Snorom Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 (edited) EJ does have and will always have accuracy problems. There is no fixing it. He can be a game manager and have special moments but he will NEVER BE A TOP 10 QB I support EJ fully and I won't belittle him or post angry rants against him.... but he will always struggle with accuracy. Accuracy is not teachable, you have it or you don't. It can be refined but not taught Edited September 25, 2014 by Snorom
thebandit27 Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 Nah. It all hinges on the spin you put on your comments. I would put forth that strong defensive performances and a good turnover ratio have given us our first two wins. None of that has an ounce to do with EJ. Hell, if EJ was good, we would have blown Miami out of the game, in the first half. Look into that. I think you'll see that's the case. The QB played well enough to win; I was there. And yes, saying that a 2-1 record is forbodeing in any way is pessimistic. Calling it realism is being unwilling to admit it. The attitude you maintain while doing so is inconsequential.
Fadingpain Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 Analysis: He cannot get better because of what he showed at FSU. You are stuck in mental concrete with regard to EJ and any chance for improvement. Got it! Oh come on man. Give it a rest. I guess you enjoy arguing endlessly with anonymous strangers on the internet. Not me. I'm out.
JC2002 Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 EJ still has plenty of room to improve and I haven't given up on him . What some seem to overlook in this situation is that while EJ took what the defense gave him the defense didn't give him things they thought he was capable of winning the game with. They don't believe that if they take away the run he can complete 7-8 throws every drive and get this team into the endzone .
Fadingpain Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 The point isn't that he'll be as good as Brady, it's that your "I saw him at FSU and he is what he is" is a fundamentally flawed way of viewing NFL talent at any position. No NFL scout looks at prospects this way. They project what they think a player can be in the NFL in their team's particular system with proper development, coaching, etc.. Yes, precisely. I have viewed EJ's entire body of work including his time in the NFL, and I project that he is not the QB i am looking for on my team. You are entitled to disagree with that, and you are entitled to having him on YOUR team. That will make my life easier. It is always good for my team when your team has a mediocrity at the QB position. No, you are not. The Bills are 2-1; you are saying that we cannot use that info to predict their record. You are also saying that we can use Miami's record to predict how their season will go. What? Read harder. Come on, try. You can do it! I am precisely saying that we can use the Bills record to predict their future record, and I am saying that we can rely on all available data, including the records of the teams we have already played to predict the future record of the Buffalo Bills. This isn't that complicated, is it?
26CornerBlitz Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 Yes, precisely. I have viewed EJ's entire body of work including his time in the NFL, and I project that he is not the QB i am looking for on my team. You are entitled to disagree with that, and you are entitled to having him on YOUR team. That will make my life easier. It is always good for my team when your team has a mediocrity at the QB position. Well it's time for you to stop wasting your time on TSW with know nothings like me and get the NFL scouting or GM gig that's waiting for you. Good luck.
3putt Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 Fair enough. For the 10,000th time in the 10,000th thread on this topic: I believe I have seen enough in EJ Manuel's career at FSU and the Bills to conclude his ultimate potential upside is "NOT GOOD ENOUGH". A whole lot of people around the NFL (outside of Buffalo) agree with me, by the way. That may be characterized as "black and white". That is not where I am coming from in that analysis. I think EJ has many pros and cons to his game. His physique and general level of athleticism are superlative. He has prototypical size and wonderful arm strength. Ask Jeff Tuel if arm strength is important in this league. He is a smart guy off the field. EJ has lots of positives in his favor. I do not believe he is the heir to Jim Kelly, and that is the QB I have been waiting for for a long time now. I also believe that we will never win a Superbowl without a Jim Kelly caliber QB on the team. That is where my criticism of EJ begins and ends. Jim Kelly lost Superbowls to Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien, and two to Troy Aikman in his 3 and fourth years. Jim Kelly never won a Superbowl. The Idea that because EJ doesn't fit your image of what a championship caliber quarterback looks like is simply your bias. And your bias is questionable because the object to which you compare EJ is not by definition a Championship caliber quarterback by Superbowl standards. If you said Troy Aikman, Montana, Flacco, Roethlisberger, Rypien, Hostetler, Young or any of the others who actually won one then I can see your point. I still don't believe in the "eyeball" test but at least it would be properly focused.
Fadingpain Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 EJ does have and will always have accuracy problems. There is no fixing it. He can be a game manager and have special moments but he will NEVER BE A TOP 10 QB I support EJ fully and I won't belittle him or post angry rants against him.... but he will always struggle with accuracy. Accuracy is not teachable, you have it or you don't. It can be refined but not taught I hope you consider my body of comments to be something more than a mere "angry rant." But you are correct; EJ's accuracy problems will never be resolved. And further, his body of uncorrectable faults transcends accuracy problems. Some don't see that though. Yet.
The Wiz Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 I agree about not making excuses. From what I have seen, he nearly always throws terribly his first few passes of a game. Seems like a mental thing, because once he gets clicking, he is generally pretty decent. The coaches should make him throw on first down and second down so he can get that crap out of his system. Personally, I think the game is slowing down for him and that he has made some strides, but man does he start slow. Another thing that bothers me is the run first, all the freaking time, mentality. This offense is without a doubt a run heavy system, but lets not get ridiculous! You don't always have to run to set up the pass, you can also pass to set up the run. Another thing that drives me crazy is EJ often runs an option play and nearly always hands it off when he has a wide open side to run to himself. The play calling has improved, but still needs some work. EJ has improved, but still needs some work. No more excuses. It's time to start producing. I'd like to see him start a game throwing the ball..... may actually help him out. For fun I actually looked up the numbers. He threw ~20 of his 39 passes on 1st and 2nd down combine in the game and ~9 of them were on their final drive.
