[closed]Would you wait three years for greatness at QB?

[RuntheDamnBall]

INdeed this subject matter is being currently being discussed

Not in the way that I've presented it, but thanks, thread police. I presume the mods would have dropped by if they agreed. Report the post if it's offending the heck out of you.

[Tyrod's Tailor]

That's the risk. A risk, I hope we'd agree, that GB took as well. It was just masked by Favre's ability to keep the team competitive -- and then some.

 

For sure. But the presence of the good veteran QB makes it so much easier to be patient.

 

Counter question: would you put Orton in right away if we hypothetically knew he would get us to the playoffs this year?

[Captain Caveman]

I think it's also worth pointing out that most other rookie (and non-rookie) QBs have had much worse games than what EJ gave us last Sunday. I am not saying he played well, but I keep hearing that he fell apart, that he was terrible etc.... If that ends up being his worst game this year (I doubt it will be) we are likely to have a very successful year.

 

A completion percentage in the high 50s with 1 TD, no interceptions and 3 sacks is not falling apart. Anyone who lives in NY / NJ and is regularly shown Giants games can tell you that falling apart is Eli throwing 5 picks with 3 sacks in the same game.

[Wayne Cubed]

I will bet you Seattle in 2 years looks nothing like Seattle today, in terms of talent or record.

 

The best organizations have HoF QB's. Franchise QB's don't guarantee dynasties. Ask Eli, or Flacco, or Dalton, or Rivers, or Ryan, or Cutler.

 

I think that's a fair point.

[LabattBlue]

I will bet you Seattle in 2 years looks nothing like Seattle today, in terms of talent or record.

 

The best organizations have HoF QB's. Franchise QB's don't guarantee dynasties. Ask Eli, or Flacco, or Dalton, or Rivers, or Ryan, or Cutler.

Franchise QB's don't guarantee dynasties(multiple SB's), but neither do HoF QB's(Dan Marino, etc..). Bottom line, at least a franchise QB gives you a reasonable shot at the playoffs assuming your GM can build a team as I stated previously. If he sucks at drafting, and makes poor contract decisions in terms of who stays and who goes, the team will still struggle.

Edited September 24, 2014 by LabattBlue

[RuntheDamnBall]

For sure. But the presence of the good veteran QB makes it so much easier to be patient.

 

Counter question: would you put Orton in right away if we hypothetically knew he would get us to the playoffs this year?

Only if it was a move made with EJ's development in mind, and with the idea that the team wants to work with him. I don't want to be here again in 2 years with no QB of the future. But really, as Capt. Caveman says, only if EJ is holding the team back... a lot. If we're winning, I give him that leash. This is basically the reverse of the Alex Smith / Kaepernick situation, so I tread lightly if the "upside" guy is not losing us games.

[LabattBlue]

I think it's also worth pointing out that most other rookie (and non-rookie) QBs have had much worse games than what EJ gave us last Sunday. I am not saying he played well, but I keep hearing that he fell apart, that he was terrible etc.... If that ends up being his worst game this year (I doubt it will be) we are likely to have a very successful year.

 

A completion percentage in the high 50s with 1 TD, no interceptions and 3 sacks is not falling apart. Anyone who lives in NY / NJ and is regularly shown Giants games can tell you that falling apart is Eli throwing 5 picks with 3 sacks in the same game.

Of course if you don't throw the ball downfield, throw it out of bounds, throw it at players feet, or into the turf, you won't throw many interceptions.

[Captain Caveman]

Of course if you don't throw the ball downfield, throw it out of bounds, throw it at players feet, or into the turf, you won't throw many interceptions.

 

1. He has been throwing downfield. Maybe not every drive, but there have been multiple downfield throws in each game so far. It hasn't been very effective, for a variety of reasons. It certainly gets harder to throw downfield when there is pressure coming up the middle on just about every passing down.

2. The point is, if he doesn't feel his receiver is open, he's usually doing the right thing by throwing it where it can't be intercepted.

