The Finer Points of OL Play

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

In the JETS game I kept yelling RUN to the outside!!!

 

When they did and gained very little I said cr@p that didn't work either.

[BigBuff423]

That really is some good stuff....thanks for sharing bandit...inside information on blocking schemes and assignments, helps us all keep things in perspective if we're willing to admit our own lack of understanding when it comes to gap assignments and player responsibilities...also, explains why guys like Osemele (sp?) get good contract extensions and most of us say, "Who?', or Boling...and we scratch our heads and yell to the FO, "Why not Boone??!!", yet, these guys at least in these highlights quietly do their job well, with no fan-fare. And, thanks for updating periodically as well!! Keeps it fresh.

[thebandit27]

A few more excellent examples of how thin the margin is between no gain and a big running play, courtesy of the 49ers:

 

http://www.ninersnation.com/2014/10/8/6945637/all-22-film-breakdown-the-49ers-return-to-their-strenghts

 

If the RB misses the tiny crease, or a LB doesn't overrun a gap, these plays don't happen.

 

Common theme continues to emerge: OLs don't dominate opposing DLs in the NFL; they create temporary gaps that the RB has a moment to hit.

[thebandit27]

I figured I'd throw this in here since we haven't had too much Bills-related content in this thread:

 

http://www.buffaloru...d-anthony-dixon

 

As has been discussed, Buffalo's run game is predicated on inside zone. The author has it close to correct when he says this:

 

"The goal is to establish a double team block at the point of attack, and then have one of the linemen move up and block the linebacker at the second level. That follows the general rule of zone blocking: if there's a guy in front of you, block him; if not, double someone and then move up to the second level."

 

It's just not exactly correct. On an inside zone play, the action (i.e. direction of the blocking) is called for either the open or closed side of the formation. The job of each blocker is to block the player in the gap to that side of the play. In the example play linked above, the action is to the right (the open/weak side on this play), and so the job of each blocker is to block the player in the gap immediately to his right. If there is no player fitting in that gap, then his job isn't exactly to double-team anyone, but rather to turn back to the player in the gap on his left and give him a hard bump (driving through his play-side shoulder) before climbing up to the second level. The only time a blocker's job is to immediately hit the second level is when neither of these gaps is occupied.

 

With that in mind, look at the second screen shot again:

 

 

Erik Pears has missed his chance to create an enormous hole in the Vikings' front when he chooses to simply laying a hand on the 1-technique (Linval Joseph), which leaves Eric Wood 1-on-1 and trying to extend out and get the NT's shoulders turned. Had Pears driven through the play-side shoulder of the 1-technique, assuming Wood still does his job, he'd have had plenty of time to climb up and fit on the Mike. In other words, picture the following, only with Wood's shoulders turned a la Lee Smith:

 

 

It's little things like this that hurt the running game.

Edited November 5, 2014 by thebandit27

[John from Riverside]

I figured I'd throw this in here since we haven't had too much Bills-related content in this thread:

 

http://www.buffaloru...d-anthony-dixon

 

As has been discussed, Buffalo's run game is predicated on inside zone. The author has it close to correct when he says this:

 

"The goal is to establish a double team block at the point of attack, and then have one of the linemen move up and block the linebacker at the second level. That follows the general rule of zone blocking: if there's a guy in front of you, block him; if not, double someone and then move up to the second level."

 

It's just not exactly correct. On an inside zone play, the action (i.e. direction of the blocking) is called for either the open or closed side of the formation. The job of each blocker is to block the player in the gap to that side of the play. In the example play linked above, the action is to the right (the open/weak side on this play), and so the job of each blocker is to block the player in the gap immediately to his right. If there is no player fitting in that gap, then his job isn't exactly to double-team anyone, but rather to turn back to the player in the gap on his left and give him a hard bump (driving through his play-side shoulder) before climbing up to the second level. The only time a blocker's job is to immediately hit the second level is when neither of these gaps is occupied.

