A Few Thougts About The Game, in no particular order.....

[TheBackupQB]

I know its not reality but I just think EJ is trying too hard...coaches have to give him more freedom...and I hate the read option as the staple of your running game.... go Power I,

[tennesseeboy]

We played badly and lost. However the fact that the SD offense only got 20 points is some testimony to our defense (which got beat in TOO MANY long passes.) EJ sucked, but he had a few moments and I'd expect him to get better. I don't see us in an awful position. Time to put on the big boy pants, put in the work and get things on track against a good Texan team.

[BADOLBILZ]

I came to this thread to see if anyone at all had any perspective.

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

McKelvin was horrible; Gilmore was targeted 5 times and gave up 3 completions all day--one of them was while he was engaged with a blocker. He struggled mightily on two run plays and that was brutal, but honestly, if we're picking on DBs it needs to start with McKelvin, who was victimized repeatedly and for huge gains, and Robey, who gave up a 49-yarder (although he was a victim of OPI that wasn't called) and was subsequently benched.

 

Buffalo's OL didn't generate enough push in the run game, which was a result of being unable to hit a few deeper throws early on. They needed to pull SD's LBs up toward the LOS and back the safeties off...never happened.

 

The biggest defensive liability of all was Preston Brown. San Diego's entire offensive game plan in the first half was to target Brown wherever he was on the field. It worked. I also noticed that they were willing to blitz in the first 3 quarters, whereas Buffalo chose not to send more than 4 pass rushers until the 4th quarter--way too late.

 

What was most concerning to me, defensively, was that we were out-coached. We had no trouble stuffing the run game, as SD's OL generated next to no push. For the 3rd consecutive game, Buffalo's run D held its ground. The issue I have is that we need to be willing to blitz on days when teams are committed to not letting our front 4 get pressure. If you give a QB like Rivers all day he's going to beat you. SD used 6 to block 4 most of the game and it worked...on the flip side, they were willing to send 5, 6, or 7 to generate pressure when they needed to, and it worked.

 

All that can be overcome if you get a great game from your QB; Buffalo didn't. Way too many missed opportunities in the passing game, and EJ is going to need to rebound quickly. The good news it that his 2 worst performances last year (@ TB and @ Pit) were generally followed up by very good games (@ Jax and vs. NYJ, respectively). He cannot afford to play that way.

 

Lastly: way, way, way too many penalties. This team needs to develop some discipline and in a hurry. Too many big plays wiped out by stupid penalties.

 

That's all for me.

 

The expectation ship sailed on McKelvin 5 years ago so you guys can stop trying to deflect criticism from Gilmore. Leodis had a nice rebound year last year but he was already accepted as a busted first round pick even if he remained a steady player for the back end of his career. Guys drafted where McKelvin and Gilmore were drafted are expected to be able to defend a #2/#3 like Malcolm Floyd or a washout like Donald Brown. The Gilmore hype and excuse factory has shielded him well to this point, but when you play lazy, undisciplined football you deserve to be called out. We know he doesn't have elite cover skills, but this guy is supposed to make up for that with size, strength and competitiveness and he played flat out weak.

 

All of that being said, we saw today the difference between Pettine and Schwartz D. Pettine's D put players in position to make game changing plays. McKelvin and Robey thrived in it. That style plays very well at home as evidenced by early season wins against opponents like Baltimore and Carolina last year. It was more run permissive......but I'd be interested to see what a better overall LB corps would have done with Pettine because his Jets defenses weren't universally bad against the run. Basically, last year the only reliable LB Pettine had was Kiko.

[Fan in Chicago]

They could have easily put up another couple scores. That was the tenor of the game. Not sure why people think because the opponent called off the dogs that the game was close.

 

The way the offense was (not) playing, this game was not at all close. I am not sure the Chargers would call off the dogs with only a 10 point lead and I am willing to give the D some credit. If the O could show some semblance of competency, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

The expectation ship sailed on McKelvin 5 years ago so you guys can stop trying to deflect criticism from Gilmore.

 

All of that being said, we saw today the difference between Pettine and Schwartz D. Pettine's D put players in position to make game changing plays. McKelvin and Robey thrived in it.

 

Agreed on GIlmore. I myself have been guilty of making excuses for him the first 2 years. His rookie year, I thought he would be real good at press coverage but he kept drawing penalties. My hope was that he was getting used to the NFL’s referees and would get that under control in his soph year. But the soph year was the year of injury excuses. This year, I am done with his general lack of effort and heart. Guy just doesn’t seem like he wants to make plays, as a Fred Jackson would. I went through the same psychological phases with McKelvin and gave up on him but he seemed to do well last year. As of now, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Cockrell activated very soon.

