The Dougs' Accountability Thread

[GG]

Dude we are in year 1.3 of them being in charge. Give it a rest.

 

... and in that brief span, they decided that Ryan Fitzpatrick, Tarvaris Jackson and Matt Flynn weren't worthy of taking even a single preseason snap, while Thad Lewis and Jeff Tuel were good enough to start a regular season game.

[Dan]

...

 

"Trading" Fitz for Kolb for Orton is up there.

...

I agree, the way they've handles the QB position is mind boggling at times. However, EJ is making a case that putting their belief in him isn't entirely a mistake.... he has done some good.

 

Hackett, on the other hand, is doing far more harm than anything to the offense. Unless I'm mistaken we've gone backwards in every key offensive statistic since his arrival. The offense is approaching the complete predictablity and simplicity that had opposing defenses literally laughing at us in the Jauron days.

[hondo in seattle]

... and in that brief span, they decided that Ryan Fitzpatrick, Tarvaris Jackson and Matt Flynn weren't worthy of taking even a single preseason snap, while Thad Lewis and Jeff Tuel were good enough to start a regular season game.

 

Didn't Nix cut Fitz?

 

In any case, you can't put every transaction - every decision - under a microscope. Not one single GM in the NFL would survive that kind of analysis. Personnel is an inexact science. Even winning GMs miss on draft picks, miss on FAs, and sometimes cut players who go on to star on other clubs.

 

If you get close enough to an artistic masterpiece in a museum, you might see flaws in the execution. Not every brush stroke is perfect. But when you step back and look at the overall painting, it's beautiful. What's Whaley's overall body of work? I can't say because he hasn't finished the painting yet.

 

But my sense is that the roster is stronger now than it was when Whaley took over. If he keeps making it stronger, we might get to cheer a playoff game someday. If we change our FO every couple years, personnel guys will want to work here, coaches won't want to coach here, and players won't want to play here.

 

I don't want Pegula to turn us into the Raiders.

Edited September 26, 2014 by hondo in seattle

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Dude we are in year 1.3 of them being in charge. Give it a rest.

 

Fairly or not, they are in a super short leash with a new owner. My gut tells me that they have next year and then at least marrone is gone, if not both Doug's.

 

If I am pegula, I clean house and get my own guys in there.

[YoloinOhio]

Didn't Nix cut Fitz?

 

In any case, you can't put every transaction - every decision - under a microscope. Not one single GM in the NFL would survive that kind of analysis. Personnel is an inexact science. Even winning GMs miss on draft picks, miss on FAs, and sometimes cut players who go on to star on other clubs.

 

If you get close enough to an artistic masterpiece in a museum, you might see flaws in the execution. Not every brush stroke is perfect. But when you step back and look at the overall painting, it's beautiful. What's Whaley's overall body of work? I can't say because he hasn't finished the painting yet.

 

But my sense is that the roster is stronger now than it was when Whaley took over. If he keeps making it stronger, we might get to cheer a playoff game someday. If we change our FO every couple years, personnel guys will want to work here, coaches won't want to coach here, and players won't want to play here.

 

I don't want Pegula to turn us into the Raiders.

Yes

[GG]

Didn't Nix cut Fitz?

 

In any case, you can't put every transaction - every decision - under a microscope. Not one single GM in the NFL would survive that kind of analysis. Personnel is an inexact science. Even winning GMs miss on draft picks, miss on FAs, and sometimes cut players who go on to star on other clubs.

 

If you get close enough to an artistic masterpiece in a museum, you might see flaws in the execution. Not every brush stroke is perfect. But when you step back and look at the overall painting, it's beautiful. What's Whaley's overall body of work? I can't say because he hasn't finished the painting yet.

 

But my sense is that the roster is stronger now than it was when Whaley took over. If he keeps making it stronger, we might get to cheer a playoff game someday. If we change our FO every couple years, personnel guys will want to work here, coaches won't want to coach here, and players won't want to play here.

 

I don't want Pegula to turn us into the Raiders.

 

Can't hide behind Nix, because Nix needed advice of his pro personnel director on who would replace Fitz if they were to cut him. That was Whaley. Don't forget the Bills signed Jackson in the spring and then decided he wasn't worthy of a training camp invite. This is the same scouting team that reportedly made a strong run at Freeman. This is the administration that thought it was a good plan to draft a raw QB to be coached by a very green OC with zero QB coaching help.