 

With that in mind, look at the second screen shot again:

 

 

Erik Pears has missed his chance to create an enormous hole in the Vikings' front when he chooses to simply laying a hand on the 1-technique (Linval Joseph), which leaves Eric Wood 1-on-1 and trying to extend out and get the NT's shoulders turned. Had Pears driven through the play-side shoulder of the 1-technique, assuming Wood still does his job, he'd have had plenty of time to climb up and fit on the Mike. In other words, picture the following, only with Wood's shoulders turned a la Lee Smith:

 

 

It's little things like this that hurt the running game.

 

It sure does look that way.....expecially because the Fullback looks like he has done (or is about to do) his job pretty well.

[Matt in KC]

...

 

It's little things like this that hurt the running game.

Nice write up!

 

It sure looks like there would have been a huge hole on this play if Pears had delivered that bump/drive. Then again, if he was too slow, it looks like the LB would have had a clean shot at Spiller. And there's our problem, I think. Pears is just not nimble enough.

[bowery4]

Nice write up!

 

It sure looks like there would have been a huge hole on this play if Pears had delivered that bump/drive. Then again, if he was too slow, it looks like the LB would have had a clean shot at Spiller. And there's our problem, I think. Pears is just not nimble enough.

Um it's not Spiller Pear's picked the wrong guy and seems to have gotten to him fast enough. I think this might be on any number of players though. Line calls come from Wood, sometimes are changed by Orton, Summers might actually have the responsibility...it is hard to know for sure. BTW I still have to find time to read the links! So if I am wrong in my assumptions, I apologize in advance.

[Thurman#1]

EDIT:

 

This thread began as a talking point regarding the Bills' OL post-week-2, but has since evolved to become an open discussion on the finer points of OL play. I'll be updating it weekly with Ben Muth's columns to stimulate further discussion on what many of us appear to believe is a noteworthy topic

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I think we're all being appropriately critical of the OL play this year, particularly in the run game. I want to provide some perspective on the subject, as dictated by Football Outsiders' Ben Muth--a former OG from Stanford who breaks down film for several media outlets.

 

http://www.footballo...ars-upset-49ers

 

Relevant text:

 

Even the best linemen in the NFL are not the bulldozers they are often portrayed to be. They are not knocking guys 5 yards off the ball and dumping them on their backs. You'll see the odd play like that, but they are very few and far in between. What an actual dominant offensive lineman looks like is a guard hooking a three technique off the snap, forcing him to lose his gap, and driving him 1 or 2 yards off the ball as the running back hits a nice little lane in the B gap. It's not an offensive tackle crumpling some guy with a massive punch in pass protection; it's staying between your man and the quarterback for all 40 pass attempts. This isn't high school. Being dominant in the NFL means just doing your job consistently and relentlessly for four quarters of a game.

 

So what's the point? The point is, I think we're all expecting too much from our OL, and not putting enough onus on the skill positions.

 

This OL isn't getting the QB killed, and I have a hunch if we all looked critically at the All-22 we'd see running lanes that the RBs aren't making full use of on a play-by-play basis.

 

IMO this is an important point to keep in mind as the season progresses.

 

 

Football Outsiders are the group that now has the Bills OL 25th in the league in adjusted sack rate and 29th in the league in Adjusted Line Yards, their own stat.

 

We're not asking too much of the OL. They're just not delivering enough.

[Matt in KC]

Um it's not Spiller ...

I think I'm blocking out that he and Jackson got hurt as best I can. Let me have my delusions, please!

[thebandit27]

Um it's not Spiller Pear's picked the wrong guy and seems to have gotten to him fast enough. I think this might be on any number of players though. Line calls come from Wood, sometimes are changed by Orton, Summers might actually have the responsibility...it is hard to know for sure. BTW I still have to find time to read the links! So if I am wrong in my assumptions, I apologize in advance.