 

As for Schwartz’s D, it has been pretty decent for us this year as evidenced by at least the first two games. If we got better cornerback play, perhaps it would be a more complete unit.

[dave mcbride]

The turning point game in EJ's career may have arrived today.

 

He met an opponent that upset his comfy pocket and forced him to try to make throws he hasn't been very good at and that's how you make a QB lay an egg like that.

 

We saw this kind of performance repeatedly after teams figured out JP, Trent and Fitz.

 

Now it's up to EJ to start making those big boy throws that the defense is giving him so he can free up the LOS and the pocket.

 

I mentioned this elsewhere, but I'm pretty certain that Manuel has not completed a pass in the end zone since the Ravens game last year except for one garbage time, last-second TD to Chris Gragg against the Steelers. Every TD pass has been a dump-off to an RB who ran in the EZ or passes short of the goal line in which the receiver ran it in (a la TJ Graham, who fielded a pass-punt TD from EJ last year against the Jets -- http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2013111700/2013/REG11/jets@bills#menu=gameinfo|contentId%3A0ap2000000282792&tab=videos ). He did complete one EZ TD pass in preseason against a second string squad, but none against a starting defense. When he gets to the EZ, he doesn't play big at all - he's both overly cautious in the endzone area and very inaccurate. And don't get me started on the gutless final set of dump-off throws in sight of the goal line in yesterday's game ...

[hondo in seattle]

So, wait. No one is blaming CJ today? Dude had 25 yards. He is a starting RB and only got 25 yards. Total he had 62 yards from scrimmage? If he was not CJ Spiller he might be a backup on any other team.

 

He isn't even in the top 25 backs for the season.

 

If he is supposed to be this great back, why isn't he running like one?

 

Because:

 

(1) Hackett has no idea how to draw up plays for a scatback like CJ. In his last year with Chan, CJ ran for over 1,000 yards at 6.0 yards per carry. He'll never equal those numbers with Hackett as OC. This year's he's only averaging 4.0 ypc - a drop of 2.0 yards per carry.

 

(2) Our O Line doesn't create holes. They're not bad in pass protection but they suck in run blocking.

[Coach Tuesday]

I mentioned this elsewhere, but I'm pretty certain that Manuel has not completed a pass in the end zone since the Ravens game last year except for one garbage time, last-second TD to Chris Gragg against the Steelers. Every TD pass has been a dump-off to an RB who ran in the EZ or passes short of the goal line in which the receiver ran it in (a la TJ Graham, who fielded a pass-punt TD from EJ last year against the Jets -- http://www.nfl.com/g...2792&tab=videos ). He did complete one EZ TD pass in preseason against a second string squad, but none against a starting defense. When he gets to the EZ, he doesn't play big at all - he's both overly cautious in the endzone area and very inaccurate. And don't get me started on the gutless final set of dump-off throws in sight of the goal line in yesterday's game ...

 

He clearly is afraid to make mistakes, and I'm guessing it's because he's being coached into that mindset. I have this feeling in the pit of my stomach that Marrone and Hackett won't take the training wheels off of EJ unless and until the Bills have been eliminated from playoff contention - that's when they'll let him go out there and wing it. Kind of sad.

[boyst]

Because:

 

(1) Hackett has no idea how to draw up plays for a scatback like CJ. In his last year with Chan, CJ ran for over 1,000 yards at 6.0 yards per carry. He'll never equal those numbers with Hackett as OC. This year's he's only averaging 4.0 ypc - a drop of 2.0 yards per carry.

 

(2) Our O Line doesn't create holes. They're not bad in pass protection but they suck in run blocking.

1 year. 1 year that he actually produced for Gailey, and he's a saint.

 

It is not solely on Spiller, but the best players just go out there and play.

[thebandit27]

Hackett didn't go into panic mode, the Chargers were loading up for the run. And still the Bills ran into near impossible odds a number of times. If EJ makes some throws early it opens up the run game and he needs to throw less passes. That said, they should have been in panic mode the way Schwartz defense was feeding Rivers good looks. The Chargers offense closed up shop for the day after their 8 minute drive to start the 3rd quarter. They could have easily put up another couple scores. That was the tenor of the game. Not sure why people think because the opponent called off the dogs that the game was close.

 

I agree with all of that.

