A Few Thougts About The Game, in no particular order.....

[Bill from NYC]

 

 

Last year Gilmore was playing with a cast on his hand due to a broken wrist. This offseason he had hip surgery. He has also been affected by a severe groin injury. What you consider to be "incomplete effort" is he doing his best while playing with a painful and limiting groin problem.

 

As I stated in a prior post the way the rules are being enforced immensely advantaging the receivers over the DBs. This is not excuse making.

 

My friend, you might want to look this over an re-think the last sentence.

[3rdand12]

Gilmore and EJ lost the game for us.

despicable efforts.

 

My friend, you might want to look this over an re-think the last sentence.

Bill you had a very nice thoughful introductory . I am tending to agree with you on your points .

The lyrics were a nice touch also.

: )

[JohnC]

 

 

Agree, and that is a great description. On many of the crucial passes that he does give up, he isn't always flat out destroyed. He is beat by JUST enough for the offensive play to work. The problem is that things like this lose football games.

 

I think that aside from the qb position, the Bills have a better than average roster. It's confusing at times mind you, but there is a lot of talent. That said, with us being shaky at QB, the positional players have to step up more.

 

How are we doing in terms of TOP this season? Not that great? A few plays by Gilmore really could even this out and be a tremendous help to this football team. Better guard play would kick ass but I digress.

 

This Sunday is a big test, no? If Gilmore is any good, one would think that this is a game in which he could surely step up.

 

Let's hope!

 

I agree with you that this team has enough talent to be a (fringe) playoff team. However, I disagree with the basis of your proposition that other units have to step it up to compensate for the lack of qb productivity in order to win. That's not how I see it. Unless the play of our qb is elevated then this team is going to slide downwards as the season advances. Very few teams, especially in the NFL of today with the emphasis on passing, is going to be successful unless at the minimum the qb performs at an adequate level.

 

In yesterday's game EJ threw to his wideouts 21 times. He completed only seven passes to them. In his dink and donk passes to the TE and RBs he was 16 for 18. The percentage seems high but the impact was inconsequential. The point that I am making is unless there is greater output by him the result will be more losses and more boring games. If his level of play can reach the average level then the team can compete. If he continues to flounder in the downfield passing game then the outcome is predictable.

[Big C]

 

 

My friend, you might want to look this over an re-think the last sentence.

 

Forreal. But honestly, if his ailments are that bad, why is he out there?

[JohnC]

 

 

My friend, you might want to look this over an re-think the last sentence.

 

Bill, I'm not sure what your point is. The way the game is being called the DBs are not going to dominate the receivers when they have an elite qb throwing to them, especially when he is not under duress. Seattle might be the only exception where the defensive backfield has the ability to dominate in the passing game. As far as I'm concerned Rivers demonstrated (at least to me) that he is a top tier qb.

 

Our defensive backfield was average to a little less so against the Chargers. They didn't get much help with the pass rush and Rivers made a lot of tough throws. In this game they weren't the main cause for the loss, at least as I saw it.

[JC2002]

I was going to ask if you watched the game, but I don't think it would matter. Yes EJ missed throws, but his receivers cut off routes or were simply in the wrong place. The O line couldn't open anything and when we did manage a play Chandler brought it back. The D simply had no answer on 3rd down or gifted conversions with penalties. Orton is not going to see the light of day and shouldn't, he really is nothing more than a less mobile EJ. The team lost today...not one player, all 53 of them.

 

Orton is miles ahead of EJ as a passer MILES ahead . Orton is not as mobile as EJ heck not even close but the guy can throw a ball and doesn't throw a lot of picks . Brandon marshall set league record in catches in a game with orton throwing to him and while marshall is a beast for any QB . Brandon Lloyd came behind him the following year and orton helped put him in the pro bowl when he was nearly out of the league .

 

I have not given up on EJ but hes missing throws the team flat out needs him to make and so hes needs to start making them . Orton has already proven he can make those throws .

[Bill from NYC]

 

 

Forreal. But honestly, if his ailments are that bad, why is he out there?

 

Good question. I was thinking the same thing.

