A Few Thoughts About The Game, in no particular order.....

[TaskerTough]

Terrible accuracy and no zip on the ball. EJ never throws with zip. Always wafflers or pop flies. He hurries his route reading, often missing wide open options.

 

I think its a mistake however, to define taking him out as admitting he's a draft bust. Life is long, the kid has tools, he's a strong dude with a great attitude and lots of upsides. right now, he is not a starting qb in the nfl, that's all. We gotta sit him, and we gotta frame it as 'development', 'best for our team at the moment' etc. etc.

 

i don't hate ej, hes just not the guy that gives us our best shot at winning, right now.

[truth on hold]

Mike Williams not so subtly calls out staff for adjusting too late.

 

"We adjusted a little too late. They were playing press man, and we kept getting calls for zone. When that happens things tend not to work."

 

http://www.buffalobi...bb-c911b4607d09

Edited September 29, 2014 by Joe_the_6_pack

[BigBuff423]

I still like Marrone as a Coach overall, I give him credit for sticking with Crossman and DW getting him the players to execute as sadly STs - the worst of the squad a year ago - is now a real strength and maybe the best unit on this team, but Offensive play-calling and continuing to force EJ into a position is he not ready for, may very well be his undoing and equally detrimental to my opinion of him as all other things are positive in my mind....Marrone, I think can Coach in the NFL and can lead a team, but if his refusal to accept that this team is built to win THIS year, not next year or the year after, and therefore make some difficult decisions such as benching EJ and taking over the play-calling then I start to lose my support of him...EJ, may (and I have my serious doubts about this) *develop* into an NFL QB but he is nowhere near ready to do so now and not this year....FWIW, this is not the first and probably won't be the last as I'm sure he starts next week much to my chagrin, time I've said such things and it's not bashing EJ, it's that the ORIGINAL plan was to have a Vet QB lead this team, to get wins and build team chemistry and, and allow EJ to develop slowly rather than forcing the issue, the BILLS Coaches and FO should at the very least go back to their original plan....maybe EJ is the guy next year and for the next 10 years, I really don't know, but I *do* know that he is not ready...and as others have said, including myself in other threads, it is unfair to tie your entire team and it's future to one individual when all other aspects of this team are playoff ready...if this team were the Jags, I understand let your Rookie QB learn and grow with the rest of the team, but in this case, all other phases are ready to go....however, to the OP's point about Whaley, I strongly disagree - except for in the case of Manuel although we've had this debate about it being Nix's call or if Whaley was on board or if Whaley actually made the decision, but failure to address the QB position until one week before the start of the season that does fall on DW's shoulders...however, let's not forget all the good DW has done otherwise, none of us are perfect and make great decisions all the time, this is a glaring failure for DW, but in nearly every other aspect he's been dead on...my 2 cents.

[GG]

I see this happen all the time. Why is a WR only two yards downfield at that point in the play, in a position to do nothing but kill the drive?

 

I remember one game years ago where the Bills had a 4th and 6 on their final drive and JP threw to a WR one yard downfield. Tackle, ballgame.

 

Some things never change. Maddening.

 

I think you mean Holcomb. JP always threw it longer than a yard. It may have been a 90mph fastball in the helmet or into the stands, but it always traveled far.

[DC Greg]

Mike Williams not so subtly calls out staff for adjusting too late.

 

"We adjusted a little too late. They were playing press man, and we kept getting calls for zone. When that happens things tend not to work."

 

http://www.buffalobi...bb-c911b4607d09

 

 

It's obvious to the players, analysts, and casual fans. Hackett is a disaster and so is Marone, by proxy.

[bobobonators]

Prior to the season I had us at 2-2 going into week 5, but not by losing against the Texans. We can't possibly lose against average teams with average QB's and expect to have a winning season - especially with the quality QB's we'll be facing later in the year. On the brink of 3-1 this loss is demoralizing, especially in the manner in which it occurred.

[BillsVet]

Terrible accuracy and no zip on the ball. EJ never throws with zip. Always wafflers or pop flies. He hurries his route reading, often missing wide open options.

 

EJ rifled in a 7 yard pass to Watkins IIRC in the 2nd half.

[BMWR100RT]

That pick off by Watt was despicable, not for EJ, but for the play call. We get a shiny new receiver and we can't throw to the corner of the end zone like every other pro team? We make it its 7. We miss and its 3. Instead its a ten point swing. I's not like Watt hadn't been in on play yet. That play was the whole regime in a nutshell.

