A Few Thougts About The Game, in no particular order.....

[GaryPinC]

Yet, they're conducting this experiment during the regular season with the rest of the team trying to win, and they have a QB with training wheels on. How do you think the WRs feel when they're asked to stretch out for a poorly thrown ball to pick up a first down, while the QB falls down two yards short of a first down with nobody on top of him?

 

The WR's and team will eventually stop putting the effort in. I agree with you, got to force Manuel to take some shots.

 

Sadly, it appears we missed the boat with Pettine. I've been really impressed with how the Browns play ball. They aren't afraid to take chances despite not a lot of talent, no receivers, a solid but noodle-armed quarterback, decent but not spectacular o-line. Yesterday vs Baltimore with about 2 minutes to go Cleveland got the ball around the 10 and leading by one. I knew Pettine would throw for the first down (which the receiver dropped) and I wondered if Marrone/Hackett would have just done 3 straight runs.

 

Got to be aggressive. Our biggest problem on offense by far.

[Mango]

I get what you're saying. But, you're neglecting the coaching factor. Good coaches game plan to take the other team's best players out of the game. Bad coaches just line their players up and expect them to beat the man in front of them.

 

This isn't college ball. Every team has great players. All the rah rah in the world isn't going to win you much, you can't just out muscle your opponent. This coaching staff has a huge weapon in CJ Spiller and they're completely misusing him with these draw plays up the middle.

 

CJ is playing well out there. He had at least one great run called back on a hold. He misses a lot of playing time, because the coaches keep taking him off the field. At some point, the coaching staff have to figure out a way to get him more involved in a game, but they've yet to do that other than on kick offs. IMO, it shows a fundamental lack of creativity and ingenuity on their part.

 

I think the opposite, kind of, of Spiller. I would like him off the field more. He kills drives, he just does. Unless we are running plays where the goal is to get him in space to do what he does, he doesn't belong out there. If the play is running between the tackles, or leaving a back in for pass protection, he has no business. He would thrive in a system that gets him more screens and outside plays. If the goal is to get Spiller the ball more, we need more of these plays, not just keep him on the field for the sake of it. I am not sure why we didn't get Fred involved more yesterday. He was the better grinding back yesterday.

[Mayhem]

So, wait. No one is blaming CJ today? Dude had 25 yards. He is a starting RB and only got 25 yards. Total he had 62 yards from scrimmage? If he was not CJ Spiller he might be a backup on any other team.

 

He isn't even in the top 25 backs for the season.

 

If he is supposed to be this great back, why isn't he running like one?

I really wish they would give the ball to Fred more often. He has a lot fewer negative plays than Spiller. Spiller has the game breaker speed and every time he touches the ball he could get a TD but how often does he?

[Dan]

I think the opposite, kind of, of Spiller. I would like him off the field more. He kills drives, he just does. Unless we are running plays where the goal is to get him in space to do what he does, he doesn't belong out there. If the play is running between the tackles, or leaving a back in for pass protection, he has no business. He would thrive in a system that gets him more screens and outside plays. If the goal is to get Spiller the ball more, we need more of these plays, not just keep him on the field for the sake of it. I am not sure why we didn't get Fred involved more yesterday. He was the better grinding back yesterday.

And I agree with you. Play to your player's strengths. Have CJ and Fred on the field at the same time for every snap! Some times hand off to Fred to pound the line, sometimes dump it to CJ on the out side, sometimes run CJ across the formation and hand off, sometimes don't and pictch to Fred. Bottom line, have our play makers on the field, keep the defense guessing, don't ask your players to do things they're not best at.

[dave mcbride]

In the last dozen games going back to last season, the Bills have started off the game by running up the middle 11 times (9 times by Spiller). In 8 of the 12 games, the first two plays from scrimmage were runs up the middle, and mostly for very little yardage. I could have gone further back on pro-football-reference.com, but I felt that the mind-numbing predictability of game the Bills' game opening play strategy had been established after looking at 12 straight games.

Edited September 22, 2014 by dave mcbride

[Dan]

In the last dozen games going back to last season, the Bills have started off the game by running up the middle 11 times (9 times by Spiller). In 8 of the 12 games, the first two plays from scrimmage were runs up the middle, and mostly for very little yardage. I could have gone further back on pro-football-reference.com, but I felt that the mind-numbing predictability of game the Bills' game opening play strategy had been established after looking at 12 straight games.

Precisely... EJ starts slow and when you add in his slow eyes, it obviously takes him a while to get warmed up. It's obvious we need a more experienced QB to hand the ball off with more accuracy.

 

[Captain Hindsight]

Yet, they're conducting this experiment during the regular season with the rest of the team trying to win, and they have a QB with training wheels on. How do you think the WRs feel when they're asked to stretch out for a poorly thrown ball to pick up a first down, while the QB falls down two yards short of a first down with nobody on top of him?