[3rdand12]

Orton is miles ahead of EJ as a passer MILES ahead . Orton is not as mobile as EJ heck not even close but the guy can throw a ball and doesn't throw a lot of picks . Brandon marshall set league record in catches in a game with orton throwing to him and while marshall is a beast for any QB . Brandon Lloyd came behind him the following year and orton helped put him in the pro bowl when he was nearly out of the league .

 

I have not given up on EJ but hes missing throws the team flat out needs him to make and so hes needs to start making them . Orton has already proven he can make those throws .

yes

[Coach Tuesday]

 

 

Last year Gilmore was playing with a cast on his hand due to a broken wrist. This offseason he had hip surgery. He has also been affected by a severe groin injury. What you consider to be "incomplete effort" is he doing his best while playing with a painful and limiting groin problem.

 

As I stated in a prior post the way the rules are being enforced immensely advantaging the receivers over the DBs. This is not excuse making. It is a major factor in all the games. Rivers is a top tier qb who demonstrated his high qb rankings by making a lot of high quality throws. Considering the lack of pass pressure and the way that Rivers quickly got rid of the ball to the right option I don't believe that our DBs played as poorly as some are portraying.

 

The difference is this game was mostly due to the stark discrepancy between the teams' qbs. Of coures there were other factos such as the poor play of our OL. But it's my view that the play of our DBs was not a major factor in the outcome of this game.

 

John, honestly, he looks out of shape to me.

[JohnC]

 

 

John, honestly, he looks out of shape to me.

 

Without a doubt he is not at his peak conditioning point. He had hip surgery this offseason, certainly affecting his training program. He has also had a lingering groin problem.

 

Last year he played with a cast on his wrist, essentially playing with one arm. So it is unfair to say that he isn't committed and not giving his best effort as others have claimed or suggested.

[TPS]

 

 

Oh, would you please stop making sense, Joe?

yes, hopefully after tonight's game people have a little more perspective. The Bills are a good team. SD is a very good team, and I would not get against them being in the Super Bowl barring more injuries. They are a well coached team.

Buffalo beat a good Chicago team and a Miami team that beat the Pats. The AFCE is up for grabs and the Bills have as good a chance as any team to win that. They need to at least split the next two road games, then beat pats at home.

Re EJ, as GG said, the game plans are based on keeping it simple for a young qb with training wheels on. Can't beat very good teams that way, but you can beat at least 28 of them...

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

Unless the play of our qb is elevated then this team is going to slide downwards as the season advances. Very few teams, especially in the NFL of today with the emphasis on passing, is going to be successful unless at the minimum the qb performs at an adequate level.

 

In yesterday's game EJ threw to his wideouts 21 times. He completed only seven passes to them. In his dink and donk passes to the TE and RBs he was 16 for 18. The percentage seems high but the impact was inconsequential. The point that I am making is unless there is greater output by him the result will be more losses and more boring games. If his level of play can reach the average level then the team can compete. If he continues to flounder in the downfield passing game then the outcome is predictable.

 

That's how I see it.

 

Orton is miles ahead of EJ as a passer MILES ahead.

 

I have not given up on EJ but hes missing throws the team flat out needs him to make and so hes needs to start making them . Orton has already proven he can make those throws .

 

All of our talent is aging & being wasted without competent QB play. This is why Miami is now flirting with the idea of Matt Moore over Tannehill, and why RGIII will not simply slide back into that Washington QB job. He got Brady'd (Bradied?), and Gruden will not take Cousins off that field unless there is an injury situation.

 

EJ is the king of the garbage time stat, compiled long after the game outcome is in question. But as JohnC points out, even his stats hide the fact that he offers no real down the field threat to a defense. Defenses can give up the underneath chinks in the armor all day with EJ; they don't truly need to have much respect for his arm. Other than making sure guys don't get behind them for a sideline rainbow, he never tests them.

 

If he ever starts stepping into his throws, he might have a chance to complete balls in the 15+ yard range without hanging people out to dry. Until we start to see that, he will only be an athletic Trent Edwards.