 

So yeah, I can still step away from the canvas and puke up a Jackson Pollock worthy masterpiece.

[jahnyc]

I think the Dougs have been a bit all over the place in terms of the good and bad. Some of the good: improved overall talent and depth, great trade to get Hughes, and good free agent pick ups with Corey Graham and Dixon. Some of the bad: poor handling of the back-up QB situation, inability to address the OG situation, and having Hackett as the OC.

 

Good luck trying to assess all of this as well as whether EJ will develop into a quality QB, whether Doug M. is a quality head coach, and whether Sammy Watkins was worth trading up for. Seems like a very mixed record with not enough information to figure out whether we are on the right path.

[A Dog Named Kelso]

I think they lack a cohesive plan or had one(or several) and strayed from it(them). Are they win now, rebuilding, grooming a QB? Their and statements contradicts themselves. That, more than anything, may be their undoing. My thought is they thought they would have more time to whatever they wanted, but when the sales process progressed so quickly it changed their perspective.

 

I feel a little bad for them. Ralph's passing and the quick sale changed what they might have hoped to do in my opinion. I think that can be explained to Pegula. That said, it should not have. Follow your plan, they have failed to do that from what I can see.

Edited September 26, 2014 by A Dog Named Kelso

[San-O]

Simply put, the Buffalo Bills have mismanaged the single most important position in all or Pro sports, once again.

[1billsfan]

Can't hide behind Nix, because Nix needed advice of his pro personnel director on who would replace Fitz if they were to cut him. That was Whaley. Don't forget the Bills signed Jackson in the spring and then decided he wasn't worthy of a training camp invite. This is the same scouting team that reportedly made a strong run at Freeman. This is the administration that thought it was a good plan to draft a raw QB to be coached by a very green OC with zero QB coaching help.

 

So yeah, I can still step away from the canvas and puke up a Jackson Pollock worthy masterpiece.

 

You make it seem as if the Bills have no other flaws than the QB holding them back. I count 4 other flaws...

 

1. Their Guards suck.

2. Penalties are killing them.

3. Hackett/Marrone's offensive conservatism is starting to produce a steady diet of 3rd and longs.

4. Their defensive backfield is suspect.

 

I know that I'm in the minority here, but I think that the Bills should take the training wheels off EJ Manuel this week against the Texans. I think they need a real game final examination of what they have. Go out there with a pass heavy attack early with the objective to score at least 3 touchdowns before halftime. We ALL know that the Texans are loading up on the front to stop Spiller and Jackson. So IMO Manuel should have success early through the air because the Texans aren't expecting it at all. Playing it safe might get them a close game that they can win with a field goal in the closing seconds, but the day is coming where EJ Manuel will HAVE to pass this test. The coaches and the team need to know if he be trusted to pass the ball at the beginning of a game because defenses are loading up on the run. Because as long as the Bills stick with their run first, pass second game plan, they will only get to see an EJ Manuel that's put in the awkward position of passing when the defense knows they have to pass. Letting him sink or swim at least gives the Bills a good indication of where he's at on the learning curve. Have the balls to go all in on their first round pick this week and stop fiddling around the edges.

[A Dog Named Kelso]

You make it seem as if the Bills have no other flaws than the QB holding them back. I count 4 other flaws...

 

1. Their Guards suck.

2. Penalties are killing them.

3. Hackett/Marrone's offensive conservatism is starting to produce a steady diet of 3rd and longs.

4. Their defensive backfield is suspect.

 

 

All of which would be things to keep the Dougs accountable for, correct?

Edited September 26, 2014 by A Dog Named Kelso

[1billsfan]

All of which would be things to keep the Dougs accountable for, correct?

 

I think having a passing attack that's feared would cover up flaws 3 and 4. Defenses don't fear Manuel and they expect to see him as only a game manager. Also, all 32 NFL teams have flaws but if you're one dimensional NFL teams feed on that and the flaws start becoming magnified. I think the Bills are at a crossroads with regards to their conservative vs opened up approach on offense.

Edited September 26, 2014 by 1billsfan

[San-O]

I think having a passing attack that's feared would cover up flaws 3 and 4.Defenses don't fear Manuel and they expect him see only a game manager. Also, all 32 NFL teams have flaws but if you're one dimensional NFL teams feed on that and the flaws start becoming magnified. I think the Bills are at a crossroads with regards to their conservative vs opened up approach on offense.

 

Is this starting to feel a little more like Jauron Ball?