 

It's true that Wood/Orton can/will adjust blocking sets at the line...typically it's which second-level players the scheme is centered around getting after. They wouldn't, however, adjust from an inside zone blocking concept to something else, so Pears' initial assignment wouldn't change; he's still supposed to knock the 1-technique's play-side shoulder, not just gingerly place his hand there. What Orton or Wood might adjust would be something like moving Pears' second-level assignment from the MLB to the WLB...that's one of those situations where the QB points at a defender and says "54 is the Mike"; he's telling the OLmen where to climb on a running play (or where to slide protection on a pass).

 

Football Outsiders are the group that now has the Bills OL 25th in the league in adjusted sack rate and 29th in the league in Adjusted Line Yards, their own stat.

 

We're not asking too much of the OL. They're just not delivering enough.

 

It's both IMO. If you watch a lot of All-22 from around the league, very few teams are blowing defenses off the ball in the running game. Most of the time, it's tiny creases that the RB needs to hit quickly for 4 yards that make the running game work. That's actually what this entire thread is about if you take the time to read through it (which I know based on the content and number of links is asking a lot, so please don't take that the wrong way).

[bowery4]

Bandit, I am not arguing with you but I do see Qbs around the league also point at line players (DTs like Darius and Kyle or ends like Mario) and say things to the Oline men or RBs and TEs on occasion. I do realize that what you say is correct of course but it does happen especially if they audible on the play. I just did get to click one link I have got to read more though, love this post and some of the discussion. Please keep it going as the season goes on.

 

BTW trivia question, what linebacker/hybrid from the recent past "was the Mike" that Tom Brady liked to call out and was in discussion on this board for quite a while, since he was there mostly to cover Gronk but couldn't.

Edited November 6, 2014 by bowery4

[thebandit27]

Bandit, I am not arguing with you but I do see Qbs around the league also point at line players (DTs like Darius and Kyle or ends like Mario) and say things to the Oline men or RBs and TEs on occasion. I do realize that what you say is correct of course but it does happen especially if they audible on the play. I just did get to click one link I have got to read more though, love this post and some of the discussion. Please keep it going as the season goes on

 

Yeah man I gotcha--this type of discussion is why this thread exists, so no need to worry about offending me or anyone else. I only meant to mention that typically the QB's adjustments are for second-level defenders, as linemen almost always know they're blocking zone, man, or slide (half the line in zone, half in man). If the QB or C adjusts based on a DLmen, it's usually because he sees either a zone blitz or stunt coming.

 

I actually should have another update this afternoon, and will be happy to keep the thread going to promote this kind of discussion...with the resources we have at our finger tips these days, there's no excuse for the common fan not to gain a better understanding of OL play IMO.

[ALF]

Thanks bandit this is great info.

 

Would keeping a blocking TE on the OL be practical till the Bills OL can settle down ?

[thebandit27]

Thanks bandit this is great info.

 

Would keeping a blocking TE on the OL be practical till the Bills OL can settle down ?

 

My pleasure.

 

Sure, that's an approach. It's even more viable if you have a bevy of targets that can consistently get open, and a QB than is too dangerous to blitz. I point to the NE game from this very season...Buffalo was all over Brady in the first half, sacking him twice and hitting him 3 other times that I can specifically remember. In the 2nd half, most of NE's pass plays featured 7 or 8-man protection schemes. There isn't a straight-up 4-man rush in the world that will compete with those numbers, and Buffalo was worried enough about blitzing Brady that they refused to bring extra pressure, so the added protection helped him pick us apart.

 

Where you can get yourself in trouble in those scenarios is when teams run fire zones and other zone blitz/pressure packages that still feature 4-man rushes, but use misdirection and disguises to throw off the blocking scheme (much like Pettine did last year--probably the biggest reason Brady didn't have huge games against Buffalo in 2013). At that point, your blocking front really needs to communicate well, and the QBs/WRs have to be on the same page.

 

So, in short, yes, that's practical...the team needs to be prepared for the inevitable defensive adjustment(s) and ensure communication is sound.

[boyst]

It is the calls at the line that seem to be making the biggest difference. Communication and synchronization. You hear the term the OL has to gel a lot - and this is exactly what they mean. The OL is not communicating and working together efficiently to run block.

 

The pass blocking is not horrible but the run blocking is.