 

In my opinion, the ball Sammy quit on is such a telling indictment of EJ. #14 owned up to it admirably, but I do understand why he did it at the time.

Edited September 23, 2014 by HankBulloughMellencamp

[Agent 91]

 

whats missing in the Gilmore-bashing from "just draft fat guys" crowd, is that we could have had the best DB in the business the year before in Patrick Peterson but took Dareus instead. Had we taken Peterson when we should have, we could have taken Poe the next year for DT. Peteron + Poe blows the doors off Gilmore + Dareus. Classic case of how not taking BPA costs a team dearly

 

Let me preface this by saying I'm in no way a Dareus fan. But he was the consensus bpa at 3 from most mocks and a few experts. Isn't that the year of AJ Green and or Julio Jones too... AND my wish list pick that year. JJ Watt

[BillsVet]

Without a doubt he is not at his peak conditioning point. He had hip surgery this offseason, certainly affecting his training program. He has also had a lingering groin problem.

 

So many players undergo off-season surgery and to say that because Gilmore did and it affected his conditioning to this degree is a cop out. He's got 2 years under his belt playing in the NFL with, one would think, NFL staff who can advise and guide him in conditioning and returning from injuries.

 

The pick is trending toward bust status early in his third pro season.

[GG]

Re EJ, as GG said, the game plans are based on keeping it simple for a young qb with training wheels on. Can't beat very good teams that way, but you can beat at least 28 of them...

 

I wouldn't go that far. I'd say this Bills team is in the middle of the pack based on current QB play. With better QB play they should be a playoff team.

[xsoldier54]

yes, hopefully after tonight's game people have a little more perspective. The Bills are a good team. SD is a very good team, and I would not get against them being in the Super Bowl barring more injuries. They are a well coached team.

Buffalo beat a good Chicago team and a Miami team that beat the Pats. The AFCE is up for grabs and the Bills have as good a chance as any team to win that. They need to at least split the next two road games, then beat pats at home.

Re EJ, as GG said, the game plans are based on keeping it simple for a young qb with training wheels on. Can't beat very good teams that way, but you can beat at least 28 of them...

This week will be a true test. How well can they bounce back? I'm hoping that they can put this one behind them and come out strong in Houston, but losses like this one where you are completely overmatched and dominated have a tendency to affect a team's confidence and they tend to linger. Hoping for them to be hot early on in Houston and build on that.

[GG]

This week will be a true test. How well can they bounce back? I'm hoping that they can put this one behind them and come out strong in Houston, but losses like this one where you are completely overmatched and dominated have a tendency to affect a team's confidence and they tend to linger. Hoping for them to be hot early on in Houston and build on that.

 

Last year, EJ was decent in bouncing back from heartbreaking losses early in the season. The Texans game will be a huge test going against a team with a monster pass rush and questions about chemistry with his receiving corps. If he fails it badly, I think Marrone & Co. will have to seriously consider a switch.

[Fan in Chicago]

Good question. I was thinking the same thing.

 

I stated this in another thread, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Cockrell activated soon. Whaley's picks have been by and large very good and I am willing to insert the kid in the game and see what he brings.

[thebandit27]

Bandit, I trust that by now that you know that I value our dialogue. That said, I must strongly disagree with you.

 

You probably know more about corners than me but when I evaluate them, I don't go by pure stats. I look at the passes that they gave up. Were they TDs? Were they key first downs? Gilmore gives up plays like this consistently.

As far as Gilmore on running plays yesterday, he was flat out disgraceful and this is not hyperbole.

 

I didn't love the Spiller selection either, but he took over the Miami game, and I was here singing his praises.

 

Imo you don't THINK you are doing it, but it seem as if you really are part of the Gilmore excuse machine. He was a # freaking 10 selection in an NFL Draft.

It's time for him to take over a game and win one for us, let alone not stink up the field.

 

Be well and GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

No need to worry Bill, we have our common understanding.

 

I agree that the "criticality" (I think that's what we might call it) of completions allowed is important to take into account. That's true that a good number of those completions that Gilmore allows in his coverage are 1st downs or TDs. I would indeed like him to improve in that area.