[PaattMaann]

I'm so glad I didn't waste a beautiful day watching this crappy game. The Bills aren't going to be any good until they get a real QB. Orton is better than EJ or Fitz for that matter. Marrone might as well play him sooner than later.

 

So you admit you didn't watch the game yet you make statements about the team you don't watch? Sounds legit

 

I love some of our "fans"

[yungmack]

After the Bills game we switched to the SF Bills and EJ Kaepernick. Or so it appeared in the first half. It was remarkable how similar the Bills and Niners looked, from head scratcher play calls to lousy throws, from porous o-line play to Kaepernick's amazinly EJ-like tendency to choose the wrong receiver when others were wide open. All that saved the Niners were the running game which like the Bills they kept going away from, and some very fine catches of terrible passes, unlike the Bills receivers. Didn't see the second half but the final score seems to show at least some improvement in play.

 

As to our EJ, that was the worst overall he's been. Whatever natural instincts he had seem to have been coached out of him (that is the downside of being "coachable"). His penchant for choosing just about the worst option among his receivers is maddening as is his reluctance to really take off and run. I could go on but you guys have pretty well covered his strengths and weaknesses. In his defense, Hackett isn't doing him any favors with his play calling. That TD pass to Williams is about as much a gimme as there is so of course, the Bills throw short 99% of the time.

 

As to benching EJ, I doubt that happens, at least before the bye week. To do so would be an admission of failure that I don't think Whaley, Marrone or Hackett are ready to declare just yet.

[JohnC]

What is there new to say? The GM was all in on last year's first round qb. They not only invested in him with a first round draft pick but they gave up next year's first round draft pick to move up a few spots to select a dynamic receiver who would help to enhance EJ's prospects. Whaley selected a qb who many believed was far from being ready to play in this league. I'm not suggesting that EJ isn't capable of being a franchise qb (although that is very debatable) but the organization put itself in a vulnerable position for someone who was not close to being enough of a finished product to quickly succeed.

 

What really bothered me in the Houston game is that you can see the frustration level boiling over with the receivers. It's unprofessional to publicly demonstrate your frustration and irritation with your qb. I understand the frustration but it doesn't help the situation.

 

Where does the team go on from here? As this point Orton might be the better short term answer but it must be recognized that he is nothing more than a pedestrian qb, in other words a reasonable backup. The bottom line is that this front office put their chips on a young player with no backup plan. Giving up next year's first round pick for Watkins made a lot of sense (at least to me) if the qb throwing to him was a more accomplished player.

 

I'm not giving up on EJ. But that doesn't mean that he should continue to start and play at a wretched level. You have to give the team a chance to compete and get some wins under its belt. What I find most disturbing is not that EJ doesn't work out but who is next in line to take the snaps next year. Did this staff mortgage the short term future for a long shot? The Bills have not made the playoffs for 15 consecutive years; at this rate of progress we are looking at another half decade added to the ignominious count that is still ongoing.

[fergie's ire]

Let me preface this by saying that I was one of the wait and see crowd on EJ coming in to this year. I thought I had seen some real promise and that he could develop...but I am starting to think our quarterback just might suck.

 

To those who are defending him based on the 80 yd. touchdown, I'd like people to look at that play again. I don't have the ability to watch a replay...but I will go by memory and others can check it out. EJ gets some pressure and lets the pressure on the right go by him and steps nicely through an opening and rolls to some free space. EJ had seemed unable to find such gaps in the recent past...so that is good, but it gets real bad and real ugly fast. EJ runs horizontally and then angles toward the line. It is on this kind of plays that quarterbacks usually take that big step an really drive into the throw. Even noodle arms like Fitzpatrick can get something on the ball on this kind of play. EJ, instead, takes a weird hop backwards. It's as if a little voice in his head said, "For God's sake, DON'T step into that throw..the ball might come flying out fast. Get your weight on your back foot NOW and throw falling away."

 

Now a look down field. Mike Williams is not wide open. In the NFL getting two steps on a defender is wide open. Mike Williams is completely overlooked by the defense and not a single player is in the same zip code. He sticks his arm up in the air to motion "I'm open" when he sees he has been left uncovered, then he turns to watch the ball....and slows....and stops...and waits. If anyone was even close to him he would have been killed or the ball would have been picked. By the time he catches it a Houston defender has caught up enough to almost cut him off had Mike Williams not been able to out maneuver him with the help of a blocker.

 

In all honesty, in terms of EJ suckiosity the touchdown worries me more than the interception. As for the offensive line problems? There were some problems there, but the "pressure" EJ saw had a lot to do with his own play, too....but that is for another post.