[Wooderson]

Bandit, I am not arguing with you but I do see Qbs around the league also point at line players (DTs like Darius and Kyle or ends like Mario) and say things to the Oline men or RBs and TEs on occasion. I do realize that what you say is correct of course but it does happen especially if they audible on the play. I just did get to click one link I have got to read more though, love this post and some of the discussion. Please keep it going as the season goes on.

 

BTW trivia question, what linebacker/hybrid from the recent past "was the Mike" that Tom Brady liked to call out and was in discussion on this board for quite a while, since he was there mostly to cover Gronk but couldn't.

 

"43's the Mike." Bryan Scott.

[Peter]

I love this thread and discussion.

 

This is an example of how good TBD can be.

[Zona]

my opinion is that the rb's vision, or lack thereof is the biggest reason behind our lack of a run game. Fred has the best vision of all our backs. He sees the hole, sets up his blockers and gets as much as he can. CJ uses speed as his primary ability, and sometimes chooses poorly. Boobie runs straight ahead, and does not read blocks, or see holes. And Brown has the worst vision of just about any back i have seen. He sees holes that are not there, and completely misses the one right in front of him. The example Bandit just showed us is a prime example of brown's lack of vision. Just hit the damn hole in front of you instead of trying to cut back into a much smaller hole. The primary run right play design has a man on a man, all blocked, with an opening that most backs would have been able to exploit for a positive gain. Brown cuts back and gets nada...

 

maybe that is why he has been sitting...

[3rdand12]

my opinion is that the rb's vision, or lack thereof is the biggest reason behind our lack of a run game. Fred has the best vision of all our backs. He sees the hole, sets up his blockers and gets as much as he can. CJ uses speed as his primary ability, and sometimes chooses poorly. Boobie runs straight ahead, and does not read blocks, or see holes. And Brown has the worst vision of just about any back i have seen. He sees holes that are not there, and completely misses the one right in front of him. The example Bandit just showed us is a prime example of brown's lack of vision. Just hit the damn hole in front of you instead of trying to cut back into a much smaller hole. The primary run right play design has a man on a man, all blocked, with an opening that most backs would have been able to exploit for a positive gain. Brown cuts back and gets nada...

 

maybe that is why he has been sitting...

For Brown. Its one game after a lot of no games.

The rhythm and timing between the RB and the line is no small feat to dial in i might guess. brown gets a pass. Spiller not so much. Boobie might be bit better than we would think. especially if he can see daylight to the linebacker.

Its a fine line for these guys. I think that is quite alot of our Bandits point ?

Details details. execution awareness trust and timing. Thats why i love watching the O line. Well not this year so much. But its cool to see how they set up and then move after the snap.

I never watched this stuff till my son was playing Pop Warner years ago.

Nowadays thats where i set my eyes just before the snap.

 

I love this thread and discussion.

 

This is an example of how good TBD can be.

I could not agree more Peter ,

a thanks is in order. Thanks!

i hope you guys can keep this going till seasons end. Now that Urbik is in and The Marrone has announced that the line needs attention , i should would be pleased to hear more from the trained eyes around here.

[Zona]

I would agree with you 3rd, about Brown only having one game with us, but all his film and highlights show him improvising, looking for holes. He has never shown me the ability to be an every down back.

 

As far as our oline and run blocking, i think back to the switch at QB from Edwards to Fitzpatrick. We went from the most sacked team in the league to the fewest sacked team in the league in one season. With the same players. All because Fitz would fire the ball out, or escape if he had to. The style and characteristics of the qb changed the success or failure of the oline.

 

The same things apply to Rb's. If we had a true number 1, instead of an aging guy with slightly less then number 1 talent, then i think our oline would be much better. And our oline has new guys, in new positions, trying to learn to play together. AND-throw in a new QB in week 5, and i dont think they are nearly as bad as the "experts" or us fans think. Give them some more time together and coaching and they may be OK.

 

Any way i look at it though, i see the bills drafting a rb early next year. One of our first two picks i think.