.

 

When I watched Manuel's college highlight reel, I was shocked. Nearly every throw I saw was to Manuel's first read; on a play when that first read was wide open. These were throws I'd expect a typical high school quarterback to make, assuming a reasonable level of arm strength. Put another way: any high school quarterback who lacks the accuracy or decision-making to complete those throws should be benched.

 

It's possible that, somewhere in the Bills' film archives, they have a treasure trove of great throws Manuel made as a college QB. Throws which somehow didn't make it onto that highlight video. Throws which went above and beyond anything you'd expect from a high school QB. If I'm Pegula, I'd ask Whaley to show me those throws--assuming they exist--as part of his explanation for why he went all-in on Manuel. If Whaley can't show Pegula throws like those, then he used entirely the wrong process to select his quarterback of the future. There would be no need for Pegula to keep someone like that on as GM--especially not when the Bills' biggest single need is at quarterback.

Not to worry, at this point Whaley will be fired just for the extra draft picks #1 & #4 in 2015 for Sammy Watkins. While it might not be that big a deal ATM, just wait until the end of the season when the Bills are giving up that vaunted #1 pick to the Browns, and still might not have a franchise QB. This board is going to explode, as will the entire fan base.

 

Kelvin Benjamin taken by the Panthers with the 28th pick in the first round is currently ranked as the #9 receiver in the NFL. Even Brandin Cooks taken with the #20th pick by New Orleans, and currently ranked as the 44th best receiver ranks better. For that matter so does Mike Evans, Tampa Bays pick at #7 ranks better at #43.

 

Then you have the ongoing debacle at both OG positions, and after two years the team still hasn't replaced LG Andy Levitre properly.

 

Going back to Florida State and EJ in college.

"With a new quarterback in E.J. Manuel, the script flipped, and Fisher's playcalling and gameplanning was comparatively better than it had been, but his quarterback played considerably worse when the defense knew the offense was going to pass.

Manuel's completion percentage on first down (71%) and second down (74%) compared to third down (57%) would seem to support this a bit, but instinctively, one would figure that a lower completion percentage would occur on third down, since the needed yardage is more."

"Given the above, and that Florida State's running game was much better than its passing game, (5th best rushing game, against the 21st best passing game, by one measure), I don't think Florida State will miss Manuel as much as any team in recent history has missed the top quarterback drafted (Andrew Luck, Cam Newton, Sam Bradford, Matthew Stafford, Matt Ryan, etc.)."

http://www.tomahawknation.com/florida-state-football-fsu-noles/2013/8/30/4674876/florida-state-football-preview-2013-offense

If I'm Doug Whaley I tell Doug Marrone to run the ball 44 times, and EJ had better not be throwing more then 20 times. Plus, I'd tell Marrone / Hackett they had better find new, innovate ways to run the ball, or find new jobs!

[thewildrabbit]

Wow. This actually makes me rethink my strong desire to see EJ sit because it doesn't matter who the QB is if the playcalling is being made by someone with his head up his a_ _. Maybe the disgusted looks from Williams and Wood had more to do with Hackett than Manuel. If Hackett is really this bad, the season is screwed so what does it matter...

A lot of fans have been saying this the last two years. What does it say about an OC who can't manage to build a proper run game with two of the very best RB's in the NFL.

 

Yea, sure the Bills are currently 2-2 aaaannnnndddd on their way to play the #1 defense in Detroit.

 

Last time I looked OG Richie Incognito is still looking for a team, and Marty Schottheimer is sitting at home retired. Incognito could help either side, and Marty S would make a great adviser on how to building a proper run game

[KD in CA]

I think you mean Holcomb. JP always threw it longer than a yard. It may have been a 90mph fastball in the helmet or into the stands, but it always traveled far.

 

I think you're right; it may have been during the Holcomb era. I think he threw it to Lee Evans or someone like that who should have been ten yards downfield.

[dave mcbride]

I think you're right; it may have been during the Holcomb era. I think he threw it to Lee Evans or someone like that who should have been ten yards downfield.

It was to Moulds and it was a night game against the Patriots. Down 21-16 during the Bills' final possession of the game, Holcomb completed a pass to Moulds on 4th and 8 for zero yards. Relive the magic: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200510300nwe.htm .

[birdog1960]

Sports psychology doesn't deal in the realm of predicting anything. Nor does the Wonderlic for that matter.

 

Some people think it's healthy to seek advice from professionals that have proved to help others in the past. If you wish to denigrate that so be it. Perhaps you could seek psychological insight into why you have the compulsion to do that, though.