[K-9]

is that your criteria for validity? lot's of athletes wore magnets and copper bracelets. i'll bet lots watch dr oz as well.

 

No, my criteria for validity is the long record of success and widely held acceptance of the practice along with the recognition that it often bears the desired results.

 

Is your criteria for invalidation a lame comparison to pop-culture fads?

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Boolay]

Let's look back to last week vs Chargers. Bills down 2 scores with 1:40 left and they take the ball on their 20. EJ then proceeded to use the entire clock on the first stats padding drive dinking and dunking before finally throwing an incomplete pass I the end zone as time expired. How many other teams would basically throw in the towel in that position with 1:40 left?

[K-9]

Let's look back to last week vs Chargers. Bills down 2 scores with 1:40 left and they take the ball on their 20. EJ then proceeded to use the entire clock on the first stats padding drive dinking and dunking before finally throwing an incomplete pass I the end zone as time expired. How many other teams would basically throw in the towel in that position with 1:40 left?

 

This has me concerned as well. For the first time in his pro career, EJ has looked almost clueless in the two-minute offense; timid, afraid of screwing up. Didn't see that last year. Hell, we didn't see that in the first game vs. the Bears when he confidently moved the ball in OT. I think he's officially crossed over into Trentative territory in that regard. And I'm not convinced it's a mind-set he can just mature out of as it wasn't there previously. I think it's something he's LOST vs. something he can learn. Not good.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited September 29, 2014 by K-9

[RuntheDamnBall]

This has me concerned as well. For the first time in his pro career, EJ has looked almost clueless in the two-minute offense; timid, afraid of screwing up. Didn't see that last year. Hell, we didn't see that in the first game vs. the Bears when he confidently moved the ball in OT. I think he's officially crossed over into Trentative territory in that regard. And I'm not convinced it's a mind-set he can just mature out of as it wasn't there previously. I think it's something he's LOST vs. something he can learn. Not good.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Or something taken from him by the many offensive gurus in the fold. If just one of Downing, Marrone or Hackett had a little more success in the background I would feel a lot more confident about EJ's chances going forward.

[dave mcbride]

Let me preface this by saying that I was one of the wait and see crowd on EJ coming in to this year. I thought I had seen some real promise and that he could develop...but I am starting to think our quarterback just might suck.

 

To those who are defending him based on the 80 yd. touchdown, I'd like people to look at that play again. I don't have the ability to watch a replay...but I will go by memory and others can check it out. EJ gets some pressure and lets the pressure on the right go by him and steps nicely through an opening and rolls to some free space. EJ had seemed unable to find such gaps in the recent past...so that is good, but it gets real bad and real ugly fast. EJ runs horizontally and then angles toward the line. It is on this kind of plays that quarterbacks usually take that big step an really drive into the throw. Even noodle arms like Fitzpatrick can get something on the ball on this kind of play. EJ, instead, takes a weird hop backwards. It's as if a little voice in his head said, "For God's sake, DON'T step into that throw..the ball might come flying out fast. Get your weight on your back foot NOW and throw falling away."

 

Now a look down field. Mike Williams is not wide open. In the NFL getting two steps on a defender is wide open. Mike Williams is completely overlooked by the defense and not a single player is in the same zip code. He sticks his arm up in the air to motion "I'm open" when he sees he has been left uncovered, then he turns to watch the ball....and slows....and stops...and waits. If anyone was even close to him he would have been killed or the ball would have been picked. By the time he catches it a Houston defender has caught up enough to almost cut him off had Mike Williams not been able to out maneuver him with the help of a blocker.

 

In all honesty, in terms of EJ suckiosity the touchdown worries me more than the interception. As for the offensive line problems? There were some problems there, but the "pressure" EJ saw had a lot to do with his own play, too....but that is for another post.

 

Your memory is faulty. I watched it a few times, and Williams actually sped up to get to the ball. The pass wasn't completely on the money, but it was more or less on the money and certainly accurate enough.

[K-9]

Or something taken from him by the many offensive gurus in the fold. If just one of Downing, Marrone or Hackett had a little more success in the background I would feel a lot more confident about EJ's chances going forward.

 

I appreciate where you're coming from here but their lack of coaching pedigree notwithstanding, the design of the offense, from what little I can gather on TV and the All-22, appears to be pretty good actually. Hackett's pass-play designs usually have two guys running open and at depths that just reasonable protection would allow to be completed. Granted, the last two weeks the OLine hasn't done a great job with pressure up the middle and perhaps EJ is playing rattled, but that's no excuse to be impatient when plays are there to be made. Not to mention how this is compounded when he DOES attempt an intermediate route to wide open receivers and misses completely. Either way, he's playing scared for the first time that I've observed and that's far worse than playing not to screw up.

