we drafted EJ because he is a big, strong QB, right?

[Gugny]

This guy slid early tonight:

 

This is a phucking riot. Well-played.

[Dibs]

Mods have really let up on closing redundant threads.

 

It's become a daily contest to generate difffernt thread titles for the "I only like white QBs" crowd.

 

How did I miss this thread......it's a doozie.

 

Having good cognitive awareness, you undoubtedly realize that you inferred that everyone who is unhappy with EJ is a racist.

[Malazan]

Going into week 4, the Bills sit atop the AFC East at (2-1) with a very winnable game coming up. It's obvious EJ Manuel, who hasn't missed a snap, is doing everything wrong.

 

We won the 2 games because of everyone else BUT him.

We lost last week solely because OF him.

 

I mean ... how much clearer can it be?

 

Truer words never spoken.

[nonprophet]

I wouldn't really call it fighting for extra yards. The yards were there. He just chose not to take them. And in a game where they couldnt do anything offensively, I would like to see my qb put a little more effort into it. He could pull a hammy by sliding so screw injuries. Fear of injury shouldn't control his game. He can take hits if he is smart about it. Wilson is tiny and takes tons if hits.

Hamstring pulls don't require surgery and he probably wasn't expecting to sustain a knee injury which, BTW, really hurt when he chose to take those extra yards in the Cleveland game. Those extra yards didn't compensate for his absence from the rest of that game, which the Bills were winning at the time, did they?

Edited September 24, 2014 by nonprophet

[Rob's House]

I will make one attempt here to fill in between the lines, because I don’t fear human nature or discussions around how demographics influence perception. I don’t believe every insinuation that touches this facet of human nature necessarily must devolve into racism accusations.

 

My initial statement was made to key on the following suppositions, which I believe to be true in general:

 

(1) The majority of posters on the board are from a certain similar demographic. White middle class to upper middle class, with blue collar town origin. This is true of buffalo itself and the fact that basic computer literacy is a barrier to entry for this forum (as much as I hate to concede that based on some here) It pushes it up the SES scale a bit. Which is why I am going middle to middle upper class. The rest is just a mirror of b'lo

 

(2) The number of anti ej threads based on the board has been significantly higher than any topic in memory

 

(3) Those that are ready to proclaim he isn’t going to be the solution at QB are completely unable to produce statistical or historical precedent to validate this position. So it is ignored that the kid is in what has conventionally been an inconclusive phase of his career for virtually all QB’s to play the game, and has statistically performed near the top of new entrants to the role of first/second year starting NFL QB.

 

(4) The QB position has for a long time starkly contrasted the demographics of the league itself.

 

(5) the QB position is considered the face of the franchise, team leader and in most cases the player which you almost have to like and identify with to truly enjoy following a team.

 

(6) Here is the metacognitive human reality, one you need to accept for yourselves to not be afraid of this overall discussion. People tend to identify better with people they perceive to be like themselves and it’s an innate human characteristic people can either as a metacognitive recognize and address, be oblivious to but at the same time unknowingly acquiesce to, or embrace violently and emotionally at which point it devolves to a much uglier thing. If you don’t admit this then explain segregation, explain religion, explain political allegiance and explain why if you ask any realtor they will tell you people go with realtors they perceive to be like them. There are countless examples.

 

Imagine Jim Kelly, a buffalo hero, now picture him with all the same stats the same personality, the same everything- except he looks like Donovan McNabb and he comes from a rich urban east coast family. Now is he the same hero to Buffalo?

 

So based on this argument- yes I find myself reaching a generalized conclusion. Many here have an irrational appraisal of EJ’s future with the team. It’s not based in fact, it’s not supported with data, it doesn’t align with historical precedence and I have had discussions with bills fans (albeit boomers and older mostly which might also align with the board or not) who by their own admission just aren’t ready to see the demographic shift at the sports most iconic position particularly for their team.