[qdawg in philly]

 

 

I think having a passing attack that's feared would cover up flaws 3 and 4.Defenses don't fear Manuel and they expect him see only a game manager. Also, all 32 NFL teams have flaws but if you're one dimensional NFL teams feed on that and the flaws start becoming magnified. I think the Bills are at a crossroads with regards to their conservative vs opened up approach on offense.

This makes a lot of sense. That's exactly why I agree with Dan also. If the Bills don't succeed this year, imho, Hackett will have a lot to do with it.

[A Dog Named Kelso]

Is this starting to feel a little more like Jauron Ball?

 

The main reason they brought in and fans were happy with Gailey's offense. If I am Russ I would want to have a conversation with Marrone about that.

[reddogblitz]

Is this starting to feel a little more like Jauron Ball?

 

I made the observation weeks ago that Coach Marrone looks like he's playing Dick Ball. Kick FGs, keep it close, take what the defense give you, play good D and Kicking teams, try to steal it at the end. He even said as much in his post game PC after the fish Skwishing.

 

This is a dangerous way for an up and coming team to play IMHO because when you get against teams like Patsies and Steelers etc, one mysterious call by the refs can lose you the game as we well know.

[PromoTheRobot]

100% accurate. However, lemmings on this board with no semblance of objectivity will continue to absolve this front office of any accountability that is commonplace in other NFL cities.

 

Russ Brandon is more interested in hiring a GM he can "control" than hiring one that could potentially overshadow his role with the team.

 

By objectivity, do you mean agree with you?

Edited September 26, 2014 by PromoTheRobot

[1billsfan]

I made the observation weeks ago that Coach Marrone looks like he's playing Dick Ball. Kick FGs, keep it close, take what the defense give you, play good D and Kicking teams, try to steal it at the end. He even said as much in his post game PC after the fish Skwishing.

 

This is a dangerous way for an up and coming team to play IMHO because when you get against teams like Patsies and Steelers etc, one mysterious call by the refs can lose you the game as we well know.

 

This is why it doesn't pay to play conservative in the NFL if you want to keep your job for very long. Yes, it's nice to tally up some wins if you do happen to have a decent ground attack and defense. But it quickly catches up with you. The walls start to close in on the offense and the entire team starts feeling tremendous pressure that one mistake can ruin the game. They don't play as freely anymore.

 

This should be the game for the coaches to tell Manuel and his WRs know that they're all in with an early "down the field" pass heavy attack. They've gone as far as they could with the run first strategy, but it's now in the teams best interest to unwrap the passing attack and see what they truly have or don't have. If it doesn't work and they lose, at least they have a real answer to a question that they didn't have before. Maybe they give Manuel one more shot after the Texans game and then if that doesn't work, Orton playing over Manuel can be fairly brought into the conversation. Maybe it starts with Orton coming off the bench if Manuel starts faltering after these next two games. Manuel was a 1st round QB pick and there's no hiding from this fact.

Edited September 26, 2014 by 1billsfan

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

By objectivity, do you mean agree with you?

 

That's pretty much what it means whenever anyone claims "objectivity" around here. See also realism, claims of.

[Fadingpain]

Pegula had a misstep early when he gave a blank check to Darcy Regier to sign free agents. That didn't work so they literally gutted the Sabres and are rebuilding from the bottom up. Most observers say the Sabres have the most talented prospects of any NHL team. They have 3 first round picks in the next NHL draft, including two picks that have a legit shot and being the #1 and #2 (Sabres and Islanders.) Suck now to be hopefully amazing later.

 

Sabres fans feel he should have cleaned house as soon as he bought the Sabres, and he probably should have. But don't expect that to happen to the Bills. What he will do is likely hire one or two "football czars" to be his eyes and ears on the team to get their judgement on how things are going. The Sabres have several of those types of people but GM Tim Murray still calls the shots.

 

Bottom line is no one will ever seriously say Terry is cheap. The guy believes in doing everything first class. He will not spare a nickel if his people say they need something. Does that make us a guaranteed winner? No, but it doesn't hurt.

 

I don't agree with every last thing you said, but overall, this is a very fair assessment of Pegula's ownership of the Sabres.

 

And you hit the nail on the head. Does $$$ guarantee success in the NHL or NFL?

 

Certainly not!

 

But it greatly improves your chances of success.

 

Further, can you win a championship without $$$$?

 

Probably not.