RuntheDamnBall Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Yes, another EJ thread. Sort of. But if you hate the guy, insert your favorite QB prospect for 2015 here and go forward. Short of somehow landing a top 2 draft position, it seems like we are rolling the dice and accepting a development curve for somebody. So, that said, would you take three years of development for the Bills' starting QB if it resulted in the kind of sustained excellence that Aaron Rodgers has achieved? We are in a much tougher spot than the Packers were in that there is no one for EJ to develop behind, safely. And EJ is not coming in to a "winning program" like GB had, even though there was coaching turnover. Even if EJ were to be benched in a "for his own good" sort of way, I think that Orton's play would pretty much be of the treading water variety. I would feel differently if he had had a full offseason with this staff. If EJ stays on the field, that means bad habits can be reinforced on-field. It also could mean he could develop more quickly than Rogers did (though I doubt this). These are unknowns. Yet, what if it did just "take time" - either way? Would you be content with this, knowing that the best is yet to come? 14 years is too long and 16 years sounds agonizing, but flip decisions by the Bills are in part the reason WHY it's taken 14 years, and one reason it has been difficult to attract top-shelf personnel and coaches. What if two more years of "suffering" (hi Darcy) meant 7-8 years of awesome? Could you put up with this? It seems that many fans here can't. And I don't blame them to some extent, because it could very easily not be awesome at the end of those 3 years. If you believe it's worth waiting, you also probably believe that Whaley will be able to keep building this team the right way, and that it will be able to contend with the aging process for Kyle, Mario and other key vets. I am on the fence about this. I do think there may be more of a window than we think, but I also don't see a lot of premium DL talent that is on the younger side on this team, aside from Dareus. And if Orton could in fact get the team to the playoffs, but the team still develops EJ, I could live with that, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 [This is an automated response] This subject matter is being currently being discussed or has already been discussed in a previous thread. Please consider using the "search" function before starting new topics. Thank you. (laffin) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 24, 2014 Author Share Posted September 24, 2014 [This is an automated response] This subject matter is being currently being discussed or has already been discussed in a previous thread. Please consider using the "search" function before starting new topics. Thank you. (laffin) Funny, but not really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 if it takes 3 years from this year to have a great QB, we won't win a Superbowl. We're two years out from losing a couple stud free agents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 I have no problem waiting if the team is seriously competing for the playoffs. Our 2-1 record is actually the real world template fir this happens even if some folks are freaked about havng the inconsistent EJ at the helm. EJ has always been a PRIJECT and likely will be th rest of this year at least. The key is for this team to be a TEAM. IF the Bills continue to have good D and the outstanding ST play they showed in beating a quality opponent on the riad and pulling off a laugher on a division opponent this TEAM can carry EJ to the playoffs as he learns the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 24, 2014 Author Share Posted September 24, 2014 if it takes 3 years from this year to have a great QB, we won't win a Superbowl. We're two years out from losing a couple stud free agents. Who is that? Dareus, CJ and Cordy? Agreed, this could be an issue especially if they don't have depth at DL or OT. I think they know better, now, but no guarantees, of course. Bradham is in that mix as well. That said, I think you're going to see some re-signings, and a great QB will make such a difference that it will mitigate some issues. I sure hope EJ becomes that guy but I would agree that the evidence doesn't yet point in his favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 (edited) Who is that? Dareus, CJ and Cordy? Agreed, this could be an issue especially if they don't have depth at DL or OT. I think they know better, now, but no guarantees, of course. Bradham is in that mix as well. That said, I think you're going to see some re-signings, and a great QB will make such a difference that it will mitigate some issues. I sure hope EJ becomes that guy but I would agree that the evidence doesn't yet point in his favor. Personally, I think our best hope to have successful Superbowl "dynasty" years like the Pats is for EJ to stink a little longer. Sign him cheap, re-sign our FA's, then he'll wake up and play at a Rivers/Ryan level and we could go to 2-3 SB's. The best time for EJ to play great to support a dynasty is right now, or right after he is re-signed. Also, keep in mind, in 3 years, KW and MW could very well be retired. Same with Graham. Edited September 24, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrod's Tailor Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 If we knew for sure greatness was coming? Yes I would. But.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 24, 2014 Author Share Posted September 24, 2014 If we knew for sure greatness was coming? Yes I would. But.... That's the risk. A risk, I hope we'd agree, that GB took as well. It was just masked by Favre's ability to keep the team competitive -- and then some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Sure, why not? I've already been waiting almost 20 years for it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 If EJ steadily gets better then that is a good situation to be in. What is his up side? I don't think that he will ever fall in the eltie category. Is playing right away going to accelerate his development or impede it? It will probably accelerate it. But the downside to that approach is that it will hinder the team in its ability to be a playoff team. I go back and forth on what are the limits to his potential. As has been frequently been noted his accuracy level is very erratic. That is very troubling. Can he improve in that area? Without a