 

Sometimes he's just been inaccurate (especially in the SD game), and he will need to do better, especially as defenses bring more pressure. I agree that he needs to play better. I don't think he played terrible, or fell apart, or that this game was an indication that he can't become a very good QB.

[Fan in Chicago]

What if two more years of "suffering" (hi Darcy) meant 7-8 years of awesome? Could you put up with this? It seems that many fans here can't. And I don't blame them to some extent, because it could very easily not be awesome at the end of those 3 years.

 

If you believe it's worth waiting, you also probably believe that Whaley will be able to keep building this team the right way, and that it will be able to contend with the aging process for Kyle, Mario and other key vets. I am on the fence about this. I do think there may be more of a window than we think, but I also don't see a lot of premium DL talent that is on the younger side on this team, aside from Dareus. And if Orton could in fact get the team to the playoffs, but the team still develops EJ, I could live with that, as well.

 

I am okay with giving said prospect 3 years, IF by the end of the second year that prospect has (1) shown marked improvement over year 1, (2) Does not show signs of bad habits rearing their ugly heads (3) not shown signs of hitting a celing

 

If the same issues are cropping up by the end of year 2, I will be in favor of bringing in legitimate competition for the job and making it clear that the position is up for grabs. Teams in today's NFL, with its simulataneous emphasis on the QB and the relative dearth of talent, can ill afford to spend another year waiting to see if that talent can develop. An incoming rookie needs to know that - rarely are you going to get a Garropolo type situation where he can learn behind a great QB for a couple of years (or until said great QB starts sucking )

[Maddog69]

 

 

Jesus this again? EJ has shown NOTHING....NOTHING AT ALL To say in 3 years he will be anything but a back up or out of the NFL entirely. Christ the good QB's show very quickly there is something there. EJ has shown **** since his very first Training camp. Russell wilson and Collin K both showed in their rookie camps they would be something special.

EJ had shown quite a bit.

Even with his accuracy issues his completion percentage is over 60%. Not terrible. His TD to INT ratio is solid.

He is 6-6 as a starter and has 4 game winning drives in the 4th qtr or overtime already in his short career (one short of the highest in the timeframe). That doesn't include the Atlanta game in Toronto where EJ led the team to a potential game winning score which was fumbled away in the fourth quarter and then did it again in OT. Both fumbles were easily within FG range.

I am by no means saying that EJ is great. I don't know how good or bad he will be. I am simply saying that I vehemently disagree with the assertion that he has "shown nothing".

[RuntheDamnBall]

I am by no means saying that EJ is great. I don't know how good or bad he will be. I am simply saying that I vehemently disagree with the assertion that he has "shown nothing".

Remember that you're talking to a brick wall here, FWIW.

[Hplarrm]

 

 

Jesus this again? EJ has shown NOTHING....NOTHING AT ALL To say in 3 years he will be anything but a back up or out of the NFL entirely. Christ the good QB's show very quickly there is something there. EJ has shown **** since his very first Training camp. Russell wilson and Collin K both showed in their rookie camps they would be something special.

 

You seem to be watching the game through totally black glasses as the tangible improvements in EJs game are not only easily seen by a non-professional such as me but they are even strongly indicated in EJs game.

 

First off, your observation that he has shown NITHING simply runs counter to the fact that the Bills with EJ as starting QB are 2 Ws and 1 L-

 

Perhaps if they were 0-3 the overstatement that he has shown NOTHING might be true, but winning in the NFL is not an easy thing. I was pleased with both of these performances by EJ. Thy were not proof he is there yet. In fact, in my mind he has always been a PROJECT and the Ws say more about how intelligent the Whaley acquisition strategy has been. Whaley/Merrone picked EJ with what appears to be that this PROJECT player would not be where we want hyim to be for 2-3 years, but Whaley focused on adding depth at RB, rebuilding the OL and getting gamebreakers at WR.