 

GO BILLS!!!

just out of interest, why do you think the wonderlic is administered to potential draft choices? is intelligence not part of personality and thus a psychological measure? read a bit about the vetting of jamarcus russell. he and his familty were interviewed extensively before the draft. i'd expect those interviews weren't done by guys moonlighting from their dishwasher jobs. after that disaster, you can bet that there's plenty more psychological evaluation going on pre draft. when maturity is questioned before a draft, who do you think is doing the evaluation? my point is that whomever is doing it isn't producing very reliable results. if sports psychology were as valuable you seem to believe, this wouldn't be the case. you may conversely want to ask yourself why you are so convinced of a relatively new disciplines value.

[Billadelphia]

 

 

I appreciate where you're coming from here but their lack of coaching pedigree notwithstanding, the design of the offense, from what little I can gather on TV and the All-22, appears to be pretty good actually. Hackett's pass-play designs usually have two guys running open and at depths that just reasonable protection would allow to be completed. Granted, the last two weeks the OLine hasn't done a great job with pressure up the middle and perhaps EJ is playing rattled, but that's no excuse to be impatient when plays are there to be made. Not to mention how this is compounded when he DOES attempt an intermediate route to wide open receivers and misses completely. Either way, he's playing scared for the first time that I've observed and that's far worse than playing not to screw up.

 

If our QB needs everything else to be clicking perfectly (protection, no drops, correct routes, etc.) in order to be successful, when there is absolutely NO margin for error, then we are living in a fantasy world. The QB position is defined by overcoming adversity and EJ appears, for the first time to me anyway, to be shying away from it instead of meeting it head on. That moxie is the single-most important trait I need to see in a QB and I'm worried that EJ has lost that.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

I think you've summed it up pretty well right here.

[K-9]

just out of interest, why do you think the wonderlic is administered to potential draft choices? is intelligence not part of personality and thus a psychological measure? read a bit about the vetting of jamarcus russell. he and his familty were interviewed extensively before the draft. i'd expect those interviews weren't done by guys moonlighting from their dishwasher jobs. after that disaster, you can bet that there's plenty more psychological evaluation going on pre draft. when maturity is questioned before a draft, who do you think is doing the evaluation? my point is that whomever is doing it isn't producing very reliable results. if sports psychology were as valuable you seem to believe, this wouldn't be the case. you may conversely want to ask yourself why you are so convinced of a relatively new disciplines value.

 

The Wonderlic is administered to prospective draft choices for the same reason it's administered to prospective employees across a wide spectrum of occupations. It's just a simple intelligence/aptitude test. Nothing more, nothing less. It's not used by NFL teams to "predict" anything.

 

As for sports psychology and the idea that it's relatively new, this is simply not true.

 

The "value" of sports psychology is relative. There are successes and failures. But that's not the point here. Numerous people have been helped. Numerous professional and amateur sports organizations employ full time experts in the field. I don't think that's because they seek to invest in something that doesn't bear the results they seek.

 

But again, why the need to denigrate those that seek whatever help it may offer? It's no skin off your ass.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[RuntheDamnBall]

 

 

I appreciate where you're coming from here but their lack of coaching pedigree notwithstanding, the design of the offense, from what little I can gather on TV and the All-22, appears to be pretty good actually. Hackett's pass-play designs usually have two guys running open and at depths that just reasonable protection would allow to be completed. Granted, the last two weeks the OLine hasn't done a great job with pressure up the middle and perhaps EJ is playing rattled, but that's no excuse to be impatient when plays are there to be made. Not to mention how this is compounded when he DOES attempt an intermediate route to wide open receivers and misses completely. Either way, he's playing scared for the first time that I've observed and that's far worse than playing not to screw up.

 

If our QB needs everything else to be clicking perfectly (protection, no drops, correct routes, etc.) in order to be successful, when there is absolutely NO margin for error, then we are living in a fantasy world. The QB position is defined by overcoming adversity and EJ appears, for the first time to me anyway, to be shying away from it instead of meeting it head on. That moxie is the single-most important trait I need to see in a QB and I'm worried that EJ has lost that.

 

GO BILLS!!!

no argument from me there. I'm not criticizing the system being designed for him, I'm just calling into question the quality of instruction coming from these people. I'm not sure this is the crew I would have wanted bringing up a young and raw quarterback. I still believe he has long-term potential but this is absolutely the right move right now.