doubt he can. But the very good qbs in this league are consistently accurate even while under duress. EJ's physical tools are a plus. He is a high character person with a tremendous work ethic. Those attributes also favor his chances for success. But what is his ceiling? That is the issue that I grapple with when I watch him. He is not a refined passer and his mechanics are not consistent. Sometimes (not very often) he will make throws that wow you. But is it simply a tease? If you can't be a consistent passer then ultimately you are going to struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 24, 2014 Author Share Posted September 24, 2014 Sure, why not? I've already been waiting almost 20 years for it.... I guess the retort to that is, because you can perhaps get playoffs with a veteran who isn't great but is capable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Reminder, we don't have a first round pick in 2015, so this should be "favorite prospect that will hopefully drop to round 2". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellyto83TD Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Yes, another EJ thread. Sort of. But if you hate the guy, insert your favorite QB prospect for 2015 here and go forward. Short of somehow landing a top 2 draft position, it seems like we are rolling the dice and accepting a development curve for somebody. So, that said, would you take three years of development for the Bills' starting QB if it resulted in the kind of sustained excellence that Aaron Rodgers has achieved? We are in a much tougher spot than the Packers were in that there is no one for EJ to develop behind, safely. And EJ is not coming in to a "winning program" like GB had, even though there was coaching turnover. Even if EJ were to be benched in a "for his own good" sort of way, I think that Orton's play would pretty much be of the treading water variety. I would feel differently if he had had a full offseason with this staff. If EJ stays on the field, that means bad habits can be reinforced on-field. It also could mean he could develop more quickly than Rogers did (though I doubt this). These are unknowns. Yet, what if it did just "take time" - either way? Would you be content with this, knowing that the best is yet to come? 14 years is too long and 16 years sounds agonizing, but flip decisions by the Bills are in part the reason WHY it's taken 14 years, and one reason it has been difficult to attract top-shelf personnel and coaches. What if two more years of "suffering" (hi Darcy) meant 7-8 years of awesome? Could you put up with this? It seems that many fans here can't. And I don't blame them to some extent, because it could very easily not be awesome at the end of those 3 years. If you believe it's worth waiting, you also probably believe that Whaley will be able to keep building this team the right way, and that it will be able to contend with the aging process for Kyle, Mario and other key vets. I am on the fence about this. I do think there may be more of a window than we think, but I also don't see a lot of premium DL talent that is on the younger side on this team, aside from Dareus. And if Orton could in fact get the team to the playoffs, but the team still develops EJ, I could live with that, as well. Jesus this again? EJ has shown NOTHING....NOTHING AT ALL To say in 3 years he will be anything but a back up or out of the NFL entirely. Christ the good QB's show very quickly there is something there. EJ has shown **** since his very first Training camp. Russell wilson and Collin K both showed in their rookie camps they would be something special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 if it takes 3 years from this year to have a great QB, we won't win a Superbowl. We're two years out from losing a couple stud free agents. All NFL teams are in constant transition in terms of rosters. The best organizations know which players to re-sign and which to let go, have an eye for talent on the secondary FA market, draft well...AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, HAVE A FRANCHISE QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 24, 2014 Author Share Posted September 24, 2014 Jesus this again? EJ has shown NOTHING....NOTHING AT ALL To say in 3 years he will be anything but a back up or out of the NFL entirely. Christ the good QB's show very quickly there is something there. EJ has shown **** since his very first Training camp. Russell wilson and Collin K both showed in their rookie camps they would be something special. You're not really following my premise. Aaron Rodgers showed little early on as well. And "nothing" means you're unimpressed with anything including that scramble and hookup with Chandler. Also, are you Captain Hindsight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 (edited) Jesus this again? EJ has shown NOTHING....NOTHING AT ALL To say in 3 years he will be anything but a back up or out of the NFL entirely. Christ the good QB's show very quickly there is something there. EJ has shown **** since his very first Training camp. Russell wilson and Collin K both showed in their rookie camps they would be something special. Can you take us through what you saw from a video of Jordan Palmer... Edited September 24, 2014 by Wayne Cubed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 INdeed this subject matter is being currently being discussed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 24, 2014 Author Share Posted September 24, 2014 Reminder, we don't have a first round pick in 2015, so this should be "favorite prospect that will hopefully drop to round 2". Well, I presume they would move up if they targeted a guy they believe in and think won't fall, and the later the pick, the more likely we're expecting a development curve vs. immediate success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 All NFL teams are in constant transition in terms of rosters. The best organizations know which players to re-sign and which to let go, have an eye for talent on the secondary FA market, draft well...AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, HAVE A FRANCHISE QB. I will bet you Seattle in 2 years looks nothing like Seattle today, in terms of talent or record. The best organizations have HoF QB's. Franchise QB's don't guarantee dynasties. Ask Eli, or Flacco, or Dalton, or Rivers, or Ryan, or Cutler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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