 

Watkins was great in the Miami game and believe it or not someone had to throw him the ball in order for him to have a great game.

 

2. Take a look at EJs INT total. If he showed NOTHING his numbers would look more like the 3 INTs Fitzy racked up for Houston yesterday. Yesterday was still a non-productive day for EJ and he deserves blame for the bad day. However, it is simply ridiculous to indict him for his poor play yesterday and ignore the 2 Ws he QB'ed.

 

3. He definitely had flaws in his game, but again the actual facts reflected in the stats reduces your indictment to a whine. EJ racked up a QB rating in thee low 80s last year. The QB stat is not pergect in showing reality, but its the best statiscal distillation available even though it ain't perfect. His ratings in the firt two games were in the 90s and this strongly indicates improvement over the year.

 

EJ ain't perfect if even adequate yet, but he shows good indication of improvement from last year when he was clearly to college thinking in that hje ran when he should have just let it go until he got good in his 3rd year.

[GG]

Given EJ's play, there is no choice but to wait that 3 years. The question really is do we wait with him on the field, with what looks to be less than 50% chance of success, or do we stick Orton in there and teach EJ a different lesson in making him rightfully earn the QB job. My vote is for the latter.

[Dan]

No. If your QB doesn't win the Soer Bowl every year, he needs to be cut. But why stop there? If ANY player has a bad game, they should be cut on Monday. Just call up all the good teams and trade for their best players. I do it all the time in famtasy football and it works like a charm! Championship every time!

[Captain Caveman]

No. If your QB doesn't win the Soer Bowl every year, he needs to be cut. But why stop there? If ANY player has a bad game, they should be cut on Monday. Just call up all the good teams and trade for their best players. I do it all the time in famtasy football and it works like a charm! Championship every time!

 

Dude, you don't cut them, you trade them for a 2nd round draft pick.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Dude, you don't cut them, you trade them for a 2nd round draft pick.

If only they would just get on the phone and do it.

[Fadingpain]

The spirit of the original poster's thoughts here is more abstract and philosophical, so I will address it on those terms.

 

At least that's what I think they intended.

 

But as a matter of philosophy, yes, I would throw away three Bills seasons in their entirety if it meant having a "top 3" QB in the league (let's say) for the decade after that.

 

Hell, we have been basically doing that for a decade and half (and more) as it is. We just didn't realize it....and there was never the savior QB at the end of each 3 year misery period!

 

By the way, based on what Pegula is doing with the Sabres (wisely) don't be surprised if we do see some of this philosophy in the Bills organization soon.

 

But there is a problem with the concept! You actually need to be picking #1 overall or maybe #2 to get a super-stud QB...IN A YEAR WHEN SAID QB IS AVAILABLE. (Or two).

 

That is tough to pull off. These guys are few and far between and most draft years do not have an Andrew Luck available.

 

Yes, there are a couple of exceptions, I know. I'm not into statistical deviation though as that is not helpful. It's better to play the odds and make a plan accordingly.

 

Forgive the pun, but you almost have to luck into a Luck, as Indy did. You almost can't "plan" to get one of these guys.

[Dibs]

Just answering the thread title......Hell Yes! I would wait patiently 5 years if it was guaranteed we would have a great QB. Having a great QB means that one's team will at least get to a SB....and likely win one or more......plus of course the multiple playoof appearances through their career.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Dibs

[CountDorkula]

if it takes 3 years from this year to have a great QB, we won't win a Superbowl. We're two years out from losing a couple stud free agents.

 

So... why cant we just re-sign those guys?

[Section242]

You're not really following my premise. Aaron Rodgers showed little early on as well. And "nothing" means you're unimpressed with anything including that scramble and hookup with Chandler. Also, are you Captain Hindsight?

 

Rodgers showed very little because they had Favre. They drafted Brohm after Rodgers thowing 59 passes his first three years in the league. At that point Favre's constant retirement talk wasn't tired. Rodgers and Rivers were behind elite QB's.