I'm not saying its ideal, just the reality.

 

Like I said though, how they respond is far more important.

 

The WR's and team will eventually stop putting the effort in. I agree with you, got to force Manuel to take some shots.

 

Sadly, it appears we missed the boat with Pettine. I've been really impressed with how the Browns play ball. They aren't afraid to take chances despite not a lot of talent, no receivers, a solid but noodle-armed quarterback, decent but not spectacular o-line. Yesterday vs Baltimore with about 2 minutes to go Cleveland got the ball around the 10 and leading by one. I knew Pettine would throw for the first down (which the receiver dropped) and I wondered if Marrone/Hackett would have just done 3 straight runs.

 

Got to be aggressive. Our biggest problem on offense by far.

The Browns will be a tough out every game. Just like the Bills first year with Gailey. Until they actually win those games it means nothing

[LabattBlue]

Two things...

 

1 - This game wasn't nearly as close as the score indicates. It was one sided for most of the game

 

2 - I hate boring football and attending this game in person, it was BORING beyond belief.

[CardinalScotts]

God # 11 and 12 yes!!! Remember this it's a LONG season get to 3-1 in the first quarter of the schedule. This team will play their best football in November December but we have to win enough games in sept oct...

[Ripkord65]

I said this was going to happen. Get ready, because they're going to lose a lot more games. The Bills are not a good team. EJ is pathetic, as is the entire coaching staff.

[Deranged Rhino]

I said this was going to happen. Get ready, because they're going to lose a lot more games. The Bills are not a good team. EJ is pathetic, as is the entire coaching staff.

 

Good thing they have fans like you to pick them up when they're down.

[thewildrabbit]

Two things...

 

1 - This game wasn't nearly as close as the score indicates. It was one sided for most of the game

 

2 - I hate boring football and attending this game in person, it was BORING beyond belief.

Not entirely, even for Bills fans, and if you are a Chargers fan then this was exactly what Rivers does to win games.

 

As an NFL fan I admire that the Chargers got to EJ with rushing their front four most of the game, and as good as the Bills front four is, they can't seem to accomplish this same thing.

 

I also have to admire that Chargers offense in running constantly for almost no gain just as a diversion, and that no matter what the down and distance is on third down that Philip Rivers manages to complete a pass for the first down. He manages to make those first down throws because his O line gives him time in the pocket to comfortably find the open receiver. Which is something that doesn't always happen for EJ. The Bills 5 linemen, with the RB and TE chipping can't defend against the Chargers four D linemen... downright pathetic.

 

No DB, no matter how good they are will look good when you don't have any pressure on the opposing QB. Yea folks, that was ex Buffalo Bill Chad Rinehart at LG for the Chargers

 

 

On another note, after reading many posts in this thread it's so refreshing to see that others see things mostly the same way I do. Hackett sucks, and really doesn't know how to utilize either Spiller or Fred Jackson, and neither one of those two backs are built for up the middle running with no holes. The OG's on this team are a huge liability, and will likely sink this coaching staff after this year. JMO.

 

Bottom line the Bills just played a 2014 playoff caliber team, and it showed all their deficiencies most profoundly.

[JohnC]

 

 

Lastly: way, way, way too many penalties. This team needs to develop some discipline and in a hurry. Too many big plays wiped out by stupid penalties.

 

That's all for me.

 

The problem with the excessive amount of penalties isn't a promblem associated with this particular game but with the the referees are strictly enforcing the rules. I'm not blaming the refs for the tight way they are calling penalties because they have been instructed by the league to emphasize particular rules such as not impeding the receivers and not allowing even inadvertent touching of the face. They have no choice but to throw away their discretion and common sense because they are being graded on how they enforce the rules.

 

For me the games have become almost unwatchable. There is little continuity in the play and after every incomplete pass there is an expectation of a flag to follow. As opposed to most critics of our DBs I have little problem with their play. Against a good qb such as Rivers they don't stand a chance because as the rules are currently interpreted they are dramatically skewed toward the advantages of the offense. It's my opinion that the lack of common sense and good judgment in officating the games has damaged the game.

[Bill from NYC]

I agree with all of that.

 

 

 

I haven't made any excuses for Gilmore. He didn't play well yesterday, and he was 3rd in line for "worst CB performance" was my only point.

 

In a game where Rivers attempts 25 passes, if we're laying a significant portion of the blame at the feet of a player that was targeted 5 times for 3 completions, something is quite amiss IMO.

 

Bandit, I trust that by now that you know that I value our dialogue. That said, I must strongly disagree with you.

 

You probably know more about corners than me but when I evaluate them, I don't go by pure stats. I look at the passes that they gave up. Were they TDs? Were they key first downs? Gilmore gives up plays like this consistently.