 

SO I am not calling anyone anything. I made a postulation, then elaborated, then watched a bunch of irrational over reaction and inflammatory misinterpretation which I expect from one poster in particular who has a fallaciously inflated view of his own intellect and is clearly unable to do more than grab bits of misconstrued blurbs out of context and try to “make things more interesting”. But hey his post count is likely the most significant achievement in his pathetic little life.

 

And by all means would be very interested if there were more explanation as to why EJM hasn’t earned the same benefit of doubt that virtually every other QB in the franchise history has had?

 

Which is really just a long winded version of what I summarized as

 

(1) there's widespread outrage due to a paradigm shift at QB, and we're assured of this because you said so; (2) you think the criticisms of EJ are disproportionate to his play, and Therefore racism.

 

I primarily want to address #3 of your manifesto. There are several reasons why criticism of EJ would be greater than that of Edwards & Losman (not that they are, but it would make sense) That have nothing to do with race.

 

1. He was a 1st rd pick that virtually no one projected as the 1st QB taken.

 

2. He looks stiff , hesitant, and robotic when he plays.

 

3. He is on a team that is stacked with talent.

 

4. It's been 14 years since we saw playoffs.

 

5. EJ has yet to have one stellar game where he came out and lit it up.

 

6. (*This is a big one*)THE FO WENT ALL IN ON HIM. With the others there was always the prospect of getting another QB next year, but we don't have a first going into his 3rd year and we didn't have any legit contingency plan in place. Meaning, If EJ sucks this very talented roster goes to waste.

 

I could probably come up with more, but that should suffice for now. Next time maybe don't speak in absolutes. It may be a hot button issue for me, but I don't think many people appreciate whimsically cast unequivocal charges of racism based on a hunch.

 

 

 

Side note: Interesting how many racists were pining for Cam Newton, Russell Wilson, and Geno Smith, but why let facts get in the way.

[bbb]

Point #2 completely ignores the bulk of history on this board. How many threads and topics were there about JP, Trent, and Fitz? The obsession over the QB position is nothing new, the fact that it often divides fans into groups is also nothing new for this board.

 

Ignoring that fact makes the rest of your conclusions speculative at best, soap-boxing at worst.

 

Yup

[HeHateMe]

EJ plays much slower and weaker than he really is..

 

Slow eyes and inaccurate to a T. He has to see guys wide open before he will deliver the ball.. Rarely throws with anticipation.. has trouble maneuvering around the pocket and avoiding any pressure.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

 

Which is really just a long winded version of what I summarized as

 

 

 

I primarily want to address #3 of your manifesto. There are several reasons why criticism of EJ would be greater than that of Edwards & Losman (not that they are, but it would make sense) That have nothing to do with race.

 

1. He was a 1st rd pick that virtually no one projected as the 1st QB taken.

 

2. He looks stiff , hesitant, and robotic when he plays.

 

3. He is on a team that is stacked with talent.

 

4. It's been 14 years since we saw playoffs.

 

5. EJ has yet to have one stellar game where he came out and lit it up.

 

6. (*This is a big one*)THE FO WENT ALL IN ON HIM. With the others there was always the prospect of getting another QB next year, but we don't have a first going into his 3rd year and we didn't have any legit contingency plan in place. Meaning, If EJ sucks this very talented roster goes to waste.

 

I could probably come up with more, but that should suffice for now. Next time maybe don't speak in absolutes. It may be a hot button issue for me, but I don't think many people appreciate whimsically cast unequivocal charges of racism based on a hunch.

 

 

 

Side note: Interesting how many racists were pining for Cam Newton, Russell Wilson, and Geno Smith, but why let facts get in the way.

 

To summarize your post.

 

"I can't or don't care to comprehend your statements so I'm going to keep trying to fan some flames by twisting your words out of context into blanket accusations"

 

But hey the more you go, the more sorry I feel for you.... Buck up lad. You'll have more in life than this some day.

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

If you haven't listed to EJ's presser from yesterday, it is relevant to this thread. Hackett is only telling him to pick up 4-5 yards. Weird. Get the 1st.

http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/EJ_Manuel_Sense_of_Urgency/95e92bbe-a64f-4b7f-bddc-f06dae7701fd

[Rob's House]

 

 

To summarize your post.