 

I'm torn on BADOL's point about competitive fire, as I'm not sure how to reconcile Gilmore's supposed (and I don't use the term to demean the idea) lack of compete with his fiesty, physical style of play that sees his best games (at least in terms of coverage) come against the bigger WRs of the league.

 

I suppose it bears watching in future weeks. I usually try to watch every game in the NFL every week, but perhaps in the coming weeks I'll forgo a few games and do a focused review of Buffalo's DBs to provide some context for the discussion (and maybe I can couple it with a focused review of a team like Seattle for comparison).

 

Your last paragraph sums it up.

 

Had he completed a few throws, it would've made a huge difference in the outcome of the game. (Particularly the one to Woods that looked like a TD early in the 4th had it been an accurate pass) The game reminded me of the Steelers game last year. Very boring as we were doing next to nothing offensively because EJ was so inept.

 

IMO, this was the biggest difference from weeks 1/2 to this week...EJ didn't hit enough of the key throws he needed to in order to create room for the rest of the offense.

 

Last year, EJ was decent in bouncing back from heartbreaking losses early in the season. The Texans game will be a huge test going against a team with a monster pass rush and questions about chemistry with his receiving corps. If he fails it badly, I think Marrone & Co. will have to seriously consider a switch.

 

I think this is the most encouraging thought: following his major stinkers in 2013 (at Jets, at Pit, at TB), EJ was 3-0 against Baltimore (home), Jets (home), and Jax (road), respectively. The Jets and Jags games, in particular, were some of his strongest work as a rookie.

 

If he can bounce back in similar fashion, I think they'll be alright.

[HamSandwhich]

1) I want to sing big time praises to Aaron Williams. Not only were his numbers good (9 tackles/5 assists), but he gave everything he had. He sacrificed his body on a tackle late in the 2nd quarter and came back. Kudos to you Mr. Williams.

 

2) If Spiller could see a hole ala Thurman, he would be an all time great. I mean this. There was a play in the 2nd quarter where he had a decent gain on a reception and he went the wrong way. With good vision, he could have been gone for a TD.

 

3) The second quarter was awful, no? EJ missed Watkins who was wide open and might have gone in for a TD. More to come on EJ.....

 

4) Dareus played his ass off today, better than anyone else on the DL. I loved his pursuit, and he never looked gassed, despite the defense being on the short end of Time of Possession once again.

 

5) Nobody on the OL played well today. That's right, nobody, including Cordy Glenn. Pears was particularly awful from what I could see (along with Wood), but having said that, EJ took WAY too much time to make decisions.

 

6) Shaking in the garden, the fear within you grows.

Here there may be roses, to punch you in the nose.

Twist their arms around you, slap you till you cry,

Wrap you in their sweet perfume and love you till you die,

When push comes to shove,

you're afraid of love.

 

7) I can't say enough good things about Fred Jackson. The 3rd quarter TD pass was a sight to behold (as were his stiff arms throughout the football game), and btw, Watkins threw a really nice block on that TD.

 

8) Hey, was I seeing things? Did Gilmore get a facemask penalty AND get injured on the same play? Seriously, he was a liability today vs. the pass and even the run. At one point I was hoping they would take him out. It is way, WAY more important for the Buffalo Bills to win football games than it is to pretend that Gilmore is good, let alone a "shutdown corner," which is laughable.

 

9) I am not going to say that Mario provided much pass pressure because he did not. But, he did very well against the run.

 

10) The bottom line is that EJ sucked today. He waited to long to throw, AND to take off and run.

 

11) Am I the only one who is sick of these plays where the Bills gain yards and come up a yard or so short of a first down? SOB, that happens WAY too often and pises me off!!!!!

 

12) EJ goes down just a bit too easy for someone his size, especially on running plays.

 

13) 11 penalties for 101 yds, is totally unacceptable.

 

14) This post is not about throwing in the towel. I don't throw in f%#(&^g towels, but this was a very poor outing and we need to get WAY better in order to compete.

 

15) GO BILS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

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