As far as Gilmore on running plays yesterday, he was flat out disgraceful and this is not hyperbole.

 

I didn't love the Spiller selection either, but he took over the Miami game, and I was here singing his praises.

 

Imo you don't THINK you are doing it, but it seem as if you really are part of the Gilmore excuse machine. He was a # freaking 10 selection in an NFL Draft.

It's time for him to take over a game and win one for us, let alone not stink up the field.

 

Be well and GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited September 22, 2014 by Bill from NYC

[gomper]

I'd add that Frank called a great game and totally outwitted Schwartz....and, I love a "When push comes to shove" nod. Always loved that song...so much room for Jerry to rip. Too bad it had a short shelf life. Kind of like this season if EJ, the O-line, and the DB's don't start to play better.

[nonprophet]

And I agree with you. Play to your player's strengths. Have CJ and Fred on the field at the same time for every snap! Some times hand off to Fred to pound the line, sometimes dump it to CJ on the out side, sometimes run CJ across the formation and hand off, sometimes don't and pictch to Fred. Bottom line, have our play makers on the field, keep the defense guessing, don't ask your players to do things they're not best at.

+1

 

Spiller could be split out as a WR by putting him in motion, if necessary. The Bills don't have two premier TEs to punish a defense with but they do have two premier RBs.

[BADOLBILZ]

Bandit, I trust that by now that you know that I value our dialogue. That said, I must strongly disagree with you.

 

You probably know more about corners than me but when I evaluate them, I don't go by pure stats. I look at the passes that they gave up. Were they TDs? Were they key first downs? Gilmore gives up plays like this consistently.

As far as Gilmore on running plays yesterday, he was flat out disgraceful and this is not hyperbole.

 

I didn't love the Spiller selection either, but he took over the Miami game, and I was here singing his praises.

 

Imo you don't THINK you are doing it, but it seem as if you really are part of the Gilmore excuse machine. He was a # freaking 10 selection in an NFL Draft.

It's time fort him to take over a game and win one for us, let alone not stink up the field.

 

Be well and GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I discussed this some with Bandit in the Shoutbox and via pm but there is a competitiveness issue with Gilmore.

 

He doesn't finish plays.

 

It's been going on for 3 seasons.

 

Fans can see something is wrong but they can't put their finger on it because it is unusual to see incomplete effort from the cornerback position, but that is what is happening.

[jaybee]

sorry they didn't win, but at least you got to spend time with him.

 

happy birthday to him!

 

+1. Very cool that you got to watch the game with your Dad on his big day. Yea, Happy Birthday to him.

[Bill from NYC]

 

 

I discussed this some with Bandit in the Shoutbox and via pm but there is a competitiveness issue with Gilmore.

 

He doesn't finish plays.

 

It's been going on for 3 seasons.

 

Fans can see something is wrong but they can't put their finger on it because it is unusual to see incomplete effort from the cornerback position, but that is what is happening.

 

Agree, and that is a great description. On many of the crucial passes that he does give up, he isn't always flat out destroyed. He is beat by JUST enough for the offensive play to work. The problem is that things like this lose football games.

 

I think that aside from the qb position, the Bills have a better than average roster. It's confusing at times mind you, but there is a lot of talent. That said, with us being shaky at QB, the positional players have to step up more.

 

How are we doing in terms of TOP this season? Not that great? A few plays by Gilmore really could even this out and be a tremendous help to this football team. Better guard play would kick ass but I digress.

 

This Sunday is a big test, no? If Gilmore is any good, one would think that this is a game in which he could surely step up.

 

Let's hope!

[JohnC]

 

 

I discussed this some with Bandit in the Shoutbox and via pm but there is a competitiveness issue with Gilmore.

 

He doesn't finish plays.

 

It's been going on for 3 seasons.

 

[b[Fans can see something is wrong but they can't put their finger on it because it is unusual to see incomplete effort from the cornerback position, but that is what is happening.[/b]

 

Last year Gilmore was playing with a cast on his hand due to a broken wrist. This offseason he had hip surgery. He has also been affected by a severe groin injury. What you consider to be "incomplete effort" is he doing his best while playing with a painful and limiting groin problem.

 

As I stated in a prior post the way the rules are being enforced immensely advantaging the receivers over the DBs. This is not excuse making. It is a major factor in all the games. Rivers is a top tier qb who demonstrated his high qb rankings by making a lot of high quality throws. Considering the lack of pass pressure and the way that Rivers quickly got rid of the ball to the right option I don't believe that our DBs played as poorly as some are portraying.

 

The difference is this game was mostly due to the stark discrepancy between the teams' qbs. Of coures there were other factos such as the poor play of our OL. But it's my view that the play of our DBs was not a major factor in the outcome of this game.

Edited September 22, 2014 by JohnC