 

"I can't or don't care to comprehend your statements so I'm going to keep trying to fan some flames by twisting your words out of context into blanket accusations"

 

But hey the more you go, the more sorry I feel for you.... Buck up lad. You'll have more in life than this some day.

 

Your points are not that thoughtful or nuanced. I was actually generous in my characterization of your argument. You threw out a flimsy premise and eliminated all other possibilities based on nothing. Then you try to compensate for your lacking argument with snark, which is fine I suppose, but you're not doing it well. The fact that Gregg took issue with your post is telling because this is an issue he's passionate about and on which we rarely agree.

 

FWIW, at least you came back to state your case instead of that silly **** you were doing last night, so I'll give you credit for that. You should pop in at PPP occasionally. It will be good for developing your argument skills and provide some entertainment at the same time. Seriously.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

If you haven't listed to EJ's presser from yesterday, it is relevant to this thread. Hackett is only telling him to pick up 4-5 yards. Weird. Get the 1st.

http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/EJ_Manuel_Sense_of_Urgency/95e92bbe-a64f-4b7f-bddc-f06dae7701fd

 

I'm with you. You've got a vet back up... Gotta play to win.

 

 

 

Your points are not that thoughtful or nuanced. I was actually generous in my characterization of your argument. You threw out a flimsy premise and eliminated all other possibilities based on nothing. Then you try to compensate for your lacking argument with snark, which is fine I suppose, but you're not doing it well. The fact that Gregg took issue with your post is telling because this is an issue he's passionate about and on which we rarely agree.

 

FWIW, at least you came back to state your case instead of that silly **** you were doing last night, so I'll give you credit for that. You should pop in at PPP occasionally. It will be good for developing your argument skills and provide some entertainment at the same time. Seriously.

 

Advice on argument skills!!! You give credit as if it has value?

 

Nuanced argument it wasn't. Again 6th grade level, yet somehow your reinterpretation fails every time.

 

Please don't stop. This is awesome! Classic stuff really. I find you assessing argument skill as just amazing man. Seriously. Wow.

 

 

[A Dog Named Kelso]

Which is really just a long winded version of what I summarized as

 

 

 

I primarily want to address #3 of your manifesto. There are several reasons why criticism of EJ would be greater than that of Edwards & Losman (not that they are, but it would make sense) That have nothing to do with race.

 

1. He was a 1st rd pick that virtually no one projected as the 1st QB taken.

 

2. He looks stiff , hesitant, and robotic when he plays.

 

3. He is on a team that is stacked with talent.

 

4. It's been 14 years since we saw playoffs.

 

5. EJ has yet to have one stellar game where he came out and lit it up.

 

6. (*This is a big one*)THE FO WENT ALL IN ON HIM. With the others there was always the prospect of getting another QB next year, but we don't have a first going into his 3rd year and we didn't have any legit contingency plan in place. Meaning, If EJ sucks this very talented roster goes to waste.

 

I could probably come up with more, but that should suffice for now. Next time maybe don't speak in absolutes. It may be a hot button issue for me, but I don't think many people appreciate whimsically cast unequivocal charges of racism based on a hunch.

 

 

 

Side note: Interesting how many racists were pining for Cam Newton, Russell Wilson, and Geno Smith, but why let facts get in the way.

While not agreeing with the post you are quoting I do have some thoughts.

 

1.) This has been shown to be false in other "EJ Sucks" threads. There were indeed pundits that believed EJ could go in the first round specifically to Philly

5.) The Jets home game I would think is close to lighting it up.

[Rob's House]

 

While not agreeing with the post you are quoting I do have some thoughts.

 

1.) This has been shown to be false in other "EJ Sucks" threads. There were indeed pundits that believed EJ could go in the first round specifically to Philly

5.) The Jets home game I would think is close to lighting it up.

 

1. I should have clarified that one better. It's not that no one had him as a 1st rounder, but he wasn't projected to be the first QB off the board by anyone I saw, yet we took him first.