 

If our QB needs everything else to be clicking perfectly (protection, no drops, correct routes, etc.) in order to be successful, when there is absolutely NO margin for error, then we are living in a fantasy world. The QB position is defined by overcoming adversity and EJ appears, for the first time to me anyway, to be shying away from it instead of meeting it head on. That moxie is the single-most important trait I need to see in a QB and I'm worried that EJ has lost that.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited September 29, 2014 by K-9

[Orton's Arm]

I am hoping that Pegula doesn't give the current administration a Reiger esk pass on their performance and allow them to stay into next year. Need a new GM and coach......Whaley may get to stay though.....if he can put the EJ fiasco on Marrone and Nix.

 

As for the lead comments, mostly correct. McKelvin played the best of the CB;s in Houston. Bradham was good, and Brown is actually making some plays.

 

> Whaley may get to stay though.....if he can put the EJ fiasco on Marrone and Nix.

 

The year before Bill Parcells became the GM of the Dolphins, they'd used a second round pick on a QB. A guy who was supposedly their quarterback of the future. Parcells wasn't impressed, which is why he used a second round pick on a QB of his own choosing, in the very first year of his tenure. Neither quarterback worked out. But at least Parcells could legitimately say that he'd realized the previous regime's second round QB was going to be a bust.

 

Whaley is going to have an extremely difficult time making the same argument WRT Manuel. Whaley was almost certainly part of the pro-Manuel "consensus" within the Bills' front office at the end of Nix's tenure. Also, nothing about Whaley's actions as GM up to this point suggest the slightest hint of doubt about Manuel. Not only did he seem determined to build a team around Manuel, but he also traded away our first round pick in next year's draft. The more Manuel plays, the more evident our need for that first round pick becomes.

 

If I'm Pegula, and if Whaley tries to sell me on the idea he had serious doubts about Manuel all along, I'd ask, "Why didn't you attempt to trade up for Bortles? Or, if they simply refused to trade, why didn't you at least hold onto your first round pick in next year's draft?"

 

The other point to bear in mind is that if Whaley escapes all blame for the Manuel bust, he also evades credit for all the good picks made that year. (Kiko and Woods.) Which means his only source of credit will be the good picks he made this year. Watkins is a very good player. But not necessarily a better player than had generally been expected prior to the draft. (At least not thus far.) Whaley's second round pick looks to be a bust (at least thus far). Bill from NYC expressed disappointment with that pick at the time it was made--a reaction which thus far has been completely justified. Other than Henderson, it's hard to argue that Whaley has done anything special as GM; whereas the Kouandjio pick and his evident faith in Manuel are causes for serious concern.

 

When I watched Manuel's college highlight reel, I was shocked. Nearly every throw I saw was to Manuel's first read; on a play when that first read was wide open. These were throws I'd expect a typical high school quarterback to make, assuming a reasonable level of arm strength. Put another way: any high school quarterback who lacks the accuracy or decision-making to complete those throws should be benched.

 

It's possible that, somewhere in the Bills' film archives, they have a treasure trove of great throws Manuel made as a college QB. Throws which somehow didn't make it onto that highlight video. Throws which went above and beyond anything you'd expect from a high school QB. If I'm Pegula, I'd ask Whaley to show me those throws--assuming they exist--as part of his explanation for why he went all-in on Manuel. If Whaley can't show Pegula throws like those, then he used entirely the wrong process to select his quarterback of the future. There would be no need for Pegula to keep someone like that on as GM--especially not when the Bills' biggest single need is at quarterback.

[birdog1960]

No, my criteria for validity is the long record of success and widely held acceptance of the practice along with the recognition that it often bears the desired results.

 

Is your criteria for invalidation a lame comparison to pop-culture fads?

 

GO BILLS!!!

the field has been around for 15 to 20 years depending on who you ask. whatever did athletes do before sports psychologists were available? where are the results? there are so many variables in sports performance (especially team sports) that it would be impossible to measure the results. additionally, you're unlikely to hear of the failures near as often as the successes. i'll bet david duval tried a sports psychologist or two before he gave up on pro golf.

 

the real proof is that sports psychologists and all of the "analytics" available can't accurately predict which players will be successful and which will be busts. they're no better than a coin flip especially with qb's. the wonderlic seems the most objective measure and strangely manuel and brees obtained the same low scores while fitz almost doubled them. this is far from hard science.