 

The expectation ship sailed on McKelvin 5 years ago so you guys can stop trying to deflect criticism from Gilmore. Leodis had a nice rebound year last year but he was already accepted as a busted first round pick even if he remained a steady player for the back end of his career. Guys drafted where McKelvin and Gilmore were drafted are expected to be able to defend a #2/#3 like Malcolm Floyd or a washout like Donald Brown. The Gilmore hype and excuse factory has shielded him well to this point, but when you play lazy, undisciplined football you deserve to be called out. We know he doesn't have elite cover skills, but this guy is supposed to make up for that with size, strength and competitiveness and he played flat out weak. All of that being said, we saw today the difference between Pettine and Schwartz D. Pettine's D put players in position to make game changing plays. McKelvin and Robey thrived in it. That style plays very well at home as evidenced by early season wins against opponents like Baltimore and Carolina last year. It was more run permissive......but I'd be interested to see what a better overall LB corps would have done with Pettine because his Jets defenses weren't universally bad against the run. Basically, last year the only reliable LB Pettine had was Kiko.

 

I haven't made any excuses for Gilmore. He didn't play well yesterday, and he was 3rd in line for "worst CB performance" was my only point.

 

In a game where Rivers attempts 25 passes, if we're laying a significant portion of the blame at the feet of a player that was targeted 5 times for 3 completions, something is quite amiss IMO.

[dave mcbride]

He clearly is afraid to make mistakes, and I'm guessing it's because he's being coached into that mindset. I have this feeling in the pit of my stomach that Marrone and Hackett won't take the training wheels off of EJ unless and until the Bills have been eliminated from playoff contention - that's when they'll let him go out there and wing it. Kind of sad.

I fear you may be right. If so, they have to change their approach ASAFP and push him to accept that throwing INTs in the EZ in situations like yesterday is OK. With 35-40 seconds to go and at the 25 yard line, you've gotta gun it into the end zone.

[GG]

I fear you may be right. If so, they have to change their approach ASAFP and push him to accept that throwing INTs in the EZ in situations like yesterday is OK. With 35-40 seconds to go and at the 25 yard line, you've gotta gun it into the end zone.

 

Watch Sammy's routes on those calls. He is jogging as if he knows the ball is not coming his way. Don't know if it was supposed to have been an extended pitch & catch practice to Big Mike, but the execution was horrific.

[dave mcbride]

Watch Sammy's routes on those calls. He is jogging as if he knows the ball is not coming his way. Don't know if it was supposed to have been an extended pitch & catch practice to Big Mike, but the execution was horrific.

I'll rewatch tonight.

[Captain Hindsight]

I'm not sure what people were expecting from EJ yesterday. He played exactly as he had the first two weeks. His stats were exactly the same. They didn't ask him to do much and he made plays but he missed some too. Thats who he is right now. He is still young so he can improve yet. He needs to play better though and I don't think anyone can dispute that.

 

The Bills just didn't execute yesterday. Its too bad too because I thought they were going to come back at times yesterday. Penalties killed them yesterday. I hope it wakes the team up. Next week will tell me everything I need to know about this team. How will the leaders respond? Will the come out flat or firing on all cylinders? Next week we find out what this team is made of, Another winnable game on the road.... Who does this team want to be?

[jumbalaya]

Main things wrong with the Bills Offense:

1. EJ Manuel

2. Hackett

 

Hackett builds an offense around hurry-up but relies on a guy that has no giddy-up.

• He misuses Spiller so much, I'd rather see Spiller on a team that puts him a position that plays to his strengths. He is wasting his career here.
  
• Why can't Spiller run downfield and catch a 15 or 20 yard pass? We don't have a QB that can throw a 15 yard pass.
  
• EJ is not a fit for his offense. EJ can't run a two minute offense let alone a regular offense or the hurry up.
  

 

EJ should sit for the year, then, we should cut him in the off-season and forget about him completely.

[GG]

I'm not sure what people were expecting from EJ yesterday. He played exactly as he had the first two weeks. His stats were exactly the same. They didn't ask him to do much and he made plays but he missed some too. Thats who he is right now. He is still young so he can improve yet. He needs to play better though and I don't think anyone can dispute that.

 

The Bills just didn't execute yesterday. Its too bad too because I thought they were going to come back at times yesterday. Penalties killed them yesterday. I hope it wakes the team up. Next week will tell me everything I need to know about this team. How will the leaders respond? Will the come out flat or firing on all cylinders? Next week we find out what this team is made of, Another winnable game on the road.... Who does this team want to be?