Kemp Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 EJ is more accurate than Matt Cassel. http://www.fieldgulls.com/seahawks-analysis/2014/9/23/6832611/total-accuracy-matt-stafford-ej-manual-russell-wilson
Fadingpain Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 Well it's time for you to stop wasting your time on TSW with know nothings like me and get the NFL scouting or GM gig that's waiting for you. Good luck. Thank you, but I have a lucrative and successful career that has nothing to do with NFL football, nor am I looking for such a career. As I said, you are entitled to your opinion of EJ's potential upside. I am entitled to mine. I would like to reiterate, for the umpteenth time, that this debate does not have to be settled this afternoon. It will be settled soon enough. I will be looking for you when that time comes. Go Bills!
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 EJ does have and will always have accuracy problems. There is no fixing it. He can be a game manager and have special moments but he will NEVER BE A TOP 10 QB I support EJ fully and I won't belittle him or post angry rants against him.... but he will always struggle with accuracy. Accuracy is not teachable, you have it or you don't. It can be refined but not taught This is news to me. When we drafted him, I thought we were getting a guy who was accurate and had a big arm. If that's wrong, then we should have kept fitz, whose biggest shortcoming seemed to be accuracy.
Fadingpain Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 Jim Kelly lost Superbowls to Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien, and two to Troy Aikman in his 3 and fourth years. Jim Kelly never won a Superbowl. The Idea that because EJ doesn't fit your image of what a championship caliber quarterback looks like is simply your bias. And your bias is questionable because the object to which you compare EJ is not by definition a Championship caliber quarterback by Superbowl standards. If you said Troy Aikman, Montana, Flacco, Roethlisberger, Rypien, Hostetler, Young or any of the others who actually won one then I can see your point. I still don't believe in the "eyeball" test but at least it would be properly focused. Oh good lord. Do you mean to suggest that Jim Kelly is not the ideal QB for any NFL team, ever, b/c the team he played on lost four Superbowls? You do realize those games are complex affairs with a multitude of factors playing into their outcome, right? I am guessing you are young. Take my word for it. The Bills would be well served to have Jim Kelly play QB on this team again, in his prime. That would not be our problem. And keep in mind that Jim Kelly most certainly had his faults. He was not perfect. Off the top of my head, I would say his 2 greatest weaknesses were that his supreme self confidence at times led to forcing throws int coverage and resulting interceptions. Also, he was as mobile as a brick wall. I'd still take Jimbo tomorrow, or a QB who was exactly like him in every possible way. But I would like to stress that my comments about EJ are about EJ. They are not about Jim Kelly.
Big Gun Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 Oh come on man. Give it a rest. I guess you enjoy arguing endlessly with anonymous strangers on the internet. Not me. I'm out. Yes he does! I guess it's what makes his world go round. Sad huh.
Fadingpain Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 This is news to me. When we drafted him, I thought we were getting a guy who was accurate and had a big arm. If that's wrong, then we should have kept fitz, whose biggest shortcoming seemed to be accuracy. Well EJ did throw 9 out of 10 footballs through a tire at a range of 10 feet. Or something like that. At the combine. I believe it was a "record" at the time.
26CornerBlitz Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 Yes he does! I guess it's what makes his world go round. Sad huh. More irony from you. People debating points on an internet forum. Shocking!
Fadingpain Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 Message to all EJ supporters and all Bills supporters of any stripe! I have to get back to work! I will be right next to you all this Sunday watching us hopefully beat the Houston Texans. Go Bills!
thebandit27 Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 What? Read harder. Come on, try. You can do it! I am precisely saying that we can use the Bills record to predict their future record, and I am saying that we can rely on all available data, including the records of the teams we have already played to predict the future record of the Buffalo Bills. This isn't that complicated, is it? Condescension is not a strong persuasive technique. Logic works much better IMO. Buffalo's current record is 2-1, 66.66666666666666666666% wins. You are saying that we cannot use that record or rate of winning to predict their future success. If you are saying that you are basing their future success on the records of teams they're facing in the future, then please show me what you mean. When I look at it, I see: 2 games against the 1-2 Jets Another game against the 1-2 Dolphins 2 games against a 2-1 Patriots team that nearly lost to the 0-3 Raiders at home A game against 1-2 KC A game against 1-2 Minnesota A game against 1-2 Cleveland That's a lot of very, very winnable games right there. This isn't that complicated, is it?
Kemp Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 Condescension is not a strong persuasive technique. Logic works much better IMO. Buffalo's current record is 2-1, 66.66666666666666666666% wins. You are saying that we cannot use that record or rate of winning to predict their future success. If you are saying that you are basing their future success on the records of teams they're facing in the future, then please show me what you mean. When I look at it, I see: 2 games against the 1-2 Jets Another game against the 1-2 Dolphins 2 games against a 2-1 Patriots team that nearly lost to the 0-3 Raiders at home A game against 1-2 KC A game against 1-2 Minnesota A game against 1-2 Cleveland That's a lot of very, very winnable games right there. This isn't that complicated, is it? In other words, the Bills have their softest schedule in recent memory. As long as EJ doesn't stink, the playoffs are a virtual guarantee. That's not complicated, either.
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