 

5. He was good in that game and a couple others. I'm just saying he hasn't had a game where he took it over and put up the big numbers where the box score reader says "wow".

 

Just to clarify, my purpose wasn't to argue that EJ sucks, but rather to illustrate that there are reasons other than race that would explain a lack of patience by the fans.

[A Dog Named Kelso]

1. I should have clarified that one better. It's not that no one had him as a 1st rounder, but he wasn't projected to be the first QB off the board by anyone I saw, yet we took him first.

 

5. He was good in that game and a couple others. I'm just saying he hasn't had a game where he took it over and put up the big numbers where the box score reader says "wow".

 

Just to clarify, my purpose wasn't to argue that EJ sucks, but rather to illustrate that there are reasons other than race that would explain a lack of patience by the fans.

 

I completely agree.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

to illustrate that there are reasons other than race that would explain a lack of patience by the fans.

 

Now we are breaking through.

 

Other than but including or only other than?

 

Also is it racism to want a qb you identify more with than the one that is there? I say not necessarily which is why I never used the word.

 

Say I'd subconsciously rather Thad Lewis because he's from my law school alma mater so I want ej to fail. Is that really as vile as an "ism"?

[Rob's House]

 

 

Now we are breaking through.

 

Other than but including or only other than?

 

Also is it racism to want a qb you identify more with than the one that is there? I say not necessarily which is why I never used the word.

 

Say I'd subconsciously rather Thad Lewis because he's from my law school alma mater so I want ej to fail. Is that really as vile as an "ism"?

 

I may not consider it racism, but I think the average member of our society would. And whether it was your intent, That is how the claim you made will be interpreted. And in a society that's as sensitive toward racism as ours that's an accusation that should not be taken lightly.

 

Think about it this way. What do you think would happen to any public figure who suggested he preferred a white QB (or to use your original statement, didn't like black QBs) because he relates better to people who look like him?

[YoloinOhio]

Schopp and Bulldog - turned them on for 2 minutes to hear Joe B and they are going off about EJ's "running." Wow do they hate him.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

 

I may not consider it racism, but I think the average member of our society would. And whether it was your intent, That is how the claim you made will be interpreted. And in a society that's as sensitive toward racism as ours that's an accusation that should not be taken lightly.

 

Think about it this way. What do you think would happen to any public figure who suggested he preferred a white QB (or to use your original statement, didn't like black QBs) because he relates better to people who look like him?

 

Public figures are different than sports fans on chat boards. To me chat boards should be playgrounds to discuss things and agrue with like minded folks for entertainment.

 

And I never said "didn't like black" I said "only like white qbs" meaning a preference of a more identifiable demographic at THAT key position. I can decide I only want a realtor that is the same age is me, but I don't think I'm ageist.

 

yes I could have said "prefer" to be less inflamitory.. Which I am not trying to be. Just that many people feel a need to project themselves into identifiable personalities as part of their fanhood and it may be difficult for some typical Buf fans to identify with ej. I read a similar thing about keapernick once because of his tats.

 

Just again trying to understand why there is so little b.o.d offered to this kid 13 games into his career, For which now you and others have offered other alternatives after dispensing with the racism thing which was never my specific intent.

 

But I have yet to understand how one of those offered generates such a deeply rooted emotional response such as what I've seen, but at least there are thoughts.

 

 

 

 

 

Schopp and Bulldog - turned them on for 2 minutes to hear Joe B and they are going off about EJ's "running." Wow do they hate him.

 

Since I've been off topic so much Anyway... I think schopp wrote an open letter to the Sabres hoping they blow the season for this amazing prospect..... Wtf guys? Really?

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Since I've been off topic so much Anyway... I think schopp wrote an open letter to the Sabres hoping they blow the season for this amazing prospect..... Wtf guys? Really?

haha. Not surprising. Edited September 24, 2014 by YoloinOhio

[seq004]

I thought we drafted him for his running ability, because his arm has never been accurate. They wanted him to be like Cam or Russell Wilson.