 

Yet, they're conducting this experiment during the regular season with the rest of the team trying to win, and they have a QB with training wheels on. How do you think the WRs feel when they're asked to stretch out for a poorly thrown ball to pick up a first down, while the QB falls down two yards short of a first down with nobody on top of him?

[1billsfan]

I fear you may be right. If so, they have to change their approach ASAFP and push him to accept that throwing INTs in the EZ in situations like yesterday is OK. With 35-40 seconds to go and at the 25 yard line, you've gotta gun it into the end zone.

 

Manuel needs to be given a long leash by Marrone to sink or swim with his arm. You do not progress to the next stage until you PROVE IT to opposing defenses that your arm is a THREAT to beat them. The coaches need to tell him it's ok to throw interceptions and they need to mean it. Coaching conservative from here on out is not going to do EJ any favors. If Marrone and Hackett are telling EJ to not take any chances then they're ruining him without giving him a real chance. Because they will never know if Manuel can master the art of burning defenses with his arm until they actually let him do it without fear of reprimand when his interception counts starts to tally up. IMO, if Manuel starts taking real chances, the interceptions vs big plays will even out in time with the added benefit of EJ Manuel being given the proper canvas to prove one way or the other what he has to offer.

[thebandit27]

I'm not sure what people were expecting from EJ yesterday. He played exactly as he had the first two weeks. His stats were exactly the same. They didn't ask him to do much and he made plays but he missed some too. Thats who he is right now. He is still young so he can improve yet. He needs to play better though and I don't think anyone can dispute that.

 

The Bills just didn't execute yesterday. Its too bad too because I thought they were going to come back at times yesterday. Penalties killed them yesterday. I hope it wakes the team up. Next week will tell me everything I need to know about this team. How will the leaders respond? Will the come out flat or firing on all cylinders? Next week we find out what this team is made of, Another winnable game on the road.... Who does this team want to be?

 

It's not about EJ's numbers--what happened yesterday is that he wasn't hitting the key throws the way he did in weeks 1 and 2. There were quite a few plays left out there yesterday--I also noticed that he and the WRs were never on the same page. The throw in the 4th quarter that could've been a TD to a streaking Robert Woods--EJ missed on the throw, but Woods didn't even look for the ball until about 1/4 second before it got there. Something was way off on the offense's execution all around.

[Repulsif]

I think penalties killed good drives, and the offense team.

 

I am the only one who see improvement (much at my surprise) on EJ ?

[Coach Tuesday]

Manuel needs to be given a long leash by Marrone to sink or swim with his arm. You do not progress to the next stage until you PROVE IT to opposing defenses that your arm is a THREAT to beat them. The coaches need to tell him it's ok to throw interceptions and they need to mean it. Coaching conservative from here on out is not going to do EJ any favors. If Marrone and Hackett are telling EJ to not take any chances then they're ruining him without giving him a real chance. Because they will never know if Manuel can master the art of burning defenses with his arm until they actually let him do it without fear of reprimand when his interception counts starts to tally up. IMO, if Manuel starts taking real chances, the interceptions vs big plays will even out in time with the added benefit of EJ Manuel being given the proper canvas to prove one way or the other what he has to offer.

 

At least Whaley seems to get it - he mentioned after the Pittsburgh preseason game that he was encouraged by the interception EJ threw (on the Chandler pass) because it was the kind of stick throw that EJ wouldn't have chanced last year. Well now EJ seems like he's back to playing scared. I guess what we're all saying is that interceptions might actually be a positive sign at this point. I think that's right, and I think Whaley (who is smart and takes the long view) understands that - the question is whether Marrone, Hackett, and EJ understand it. I'm not sure, but they'd better come around soon.

[Dan]

1 year. 1 year that he actually produced for Gailey, and he's a saint.

 

It is not solely on Spiller, but the best players just go out there and play.

I get what you're saying. But, you're neglecting the coaching factor. Good coaches game plan to take the other team's best players out of the game. Bad coaches just line their players up and expect them to beat the man in front of them.

 

This isn't college ball. Every team has great players. All the rah rah in the world isn't going to win you much, you can't just out muscle your opponent. This coaching staff has a huge weapon in CJ Spiller and they're completely misusing him with these draw plays up the middle.

 

CJ is playing well out there. He had at least one great run called back on a hold. He misses a lot of playing time, because the coaches keep taking him off the field. At some point, the coaching staff have to figure out a way to get him more involved in a game, but they've yet to do that other than on kick offs. IMO, it shows a fundamental lack of creativity and ingenuity on their part.